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Students. You have nothing to worry about. Watch

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    (Original post by Martyn*)
    I'm getting tired of seeing and hearing about these tuition fee cuts and student protests.

    THERE ARE BIGGER THINGS GOING ON IN THE WORLD

    Yes. There are.

    Ok. Granted that this is a student forum, but look:

    You won't have to pay any of the debt unless when you leave University, you start top earn over £21,000 per annum.

    It's not that bad. How many of these students are going to be earning that amount when they find that upon leaving their education they'll be tossing burgers at a fast food chain, pulling pints at the local, or sat behind a till in T.J.Hughes? Or even unemployed?

    How many?

    Even if you do get that kind of salary, it's only £7 per month. Granted for a long time, but that debt can be written off, apparently.

    WHAT IS THE FUSS ABOUT?

    At this present moment, I find myself unable to eat properly or afford decent clothing, worried about my own debt problems, baliffs turning up at the door, court charges, unable to put the gas on, rent increase next month and I'll have to find somewhere else to live because I can't afford the rent anymore.

    I've not gone to the local council and protested about my rent no longer getting paid in full. I've not phoned British Gas to complain about the rise in fuel prices. I haven't stormed the local supermarket demanding to stop rising food prices.

    Seriously. YOU HAVE NOTHING TO WORRY ABOUT.


    Hmmm, well I'm a student and I can't afford rent and bills and have holes starting to appear in my clothing, so yeah I think I have something to worry about if I cant afford this **** now and am looking forward to a good 40 grand of debt to pay off.
    Maybe you should protest, you know, as opposed to sitting at your desk and trying to make people feel sorry for you.
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    Protest is integral to democracy. How are politicians to know what people do & don't like if you all keep quiet?!?
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    (Original post by ~Kat~)
    Hmmm, well I'm a student and I can't afford rent and bills and have holes starting to appear in my clothing, so yeah I think I have something to worry about if I cant afford this **** now and am looking forward to a good 40 grand of debt to pay off.
    Maybe you should protest, you know, as opposed to sitting at your desk and trying to make people feel sorry for you.
    But higher fees doesn't make going to uni any less affordable does it?

    Unlike 5 years ago you don't pay fees upfront. Uni now costs a lot more but its also more affordable.
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    (Original post by jb9191)
    I hope that angry face is an emotion you have expressed towards yourself as you only have yourself to blame for the commercial debts and bailiffs hounding you. I think you're just lashing out because you are annoyed with yourself. Grow up and admit you're at blame instead of targeting sixth formers and college students who are in their teenage years.
    Yes. Many of my debts (but not all) are my own fault, but you won't see me protesting against the unfairness of paying a £350 court fine when a tv licence only costs £145. Why can't I pay a £50 fine for not having a tv licence? Why £350? Is that fair for someone who's income is currently less than £55 per week?

    There is nothing fair in this society. I understand that. Maybe the protesting students should understand that too.
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    (Original post by ~Kat~)
    Hmmm, well I'm a student and I can't afford rent and bills and have holes starting to appear in my clothing, so yeah I think I have something to worry about if I cant afford this **** now and am looking forward to a good 40 grand of debt to pay off.
    Maybe you should protest, you know, as opposed to sitting at your desk and trying to make people feel sorry for you.
    I fully understand the crisis you, me and many students up and down the country face. I know that standards of living have decreased over the last couple of years. I know the unfairness of society. But with regards to this 40 grand debt; you may not actually have to pay it ALL back. You may only be paying a couple a thousand, perhaps less. You might not even have to pay a penny back, becuase you have to be earning £21,000 a year.
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    (Original post by Martyn*)
    Yes. Many of my debts (but not all) are my own fault, but you won't see me protesting against the unfairness of paying a £350 court fine when a tv licence only costs £145. Why can't I pay a £50 fine for not having a tv licence? Why £350? Is that fair for someone who's income is currently less than £55 per week?

    There is nothing fair in this society. I understand that. Maybe the protesting students should understand that too.
    Maybe you should have paid for a license instead of being a thief.

    a £50 is not going to deter people from not getting one.

    Everyone in Britain would not get one and take the £50 fine and still watch television if that was the case as it would be cheaper than the £145 for the license.
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    (Original post by jb9191)
    Maybe you should have paid for a license instead of being a thief.

    a £50 is not going to deter people from not getting one.

    Everyone in Britain would not get one and take the £50 fine and still watch television if that was the case as it would be cheaper than the £145 for the license.
    I was caught without one when I moved in the house.
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    (Original post by littleangel9914)
    yeah but aren't people smart enough to understand it's a coalition in which the tories have the majority as a result the lib dems must compromise to keep the coalition goverment going
    Yes. But they always still had the right to vote against what the tories were suggesting and Nick Clegg pledged that he would always vote against it, and now he's for it and will be voting for it.
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      (Original post by Martyn*)
      I've scalled back and come off Virginmedia broadband. I'm on a 3 network dongle. £10 per month allowance. I hope you don't expect me to live in isolation. Without the internet I could not contact my friends, apply for jobs, do research in the comfort of my own home where I tend to be more productive in organising my life. You wanna take that away from me over the cost of £10 per month?
      I do feel that life is dealing you a poor hand at the moment Martyn...but have you never thought of getting on your bike and going somewhere else to seek work...that's what Norman Tebbitt suggested the unemployed did?

      Is it good advice?
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      (Original post by Martyn*)
      And?
      You were a good :troll: until this point. If you aren't one, then it's a shame you live in the same city as me.
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        I think students who are angry about this have every right to protest. I know I want to protest many times in my life, so I could hardly criticise it being done now. But I would urge students to think about the proposals and decide how fair or unfair they really are.

        In order to charge between £6000 and £9000 a University has to meet certain requirements. Some of these requirements are designed to help the poorest students, its now being proposed that the poorest students may get upto two years of fees paid for if they go to Unis charging £9000.

        Also, with students paying the fees instead of taxpayers, it allows market forces to operate more. With fees being potentially £9000, who would go to a University that doesn't offer much for your money? There is more incentive for them to offer a good service to actually encourage students to pay the fees, in contrast when the money is guaranteed to come out of general taxation, as it is now, the University is guaranteed that top up anyway and so they have less incentive to provide a good service.

        The threshold being raised to £21,000 is also significant because by that point in your life £7 a week isn't very daunting. I know there is a lot of uncertainty about the future for students and that makes the idea of debt seem very scary, but when you have a job paying £21,000 you're in a very different stage of your life compared to where you are now.

        Poor people pay a lot of tax, income tax starts at £6.5k at the moment - though by the end of this government it will be 10k because of the Lib Dems - but even that is below a minimum wage income. Meanwhile they also pay NI, VAT, council tax, alcohol/cigarette taxes etc. In fact working class people lose a huge proportion of their income in taxes. Why should these people who earn under £21,000 themselves pay the fees of students who go on to earn £21,000+?

        Finally these proposals keep Universities funded even though they're facing huge cuts of upto 80% in some departments. Those cuts really help to reduce the deficit and I think the situation in Ireland now as well as in Greece previously shows why we need to keep control of our finances. Already we pay £40bn just on the interest of our national debt - that amount of money could easily make tuition fees free, in fact it's close to our entire education budget. Surely some blame should lie on those who have got us into a situation where we spend £40bn on debt interest. Plus the rate of interest we pay on that isn't fixed. If people start to fear that we can't pay back our debts, the interest rates on our debt can and will rise, and the debt interest figure will reach unsustainable levels. By implementing cuts such as these, we're stopping that from happening. Although I do accept that some people believe cuts are necessary, they just shouldn't be cutting Universities (clearly I disagree for reasons previously stated, but I can accept their point) - but I fear those who oppose all cuts simply don't appreciate subtle economic issues such as the fact that interest on our national debt can rise.

        If you agree with all or most of what I've said please join the facebook group Students in Favour of Tuition Fee Reform.
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        (Original post by yawn)
        I do feel that life is dealing you a poor hand at the moment Martyn...but have you never thought of getting on your bike and going somewhere else to seek work...that's what Norman Tebbitt suggested the unemployed did?

        Is it good advice?
        Yes! I'm sure I'll be doing just that in a couple of months time. It's called 'being evicted'.
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        (Original post by Martyn*)
        Yes! I'm sure I'll be doing just that in a couple of months time. It's called 'being evicted'.
        Maybe if you stopped this bitter, jealous, attention seeking winging, pulled that stick out your arse and actually went and got a job then you wouldn't be in this position.
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        (Original post by CandyFlipper)
        I think students who are angry about this have every right to protest. I know I want to protest many times in my life, so I could hardly criticise it being done now. But I would urge students to think about the proposals and decide how fair or unfair they really are.

        In order to charge between £6000 and £9000 a University has to meet certain requirements. Some of these requirements are designed to help the poorest students, its now being proposed that the poorest students may get upto two years of fees paid for if they go to Unis charging £9000.

        Also, with students paying the fees instead of taxpayers, it allows market forces to operate more. With fees being potentially £9000, who would go to a University that doesn't offer much for your money? There is more incentive for them to offer a good service to actually encourage students to pay the fees, in contrast when the money is guaranteed to come out of general taxation, as it is now, the University is guaranteed that top up anyway and so they have less incentive to provide a good service.

        The threshold being raised to £21,000 is also significant because by that point in your life £7 a week isn't very daunting. I know there is a lot of uncertainty about the future for students and that makes the idea of debt seem very scary, but when you have a job paying £21,000 you're in a very different stage of your life compared to where you are now.

        Poor people pay a lot of tax, income tax starts at £6.5k at the moment - though by the end of this government it will be 10k because of the Lib Dems - but even that is below a minimum wage income. Meanwhile they also pay NI, VAT, council tax, alcohol/cigarette taxes etc. In fact working class people lose a huge proportion of their income in taxes. Why should these people who earn under £21,000 themselves pay the fees of students who go on to earn £21,000+?

        Finally these proposals keep Universities funded even though they're facing huge cuts of upto 80% in some departments. Those cuts really help to reduce the deficit and I think the situation in Ireland now as well as in Greece previously shows why we need to keep control of our finances. Already we pay £40bn just on the interest of our national debt - that amount of money could easily make tuition fees free, in fact it's close to our entire education budget. Surely some blame should lie on those who have got us into a situation where we spend £40bn on debt interest. Plus the rate of interest we pay on that isn't fixed. If people start to fear that we can't pay back our debts, the interest rates on our debt can and will rise, and the debt interest figure will reach unsustainable levels. By implementing cuts such as these, we're stopping that from happening. Although I do accept that some people believe cuts are necessary, they just shouldn't be cutting Universities (clearly I disagree for reasons previously stated, but I can accept their point) - but I fear those who oppose all cuts simply don't appreciate subtle economic issues such as the fact that interest on our national debt can rise.

        If you agree with all or most of what I've said please join the facebook group Students in Favour of Tuition Fee Reform.
        The only problem with what you've said is that its debatable whether this will actually save the Government any money to combat the deficit. If even a minority of unis charge around £9k, the Government will be paying out far more in loans than they will save from cutting university funding. In fact, the net effect for those universities will be an increase in funding. Personally, in the long term I expect the Government to make a saving with these measures - but in the short term it won't help much in reducing the deficit. The money to give out loans/grants to students will have to be borrowed.

        However, I am still in favour of these reforms - which I think do make the whole system fairer. But I do think increasing maintenance loans/grants would be preferrable to paying peoples fees for them.

        Also, I think the point you make about the cuts in general being necessary is a very good one, and something I wish more people would realise!
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        (Original post by Butted)
        Maybe if you stopped this bitter, jealous, attention seeking winging, pulled that stick out your arse and actually went and got a job then you wouldn't be in this position.
        Maybe if you stopped living I could have your job?
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        (Original post by Martyn*)
        Maybe if you stopped living I could have your job?
        Maybe
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        erm...isn't it the case that all you people already at uni wont be affected by this?
        so whats the problem?
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        (Original post by Martyn*)
        Maybe if you stopped living I could have your job?
        There are jobs about.

        I've been to the job centre and heard the lazy people turn down perfect jobs as waiters, cleaners, labourers

        Why?

        Because they thought they were too good for them and they needed something better like a more highly paid job.

        Well, guess what? I got news for you. Unless you go to university you will always start at the bottom and work your way up, even most graduates have to in fact.

        So get off your backside and go waiting, cleaning or labouring. I will have far more respect for you than I do as you are now, sat on your ass claiming JSA from the taxpayer every week.

        If people like you didn't leech from society then that tax could be used to top the education budget, the NHS budget.

        Go and get a job or set up your own business. A bit of motivation is all it needs. Stop being bone idle.
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        It's not just the fees that are the problem. It's the cuts to university funding, particularly for arts and humanities subjects.
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          (Original post by Martyn*)
          I was caught without one when I moved in the house.
          But you will have been watching Telly to break the terms. They dont fine you if you leave the tv off until you've paid up then there is no problem.
         
         
         
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