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Black people/Santa/Jesus on the front of xmas cards & racial prejudice at xmas Watch

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      (Original post by RabbitCFH)
      They were Jewish. Jews are white.



      Noooooo!
      They weren't Ashkenazi jews. They were Middle Eastern.
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      Basically if someone hands you a card with a slightly darker than expected Jesus Mary and Joseph just see that as as much of an exaggeration as the pale Jesus Mary and Joseph unless you've been give a card with the correct shade of brown. Be happy, it's Christmas.


      Most of this argument doesn't even matter since most Christmas cards have either trees or abstract Christmas related items and animals on there.


      Can we get a Santa card where he is eating humus?
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      (Original post by shinytoy)
      Ethiopia (Assyria).
      Assyria was not in Ethiopia, it was based in the middle east around Mesopotamia, the furthest the empire reached was Egypt.
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      Santa clause isnt real, so it doesnt matter what he looks like.
      Mary and joseph werent black or white, so they would have looked more like these two than any picture you will see in a church or in a christmas card

      Joseph


      Mary
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      (Original post by Time Tourist)
      This thread seems to have turned into a confusion between some Christmas cards that are so painfully politically correct that it hurts, and an irrelevant and redundant debate about the historical accuracy of great Western Christian art. Now strangely enough most depictions of biblical scenes depict Europeans, since the stories in them are being told by, Europeans to Europeans. It is a redundant question to ask what is the ethnicity of angels, since no one has ever veritably encountered such a winged being in the flesh; but funnily enough, when depicted by Europeans for Europeans, they have tended to have European features.... ZOOOMG racist medieval Europeans etc etc
      quite frankly i DO agree with you, the accuracy of Christian art is something else.

      but no no no!! im NOT advocating ALL cards to be poitically correct, but in an average mainstream shop with 100s of xmas cards it would be nice to see a couple with black people on the front, given that 10-30% of the population are either ethnic OR have relatives who are ethnic. if i am giving a card to say my cousin who is black, to celebrate the birth of Christ, in the hope he will grow up in church trying to emulate Christ, surely that kid can identify more with a brown Christ than a white one. he has enough of the blond blue eyed white ideal of perfection being rammed down his throat by the media.

      reading this thread most (white) people are saying 'race doesnt matter' 'santa and jesus were white, i looked on google images' 'christmas cards always have only white people on them, why change it' that i am actually thinking of making my own range of handmade ethnic cards for next year and selling them since it is so shocking and novel a concept in the UK.

      i can understand using a white image to tell the story from one white to another. but what if us ethnics want to tell each other the story?
      i expect to be minted. if i still use tsr, i will link back to this thread and let you know how it goes. even googling online i cant find any nice non tacky ethnic cards with images of the Holy family or black angesls which i can buy within the UK (not ship from the US).
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      Oh btw shinytoy, St nick was from turkey, so he would have looked a little like this guy
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      (Original post by shinytoy)
      he has enough of the blond blue eyed white ideal of perfection being rammed down his throat by the media.
      I don't agree with this... seems a bit of a glib thing to say, slight Nazi connotation.

      For the rest of what you say, well yea why would I see a problem.

      But when you say you're surprised that some people you gave the cards to gave a slightly different reaction, you must know that these people aren't racist.
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      Oh yh, shinytoy, a quick google search tells me that jesus looked like this


      And you know you can always trust google.
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      (Original post by shinytoy)
      see my quote from the Bible. he was not white, he was brown with african hair(Revelations) with original familial roots in ethiopia (Genesis)


      so if they are not real people and 'race doesnt matter' then why cant at least SOME or even a COUPLE or FEW images on mainstream cards depict him as ANY non white race?


      i found the study you quoted, which was from 2001. actually, the immigration has massively increased sincve then and although ethnic minorities are a minority, they are still sizable in number actually heading toward 20%. http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/ju...nic-minorities

      considering that most white people like to say how they are eg 1/16th indian, had a persian cousin, have anceastry in brazil etc, even more white people should theoretically have non white members of their family, so non whites+ whites with at least one non white relative in their family or extended family should equal at least 30-40%. are ALL of YOU family 100% white with roots in Northern Europe? thought not.



      no i meant the massively inappropriate questions were racial prejudice. if i was white and in church at xmas would peopel ask if i celebrate christmas? if i say im a christian at work, is it really appropraite for people to say 'no, you can tell us, what religion are you really?'

      where are the brown chistians?
      Sorry but how do 'most white people' like to say that? I take it you've asked every White person in this country the question and most have answered that they have another race in their background? Thought not.

      And 'should equal at least 30%-40%'? Maybe it's that high a percentage in London but definitely not in the rest of the country.

      I really don't understand what your point is tbh. Remember, this is largely a White country, so of course the figures etc on Christmas cards are going to reflect majority. Santa Claus himself is a fictional character. He's always been White so of course if you hand someone a card with a Black santa it's going to raise some eyebrows. Mary, Jesus, Joseph etc were Israelis so surely would have had an olive complexion? However, througout the world people like see these figures resembling themselves, hence why in this country they're often portrayed as being White/more nordic looking than they most likely would have been. It's no different to Africans having images of Jesus as being Black so quit complaining, it's just the way of the world.

      I'm very suprised that people were shocked that you were a Christian because you're brown. The only thing i can think of is that (judging by your description of yourself as brown) you resemble a South Asian person who are largely Sikh, Hindu or Muslim because i very much doubt that people would be suprised that, say a Black person, was Christian. I can understand why this would annoy you but it's hardly an indication of all out racism against you is it?
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      (Original post by shinytoy)
      quite frankly i DO agree with you, the accuracy of Christian art is something else.

      but no no no!! im NOT advocating ALL cards to be poitically correct, but in an average mainstream shop with 100s of xmas cards it would be nice to see a couple with black people on the front, given that 10-30% of the population are either ethnic OR have relatives who are ethnic. if i am giving a card to say my cousin who is black, to celebrate the birth of Christ, in the hope he will grow up in church trying to emulate Christ, surely that kid can identify more with a brown Christ than a white one. he has enough of the blond blue eyed white ideal of perfection being rammed down his throat by the media.

      reading this thread most (white) people are saying 'race doesnt matter' 'santa and jesus were white, i looked on google images' 'christmas cards always have only white people on them, why change it' that i am actually thinking of making my own range of handmade ethnic cards for next year and selling them since it is so shocking and novel a concept in the UK.

      i can understand using a white image to tell the story from one white to another. but what if us ethnics want to tell each other the story?
      i expect to be minted. if i still use tsr, i will link back to this thread and let you know how it goes. even googling online i cant find any nice non tacky ethnic cards with images of the Holy family or black angesls which i can buy within the UK (not ship from the US).
      Jesus was a Galilean Jew (yes there are different races within Judaism) so he would have had features that resemble modern day middle-easterners.
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      (Original post by Cocokem)
      Jesus, Mary and Joseph were Jews from Bethlehem a Palestinian city?
      They were brown, most probably. Not snow white.
      They were white, I met them. True story, bro.
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      (Original post by Tom+!)
      Assyria was not in Ethiopia, it was based in the middle east around Mesopotamia, the furthest the empire reached was Egypt.
      So Jesus was an Iraqi? Nice.
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      (Original post by Lewroll)
      Oh yh, shinytoy, a quick google search tells me that jesus looked like this


      And you know you can always trust google.
      That is actually a pretty accurate depiction.
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      I've seen the black Jesus quite a few times, especially in children's books growing up as a catholic myself.
      Black santa is hard to imagine though..... And I'm black myself.
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      Some people are just stupid or are too slow to catch on to what they are looking at.
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      I always chuckled in school when they showed us pictures of a white, blonde hair, blu-eyed Jesus. He's from the Middle East for god's sakes!! lol
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      (Original post by Some random guy)
      That is actually a pretty accurate depiction.
      Oh, did you know jesus personally?
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      I can understand pictures of tanned Jesus/Mary/Joseph, in the story they were from the middle east. They wouldn't have been black though.
      I'd find black Santa a little odd though.
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      People have way too much time on their hands to complain about this sort of stuff Does it really complete your life having a black santa on a christmas card...wow.
     
     
     
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