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Official 2011 Six Nations Thread Watch

  • View Poll Results: Winner of 2011 Nations
    Ireland Title
    3
    2.54%
    Ireland Grand Slam
    9
    7.63%
    England Title
    32
    27.12%
    England Grand Slam
    31
    26.27%
    Wales Title
    6
    5.08%
    Wales Grand Slam
    5
    4.24%
    Scotland Title
    8
    6.78%
    Scotland Grand Slam
    2
    1.69%
    France Title
    11
    9.32%
    France Grand Slam
    4
    3.39%
    Italy Title
    2
    1.69%
    Italy Grand Slam
    5
    4.24%

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    (Original post by pinkpenguin)
    John Inverdale (and the general 6N coverage so far) is annoying the **** out of me already.

    'Is this the second step to an England GS?' 'England should win quite comfortably' 'Team to beat' and all this other BS is totally irritating to the non-English fan.

    England weren't that good last week. A frankly rather stop start Wales came very close to winning. And Italy were great. So STFU and give the Italians a fighting chance, or at least stop irritating the hell out of the rest of the UK.

    Rant over.
    This, we were really poor last weak, and England average. The media seem to love overhyping England in all sports. However can see England winning this well. Feel they have a bit too much quality. Still come on Italy, showing some promise, but sometimes they look a bit clueless.
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    (Original post by pinkpenguin)
    John Inverdale (and the general 6N coverage so far) is annoying the **** out of me already.

    'Is this the second step to an England GS?' 'England should win quite comfortably' 'Team to beat' and all this other BS is totally irritating to the non-English fan.

    England weren't that good last week. A frankly rather stop start Wales came very close to winning. And Italy were great. So STFU and give the Italians a fighting chance, or at least stop irritating the hell out of the rest of the UK.

    Rant over.
    Agreed. Although England are playing exceptionally well. They're taking Italy apart. Although Italy aren't helping themselves. (It hurts to say this as a Scot!)

    Guscott is going to be insufferable.

    On a side note, Gray is officially out for Scotland.
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    Fair play to England - looking seriously fluid. Youngs + Flood is working really well. Still think Hape is a waste of space (crappier version of Tindall) and you could do with another strike centre, though.

    Italy's tackling has been almost offensively bad. This 10 has run away from about 5 tackles.

    Scotland to beat Wales later!

    EDIT: And here we are again. Massive wtf of a match from Scotland and Wales, and Davies is annoying the hell out of me. Stop with your ridiculous outrage. STFU. Ugh.
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    What the hell has happened to Scotland?! I'm so angry right now! 2 man advantage and still could not make it count. Far too many knock ons and i wish that they would stop kicking the ball away. And as i type this Dan Parks just makes a huge mess of a kick.

    Shocking from Scotland.
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    Everyone accepts that O'Gara is an awful tackler - but I'm not being funny, James Hook is a **** defensive 10 too. He's missed at least 4 tackles so far, which is probably not far away from ROG's missed tackle count.

    It's just more obvious when ROG gets boomed off than when Hook slips off a tackle.
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    No idea what happened with Scotland up at Murrayfield. If I was gonna predict that socreline beforehand, it would have been the other way round. All I can really say was too many Scottish handling errors and wayward passes, and some uncharacteristically good defence from us. Hook had a half decent game at 10 and showed good vision in attack, but his tactical kicking was a joke, and his defence v. shakey. I would be very wary if he was our 10 for the WC. Warburton, Lydiate and Ryan were absolutely immense.
    Still, Scotland proved last week they can cut defences and more than hold their own against quality opposition, and someone has to routinely stop the England grand slam train.
    Poorn game - I'll take the win though.
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    (Original post by pinkpenguin)
    Everyone accepts that O'Gara is an awful tackler - but I'm not being funny, James Hook is a **** defensive 10 too. He's missed at least 4 tackles so far, which is probably not far away from ROG's missed tackle count.

    It's just more obvious when ROG gets boomed off than when Hook slips off a tackle.
    Difference between O'Gara and Hook is that every team in the world knows O'Gara is the weak point and go for him. It was hilariously bad when France a few years ago just ran at him and broke through nearly every time. Hook on the other hand manages to not look overly bad at it so no one really picks up on him being the weak point.

    Oh, how I wish O'Gara was starting tomorrow. Let's hope Sexton repays Kidney's favour.

    Scotland and Wales were a mess today. Scotland should've made so much more of their two man advantage than a measly three points. Was pathetic. Wales got lucky more than they actually played better. England played beautifully today, compared to last week or any other time I've seen them play, really. Italy were ****e and after their impressive play last week, I felt really sorry for them.
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    (Original post by Hylean)
    Difference between O'Gara and Hook is that every team in the world knows O'Gara is the weak point and go for him. It was hilariously bad when France a few years ago just ran at him and broke through nearly every time. Hook on the other hand manages to not look overly bad at it so no one really picks up on him being the weak point.

    Oh, how I wish O'Gara was starting tomorrow. Let's hope Sexton repays Kidney's favour.

    Scotland and Wales were a mess today. Scotland should've made so much more of their two man advantage than a measly three points. Was pathetic. Wales got lucky more than they actually played better. England played beautifully today, compared to last week or any other time I've seen them play, really. Italy were ****e and after their impressive play last week, I felt really sorry for them.
    James Hook is NOT a **** defensive 10. As an Ospreys supporter who's been watching him for years I'd actually say its a strong point of his. With his lack of game time there this has suffered - something that will only recover with time. Look at Gavin Henson's return. In his prime he was one of the most creative centers I have ever seen - a skill only matched by his solid defense (He was Wales' back line defensive captain). Now he's back his defensive positioning is off, and he still isn't 100% in the tackle. The point I'm trying to make is that defensive play at 10 is not something that will return to James straight away.

    Wales v Scotland:
    For the first 20 minutes I thought that Wales looked better than they have done since 2008. Their carriers Ryan Jones and Jamie Roberts constantly smashed through the Scotts, running straight lines, creating space and momentum which was converted into points. Whenever the back line got the ball they went forwards, not laterally, all looking dangerous. This however was to change - two sin bins meant we had to defend for 15 minutes (which we did so to great effect) but we never recovered from this period. At half time Gatland should of said 'Right they can't score against 13 men, lets put this so bed'. Instead, our ball carriers disappeared. Jamie Roberts faded back into anonymity and Ryan Jones only effective in defense. A scrappy game then followed, Scotland looked frankly awful, a better team would have taken advantage of Wales' collapse. If Wales are to beat France, they need to (I've lost count of how many times i've said this) play for the whole 80 minutes.

    Italy v England:
    For the first 10 minutes Italy put on a valiant display, although conceding a try due to uncharacteristic poor defense. Ashton once again being a complete prick and driving over as some sort of mockery - if you're going to do that do it against a southern hemisphere team. Why gloat against a young international side still in development - thats like beating up a kid three years below and then telling all your mates how hard you are later. Rugby has an ethos of respect, we listen to the referee's etc, show respect to the opposition, have friendly banter with the other teams fans - Aston doesn't share this. As an England player who can score tries week in week out, due to his superb supporting display rather than creativity, he needs to get himself sorted. He's going to be a role model and none of us would be pleased if the next generation of players acted like footballers.

    Anyway rant over, on with the game. Italy's poor defense continued and England took advantage. Unlike Wales, England never looked like stopping, continually griding away - one of Martin Johnson's stereotypical traits. Ben Youngs and Flood look brilliant together, best half back pairing in the Northern Hemisphere at the moment. England are definitely up there with France to win the Six Nations - if anything they have the upper hand with a solid defense. France conceded three tries to Scotland who failed to scratch Wales.
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    (Original post by OneInSolidarity)
    James Hook is NOT a **** defensive 10. As an Ospreys supporter who's been watching him for years I'd actually say its a strong point of his. With his lack of game time there this has suffered - something that will only recover with time. Look at Gavin Henson's return. In his prime he was one of the most creative centers I have ever seen - a skill only matched by his solid defense (He was Wales' back line defensive captain). Now he's back his defensive positioning is off, and he still isn't 100% in the tackle. The point I'm trying to make is that defensive play at 10 is not something that will return to James straight away.
    What he was doesn't count for ****. What he is is all that matters. He may have been a good defensive tackler before, but now he isn't. Hopefully that will change for him, like, but you can't go "he's great cause of how he used to be" when he clearly showed he wasn't today.
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    (Original post by Hylean)
    What he was doesn't count for ****. What he is is all that matters. He may have been a good defensive tackler before, but now he isn't. Hopefully that will change for him, like, but you can't go "he's great cause of how he used to be" when he clearly showed he wasn't today.
    I didn't say that, I said it's something that will come back after time - having moved through the backs myself defensive play is completely different at each one. At fly half you have to deal with big ball carriers crashing through while at inside center you half to also deal with the backs creative moves.
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    1. England - unfortunately
    2. France
    3. Wales/Ireland
    4. Wales/Ireland
    5. Scotland
    6. Italy

    ^I think
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    (Original post by Howellsy)
    1. England - unfortunately
    2. France
    3. Wales/Ireland
    4. Wales/Ireland
    5. Scotland
    6. Italy

    ^I think
    1. England/France
    2. France/England
    3. Wales/Ireland
    4. Wales/Ireland
    5. Scotland
    6. Italy

    Pretty similar, selfishly hoping that Ireland don't recover from the near upset at Italy tbh ;D
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    For all the England fans out there, how great was it to see Wilkinson rolling back the years when he came off the bench late on against Italy? Forget his creative ability and sheer consistency from the kicking tee - I'm referring to his magnificent try-preventing hit. It does make me rue his unfortunate injuries yet again but his dynamism at fly half as both an attacker and a defender over the last decade is incomparable in northern hemisphere rugby. Ronan O'Gara could only dream of such tackling!
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    (Original post by OneInSolidarity)
    James Hook is NOT a **** defensive 10. As an Ospreys supporter who's been watching him for years I'd actually say its a strong point of his. With his lack of game time there this has suffered - something that will only recover with time. Look at Gavin Henson's return. In his prime he was one of the most creative centers I have ever seen - a skill only matched by his solid defense (He was Wales' back line defensive captain). Now he's back his defensive positioning is off, and he still isn't 100% in the tackle. The point I'm trying to make is that defensive play at 10 is not something that will return to James straight away.
    Lack of gametime at 10 is not an excuse.

    He's been playing centre or fullback for the season FFS. They are far more defensive than 10. If he was making tackles he shouldn't have (ie 8 pick ups etc.), then that is the fault of the Welsh defensive patterns. But it still doesn't take away from the fact that he was fluffing off tackles left right and centre yesterday.

    Wales were running a blitz defense, meaning everyone was making straight up head on tackles, exactly the same across the whole backline. He has no excuse to miss them.

    Don't get me wrong, I think Hook is a superb player (as I think O'Gara is), but his defence was useless yesterday. And the Scots were hardly ambitious with their running :rolleyes:
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    hangin.com
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    (Original post by pinkpenguin)
    Lack of gametime at 10 is not an excuse.

    He's been playing centre or fullback for the season FFS. They are far more defensive than 10. If he was making tackles he shouldn't have (ie 8 pick ups etc.), then that is the fault of the Welsh defensive patterns. But it still doesn't take away from the fact that he was fluffing off tackles left right and centre yesterday.

    Wales were running a blitz defense, meaning everyone was making straight up head on tackles, exactly the same across the whole backline. He has no excuse to miss them.

    Don't get me wrong, I think Hook is a superb player (as I think O'Gara is), but his defence was useless yesterday. And the Scots were hardly ambitious with their running :rolleyes:
    I'm failing to see what I wrote that is making everyone think that I am denying/excusing his poor defensive performance. I just stated that on form and with practice he is a relatively strong defensive 10, unlike O'gara whom Shane Williams could run over, and that with time his defensive play will return.

    You'd be suprised at how different each position is. When I was playing fullback rather than inside centre the players had much more space to build up speed, meaning you had to tackle a fast moving player. I found this much tougher than at 12.

    Also, he's only played fullback once this season - against England.
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    (Original post by pinkpenguin)
    John Inverdale (and the general 6N coverage so far) is annoying the **** out of me already.

    'Is this the second step to an England GS?' 'England should win quite comfortably' 'Team to beat' and all this other BS is totally irritating to the non-English fan.

    England weren't that good last week. A frankly rather stop start Wales came very close to winning. And Italy were great. So STFU and give the Italians a fighting chance, or at least stop irritating the hell out of the rest of the UK.

    Rant over.
    While I do think they go overboard a little bit, this was a game at home to Italy, so the analysts are likely to make comments about England winning it quite comfortably. As for the England GS, that was a question, not an expectation. Before Ireland, France and Wales matches when they'd won a couple and seemed to be in good form, they'd often ask the same question of them. Though this year, I (and I think quite a few people) would be pretty shocked if any home nation except England won the GS. And if Ireland beat France today, I bet they'll be talking about the Ireland England game as a potential GS decider. Plus the vast majority of BBC viewers will be England fans, and would find a forced non-supporting a bit offputting. Hence why they have Welsh, Scottish and Irish analysts there to provide coverage from other sides. But in a match of any of the home nations against Italy or France, you'd expect the BBC to be supporting the home nation.

    I do think they overegg the England team (as you say, they didn't play exceptionally in the first game at all) as they do with the England football team. But I don't think it's inappropriate for the BBC commentary and discussions to be held from a position of realising that the vast majority of viewers will be England fans, especially in a game against Italy. Were it a game against one of the other home nations I'd expect to have people who support both sides in the studio (as they do).

    (Original post by dannymccs)
    For all the England fans out there, how great was it to see Wilkinson rolling back the years when he came off the bench late on against Italy? Forget his creative ability and sheer consistency from the kicking tee - I'm referring to his magnificent try-preventing hit. It does make me rue his unfortunate injuries yet again but his dynamism at fly half as both an attacker and a defender over the last decade is incomparable in northern hemisphere rugby. Ronan O'Gara could only dream of such tackling!
    But this was always his strongest point, and he never really lost it. There's no better defensive 10. However I've still yet to see much creativity from him. Not that he's a bad player at all, everyone has a weaker area and his defense and kicking are superb, but it's a style of play I'm glad England are getting out of.

    For the last decade or so, England have been great in defense and kicked superbly, but scored few tries and had few moments of flair or brilliance. Starting with France at the end of the 6N last year, that seemed to change, as yoy had Youngs, Ashton, Foden, etc. coming into the team. And much to my surprise, Flood has found a creative game.

    It's great to see Wilkinson playing well and showcasing what he always did superbly. That tackle was a monster. But I wouldn't praise his creativity.
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    (Original post by OneInSolidarity)
    James Hook is NOT a **** defensive 10. As an Ospreys supporter who's been watching him for years I'd actually say its a strong point of his. With his lack of game time there this has suffered - something that will only recover with time. Look at Gavin Henson's return. In his prime he was one of the most creative centers I have ever seen - a skill only matched by his solid defense (He was Wales' back line defensive captain). Now he's back his defensive positioning is off, and he still isn't 100% in the tackle. The point I'm trying to make is that defensive play at 10 is not something that will return to James straight away.

    Wales v Scotland:
    For the first 20 minutes I thought that Wales looked better than they have done since 2008. Their carriers Ryan Jones and Jamie Roberts constantly smashed through the Scotts, running straight lines, creating space and momentum which was converted into points. Whenever the back line got the ball they went forwards, not laterally, all looking dangerous. This however was to change - two sin bins meant we had to defend for 15 minutes (which we did so to great effect) but we never recovered from this period. At half time Gatland should of said 'Right they can't score against 13 men, lets put this so bed'. Instead, our ball carriers disappeared. Jamie Roberts faded back into anonymity and Ryan Jones only effective in defense. A scrappy game then followed, Scotland looked frankly awful, a better team would have taken advantage of Wales' collapse. If Wales are to beat France, they need to (I've lost count of how many times i've said this) play for the whole 80 minutes.

    Italy v England:
    For the first 10 minutes Italy put on a valiant display, although conceding a try due to uncharacteristic poor defense. Ashton once again being a complete prick and driving over as some sort of mockery - if you're going to do that do it against a southern hemisphere team. Why gloat against a young international side still in development - thats like beating up a kid three years below and then telling all your mates how hard you are later. Rugby has an ethos of respect, we listen to the referee's etc, show respect to the opposition, have friendly banter with the other teams fans - Aston doesn't share this. As an England player who can score tries week in week out, due to his superb supporting display rather than creativity, he needs to get himself sorted. He's going to be a role model and none of us would be pleased if the next generation of players acted like footballers.

    Anyway rant over, on with the game. Italy's poor defense continued and England took advantage. Unlike Wales, England never looked like stopping, continually griding away - one of Martin Johnson's stereotypical traits. Ben Youngs and Flood look brilliant together, best half back pairing in the Northern Hemisphere at the moment. England are definitely up there with France to win the Six Nations - if anything they have the upper hand with a solid defense. France conceded three tries to Scotland who failed to scratch Wales.
    Agree with all that and the summary of the Welsh game is spot on. I'm very pleased with the development of Warburton and Lydiate. Was worried about the MW replacement at 7 for a while but seems like that's done and dusted now at last.


    Also, why was Moore not commentating in the English game yesterday? Missed his bias It seems everyone hates him, but i really enjoy listening to what he has to say, adds a bit of fun to listening to the game rather than just hearing a boring commentary. Plus, contrary to popular belief he isn't that biased and will regularly have a moan at the way England play. And i'm Welsh.


    (Original post by Roobsa)
    Can see why you don't like Ashton. I guess his 2 tries last week still hurt. It's OK though, at least you won't get the wooden spoon now.
    He's a cocky git and celebrates before he scores so lacks any respect and dignity. A horrible excuse of a person as good as he might be at scoring tries. I mean to have the arrogance to go against MJ in doing the swallow dive, twice. I'm sure even the English acknowledge that he needs to drop it sometime, because what he is doing is completely foolhardy and he will drop it one day if he continues.
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    (Original post by Gob Bluth)
    He's a cocky git and celebrates before he scores so lacks any respect and dignity. A horrible excuse of a person as good as he might be at scoring tries. I mean to have the arrogance to go against MJ in doing the swallow dive, twice. I'm sure even the English acknowledge that he needs to drop it sometime, because what he is doing is completely foolhardy and he will drop it one day if he continues.
    Until the day he does drop it in a dive, no Englishman should complain because he's scoring tries.
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    Great match between Ireland and France so far - surprised the Irish scrum is holding it up so well. Silly penalties given away though and can't afford to slack in the second half.
 
 
 
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