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Something the coalition hasn't told uni student... Watch

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    (Original post by Quady)
    Source?

    Or rather than ask you to dig out sources for all those countries could you show that state spending on education is decreasing in Italy?
    Sources in front of me are euobserver.com and Bloomberg Business Week.
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    (Original post by Quady)
    Who said they were?

    Is this like the 'interest won't be 9%' thing, where you claim people have said stuff when they haven't...?
    I was responding to posts earlier in the thread by lowprofile at 16.13 and 16.20
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    (Original post by Quady)
    How does changing indexation from RPI to CPI to reduce cost mean 'genuine claimants' have nothing to worry about?
    Hello again, just seen this post. It depends on the benefit in question, people who are too ill to work will still receive their benefit, people who are fit to work should work. I don't think people on unemployment benefit should receive more than people in low paid work.
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    (Original post by yawn)
    Whilst they strive to defend their intention to raise uni fees to £9,000 as a starting point for further hugh increases by repeating that the fees aren't payable upfront, nor until the student is working and in receipt of £21,000 pa, what they haven't said is how this debt is going to impact on the future of the student.

    As you know, to be able to obtain loans to buy homes, furniture, cars etc. one has to be able to demonstrate that one has sufficient means to cover the loan plus interest payments from one's salary.

    If one is encumbered by tens of thousands of pounds worth of debt already (uni fees) which will take decades to repay (for all those except for those from wealthy families who can pay off the debt for them) how will banks and credit agencies view the existing debt when considering whether to load the former student with additional, crippling debts?

    I think we're going to see this generation being denied the wherewithal to buy their own homes, new furniture, cars and related costs...in fact, many commodities that our parents take for granted.

    We should be challenging the coalition on whether they are going to change credit and bank loan laws to accommodate a debt-burdened generation.
    Considering the lending decisions for these commodities are normally based on your credit score; I don't see how the student loan will affect it seeing as:

    1. its not listed on your credit score.
    2. its taken from your payslip before you even receive any money so you cant default.
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    (Original post by specialk_698)
    Considering the lending decisions for these commodities are normally based on your credit score; I don't see how the student loan will affect it seeing as:

    1. its not listed on your credit score.
    2. its taken from your payslip before you even receive any money so you cant default.
    What what number will be used to base the earnings multiple?
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    (Original post by Blondshavemorefun)
    Hello again, just seen this post. It depends on the benefit in question, people who are too ill to work will still receive their benefit, people who are fit to work should work. I don't think people on unemployment benefit should receive more than people in low paid work.
    How about 'state pension' then?

    ESA/IB/DLA?
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    Student debt is not taken into account when applying for a mortgage.
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    (Original post by innerhollow)
    However, the current loan repayments work almost identically to a graduate tax. I doubt financial institutions would take student "debt" directly into account.
    How can they not take it into account if they ask for proof of earnings.

    If someone with a student loan earns £30k but has a personal loan with repayments of £100/month why should they be penalised for a mortgage when they have higher disposable income than someone else on £30k with a student loan?

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    (Original post by Reems)
    Student debt is not taken into account when applying for a mortgage.
    So banks don't ask for proof of earnings?
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    (Original post by Quady)
    How can they not take it into account if they ask for proof of earnings.

    If someone with a student loan earns £30k but has a personal loan with repayments of £100/month why should they be penalised for a mortgage when they have higher disposable income than someone else on £30k with a student loan?


    What? :confused:

    I mean, I think you're saying something about how student loands reduce your take-home income so you are less able to handle repayments, but I can't follow the actual example in your post.
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    (Original post by Quady)
    What what number will be used to base the earnings multiple?
    I'm assuming you're referring to a mortgage. Well it depends generally on your gross annual income but also affordability criteria. Your point is pretty irrelevant as people don't live standardised lives.
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    (Original post by stefk93)
    Right, unless your going to oxbridge or something you will be paying £6k instead of £3k
    Rubbish. Give me one reason why other unis won't charge £9000 too?
    They won't want to because it will make them look worse than the unis charging more.
    Labour tried to use the free market argument when they introduced top up fees, and have we seen any uni charge less than the the £3000 maximum? No.

    I do however disagree with the original post in this thread. Although it is a debt by the definition of the word, it works very differently to "normal" debt. It is more like a tax if anything. It won't affect anyones ability to get credit.

    I still don't agree with the increase and the funding cuts though.

    And those comparing the UK to the US really need to have their heads looked at. For a start American wages are generally higher than ours, so there is a greater incentive for poorer people to go to uni. Secondly, the cost of living over there is a lot cheaper than here. Also, from what I understand, the only reason the American system kind of works is because the universities can afford to give huge scholarships and bursaries to the poorer students. We could not do that here as universities are not that rich (ignoring some of the Oxbridge colleges).


    (Original post by Blondshavemorefun)
    How are public sector workers the most vunerable in society. These welfare reforms are long overdue. Genuine claimants have nothing to worry about, people who can work should work, end of.
    Try telling that to people who are having their disability allowance reviewed by non medical people who may not know ANYTHING about that persons condition?
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    (Original post by WelshBluebird)
    I do however disagree with the original post in this thread. Although it is a debt by the definition of the word, it works very differently to "normal" debt. It is more like a tax if anything. It won't affect anyones ability to get credit.
    So earnings multiples have nothing to do with rate rates?

    ie if the basic rate of income tax was doubled to 40% bank lending criteria would remain the same?
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    (Original post by WelshBluebird)
    Rubbish. Give me one reason why other unis won't charge £9000 too?
    They won't want to because it will make them look worse than the unis charging more.
    Labour tried to use the free market argument when they introduced top up fees, and have we seen any uni charge less than the the £3000 maximum? No.

    I do however disagree with the original post in this thread. Although it is a debt by the definition of the word, it works very differently to "normal" debt. It is more like a tax if anything. It won't affect anyones ability to get credit.

    I still don't agree with the increase and the funding cuts though.

    And those comparing the UK to the US really need to have their heads looked at. For a start American wages are generally higher than ours, so there is a greater incentive for poorer people to go to uni. Secondly, the cost of living over there is a lot cheaper than here. Also, from what I understand, the only reason the American system kind of works is because the universities can afford to give huge scholarships and bursaries to the poorer students. We could not do that here as universities are not that rich (ignoring some of the Oxbridge colleges).




    Try telling that to people who are having their disability allowance reviewed by non medical people who may not know ANYTHING about that persons condition?
    They're only allowed to charge 9,000 in exceptional circumstances, so Oxford and Cambridge probably will be able to, other ones will have to charge less.

    I did see what you said on the dailymail website the other day and it's frankly rubbish, I believe the prices will still the checked by the government.
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    With so many students willing to pay £9000 a year for uni, I think we should increase it to £33,000 a year and get it back by increaseing graduate taxes.
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    (Original post by Lewis :D)
    They're only allowed to charge 9,000 in exceptional circumstances, so Oxford and Cambridge probably will be able to, other ones will have to charge less.

    I did see what you said on the dailymail website the other day and it's frankly rubbish, I believe the prices will still the checked by the government.
    Its not exceptional circumstances. I don't think is totally decided yet, but its along the lines of they can charge £9k as long as they give more financial support to lower income students.

    Again I ask, where were the unis charging less than £3000 for the last 5 years?
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    (Original post by Lewis :D)
    They're only allowed to charge 9,000 in exceptional circumstances, so Oxford and Cambridge probably will be able to, other ones will have to charge less.
    Where in the Act does it say that? Presumably it must define what would constitute 'exceptional circumstances'.
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    (Original post by WelshBluebird)
    Again I ask, where were the unis charging less than £3000 for the last 5 years?
    Greenwich and Leeds Met.
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    (Original post by WelshBluebird)
    Its not exceptional circumstances. I don't think is totally decided yet, but its along the lines of they can charge £9k as long as they give more financial support to lower income students.

    Again I ask, where were the unis charging less than £3000 for the last 5 years?
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-11483638

    Universities Minister David Willetts says universities will only be allowed to charge fees of £9,000 in "exceptional circumstances", which he said might mean if they had high teaching costs, or if a university was offering an intensive two-year course.

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    (Original post by Quady)
    Greenwich and Leeds Met.
    As far as I can see they are charging £3290 a year.
    I do remember a couple of unis charging less than £3000 for the first year after the fees were introduced, so perhaps that is what you are talking about. I also remember that the fees pretty quickly were increased upto the £3k max in those cases.

    (Original post by Lewis :D)
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-11483638

    Universities Minister David Willetts says universities will only be allowed to charge fees of £9,000 in "exceptional circumstances", which he said might mean if they had high teaching costs, or if a university was offering an intensive two-year course.

    From the same link:

    Universities wanting to charge more than £6,000 would have to undertake measures, such as offering bursaries, summer schools and outreach programmes, to encourage students from poorer backgrounds to apply.
 
 
 
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