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Why must people continue to insist the fees prevent poorer students from goin to uni? Watch

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    (Original post by chloeee!)
    AND, look at other countries. We have it good.
    Agreed. I think the average degree at Harvard is something like, £24,000 a year AND their degrees are about 4 years long. In that sense, £9000 is nothing (e.g for Cambridge!)
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    (Original post by Huskaris)
    I think that poor people who are smart enough to go to University can probably see through this... And understand that they will get higher future earnings... In fact Im almost getting sick of the amount of patronising of poor people this country does. We treat them like they are too stupid to work things like this out...
    So what about the poorer people who aren't smart enough to get into competitive courses or even not so competetive courses.
    If i was from a poorer background and i wanted to do a degree in say something like 'history' i wouldnt because of the fear of debt
    however if i was competent enough for medicine i would because i would be unlikely to be in future debt
    These are real life examples ive encountered
    and the worst part is many people arent fully aware of the type of bursaries or govt help available therefore would most probably be deterred from even applying.
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    (Original post by ForFreedom)
    Agreed. I think the average degree at Harvard is something like, £24,000 a year AND their degrees are about 4 years long. In that sense, £9000 is nothing (e.g for Cambridge!)
    A decade or so ago this country ran on the principles of
    'Free healthcare system and a Free and equal education for all'
    It is sad to see this deteriorating
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    (Original post by Bosch)
    I really don't think your grasping this properly, wether your rich or poor, if your not making £21,000, you dont pay your loans, unlike a credit card debt, where no matter how much your earning, you will be made bankrupt and haveyour stuff taken away by the bailiffs if you cant pay it off, university debts are really not a big deal, £7 a week paying back, when your earning 21,000 a year is really not bad.
    My point was people from poorer backgrounds take the whole 'universty fees going up' issue in a negative light and the word 'debt' relentlessly propogated by the media, does and will deter prospective students from poorer backgrounds into not applying for higher education.

    Finito

    And that is my view.
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    (Original post by Athuwssr)
    Well your a class A douche bag.

    £9k a year for three years is an outrage.

    We only have to pay it after we earn £21k so we are better off apparently. Thats only £6k a year more but instead we will have debts of £40k instead of £20k.

    So anyone who goes to uni in 2012 is ****ed.

    Your a **** for listening to what the "coalition" are saying and being absorbed into thinking others will be better off under the new scheme when its total BS
    Why is it an outrage? If you want something, you pay for it. Also, not every uni will charge £9,000 a year. No one pays it back until they earn £21,000, whether they're rich OR poor. So a middle class person and someone from the working class would pay it at the same time - it wouldn't cripple the poor.

    Please, explain to me why fees are so bad.
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    (Original post by ammaarahsaid)
    So what about the poorer people who aren't smart enough
    Then they don't go. Because they aren't smart enough.

    University is not a God given right for everyone.
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    (Original post by ttx)
    It doesn't. All the evidence points the other way. What puts off students from poorer background is the immediate cost not the long term cost (+lot of other factors). So as long as a reasonable amount of money from the fees goes towards increasing bursaries, loans, outreach programs, etc. then it's beneficial to poorer students.

    Every increase in tuition fees in this country has been accompanied by an increase in students from poorer backgrounds attending university.

    Ironically news coverage student protests about tuition fees (which often fails to make it clear that tuition fees don't have to be paid upfront) has a bigger impact on putting students off university than the fees themselves.
    Please tell me how the immediate costs puts off poorer students since the new loans will cover the full tuition fee, so there will be no difference in immediate paying
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    Conservatives: Debt for the country is a bad and corrosive thing! We must eradicate it! Students however, need to have twice as much of it.
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    (Original post by ammaarahsaid)
    A decade or so ago this country ran on the principles of
    'Free healthcare system and a Free and equal education for all'
    It is sad to see this deteriorating
    And yet a far larger proportion of 18yr olds today attend university today than did 30 years ago. Strange that. Maybe because now we have loans which cover living costs, which people didn't get before, unless they wanted to pay normal loan repayment rates. Most people survived purely on family assistance, which limited the poor from attending, whereas now everyone has access to student loans. Yes we have debt, but we can afford to repay it with the benefits we gain from having a degree, whereas previously payment for living was upfront and if you didn't have the cash to hand, bad luck.
    Fees have increased social mobility in that sense hugely.
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    (Original post by ammaarahsaid)
    So what about the poorer people who aren't smart enough to get into competitive courses or even not so competetive courses.
    If i was from a poorer background and i wanted to do a degree in say something like 'history' i wouldnt because of the fear of debt
    however if i was competent enough for medicine i would because i would be unlikely to be in future debt
    These are real life examples ive encountered
    and the worst part is many people arent fully aware of the type of bursaries or govt help available therefore would most probably be deterred from even applying.
    If you are poor and not smart. Vocational skills to get a job.
    If you are rich and stupid, either get a vocation or live off mum and dad.

    Vocation, vocation, vocation.
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    (Original post by .Ali.)
    Then they don't go. Because they aren't smart enough.

    University is not a God given right for everyone.
    Everyone should have the right of pursuing their dreams and living a better life.
    For 'poorer people' this usually means having a better education - going to uni - having a good job.
    [I do realize its usually not so straight forward]
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    (Original post by fredscarecrow)
    And yet a far larger proportion of 18yr olds today attend university today than did 30 years ago. Strange that. Maybe because now we have loans which cover living costs, which people didn't get before, unless they wanted to pay normal loan repayment rates. Most people survived purely on family assistance, which limited the poor from attending, whereas now everyone has access to student loans. Yes we have debt, but we can afford to repay it with the benefits we gain from having a degree, whereas previously payment for living was upfront and if you didn't have the cash to hand, bad luck.
    Fees have increased social mobility in that sense hugely.
    Your arguement does make sense.
    However im trying to highlight the golden years - when fees for university were non-existent and the govt. ran huge campaigns/incentives to encourage 'poorer people' to attend university.
    That was the epitome of a fair society in my point of view.
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    (Original post by Huskaris)
    If you are poor and not smart. Vocational skills to get a job.
    If you are rich and stupid, either get a vocation or live off mum and dad.

    Vocation, vocation, vocation.
    Empathize.

    That is all i can say.
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    (Original post by ammaarahsaid)
    Everyone should have the right of pursuing their dreams and living a better life.
    For 'poorer people' this usually means having a better education - going to uni - having a good job.
    [I do realize its usually not so straight forward]
    No, uni is for the academically privellaged only. Whether they be rich or poor.
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    (Original post by ammaarahsaid)
    Everyone should have the right of pursuing their dreams and living a better life.
    For 'poorer people' this usually means having a better education - going to uni - having a good job.
    [I do realize its usually not so straight forward]
    You don't have the right to university at the expense of the taxpayer. You are being given a privilege on the basis that you have proven yourself to be competitive enough that you will actually more than return the investment the taxpayer makes in you. Its called a meritocracy.
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    (Original post by ammaarahsaid)
    So what about the poorer people who aren't smart enough to get into competitive courses or even not so competetive courses.
    If i was from a poorer background and i wanted to do a degree in say something like 'history' i wouldnt because of the fear of debt
    however if i was competent enough for medicine i would because i would be unlikely to be in future debt
    These are real life examples ive encountered
    and the worst part is many people arent fully aware of the type of bursaries or govt help available therefore would most probably be deterred from even applying.
    If you aren't smart enough why are you at university? It is a privilege for the academically elite, not your local X-factor contestant.
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    The answer by the way is in your question, OP. The simple fact that tuition fees are this high might scare students away, even before looking at details about the loan. The poorer students are the most likely to give it up the soonest. The "everyone who can't be bothered to understand the proposals properly" are often the poorer students with lower qualifications who might not necessarily understand at first what is up. And hence, it prevents them from going to uni. But even if we are trying to be closer to the reality and they do look up the options, a government loan, while it definitely is useful and effective, still implies a debt (even though there is that threshold). Is the salary threshold above which you need to start repaying the loan gonna change as well? You had to start repaying your loan if you earned x pounds a year. Is this amount gonna increase by 6000 pounds? if not, than this obviously becomes a bigger burden.

    The cost of education triples, no matter how you put it. The fact that OP personally doesn't consider himself/herself a person with debt does not really support his/her point.
    I am not a rich student. I refused an acceptance from a top American university because it would have costed 40,000 dollars a year (including room, board, and extracurricular activities). Instead, I decided to go to the UK. There, from now on, I would have to pay about USD 15,000/year for tuition and another $15,000 for life. It's almost the same now. Education will get _almost_ as expensive in the UK as it is at a public US school. (UCLA tuition fee: $20,000). Of course, this itself is not a problem. But while US schools often have extremely generous financial aid programs, British schools will just say that you can take out the government loan.
    Overall, it can make poorer students think twice about going to uni in the UK. I insist.
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    (Original post by ish90an)
    If you aren't smart enough why are you at university? It is a privilege for the academically elite, not your local X-factor contestant.
    There is smart as in 'smart enough for a competent course like medicine'
    Then there is the 'average/ not so sterotypically smart for a course like interior design'
    [not saying that very smart ppl dont do interior design]
    but I believe poorer ppl/ppl from disadvantaged backgrounds will be 'put off/deterred' by the rise in student fees

    and a person can be an academic genius and still want to sing in his/her local X factor
    [its not impossible]
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    because it will prevent poor people from going. It will do this in the sense that people who have been poor most of their life who have seen the affect of debt will be more reluctant to attend university as they see debt as debt. The current fees already put people off. Even earning £21k is not a lot of money especially if you are raising a family on it. Having to pay back that amount of money could have a serious affect on your quality of life, look at someone who say loses child benefit once their child leaves school even that little amount from wages can have a large affect on ones finances.
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    (Original post by ish90an)
    You don't have the right to university at the expense of the taxpayer. You are being given a privilege on the basis that you have proven yourself to be competitive enough that you will actually more than return the investment the taxpayer makes in you. Its called a meritocracy.
    Yes and the taxpayer is majestically paying for the repercussions of this depression - courtesy of the ridiculous bankers who got us in this mess in the first place.
    Once again the taxpayer is paying for something it "benefits from" - how ironic
 
 
 
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