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    (Original post by Norfolkadam)
    I still have yet to hear a single person tell me how this will alter access to education at all? I'm not being facetious when I say that I genuinely don't understand why this has been so controversial.

    If anyone would care to enlighten me? :dontknow:
    In my view, I think that even though there is help for poorer students to get into uni, they wil still see it as how it is 9k a year and will probably think 'sod it' without looking at the facts.
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    (Original post by missygeorgia)
    We are the taxpayers.
    I beg to differ.
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    (Original post by Margaret Thatcher)
    You wasted your time, damaged property, injured people, disgusted the taxpayer - all for nothing. Zilch.

    The vote went through. Tuition fees have been raised.

    If anything, it's made the government's position stronger - as they now have the taxpayer on side, as most taxpayers have been disgusted by the violent acts.
    I agree protesters have failed to get mp's to vote in a majority against free increases, but in the longer run, their feelings aren't going to go away.
    And when they actually see the 40K debit balance and then have to start paying they aren't going to feel any better about it.
    The real change will come when there are bye-elections or at the next general election.
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    (Original post by Margaret Thatcher)
    You wasted your time, damaged property, injured people, disgusted the taxpayer - all for nothing. Zilch.

    The vote went through. Tuition fees have been raised.

    If anything, it's made the government's position stronger - as they now have the taxpayer on side, as most taxpayers have been disgusted by the violent acts.
    Yeh, but it was fun while it lasted...:P

    Tbf we achieved a huge amount-we've got the lib dems running round in circles, with 2 ministerial resignations, and we made this a huge national issue.

    The Lib Dems will be stung hard by this, they were big with young voters-they were seen as potentially different from the others. The image's changed, and I think a lot will switch to Labour.

    To label these protests as totally impotent or irrelevant politically is ridiculous. There hasn't been a student movement like this in a long time. It's had a big impact, and will continue to do so.
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    (Original post by missygeorgia)
    We are the taxpayers.




    love jolteon.
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    (Original post by domino0806)
    I just don't see anything overly wrong with the rise in tuition fees. It will simply filter out the chavs who want to do degrees in green tea studies merely because it's convenient, rather than because they want to be educated.
    Since when do chavs go to university. They tend to drop out of education at 16 with about 5 GCSE's at grade G. A few months later they can be seen on skanky council estates pushing their 50 kids.
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    (Original post by Mujeriego)
    We lost the battle but we didn't lose the war. The Lib Dems will never see the light of day again and that to me is good enough in itself. I just hope a similar calamity befalls the Conservatives and Liebour.
    Do you really think anything that replaced them would be any better. Unless you're one of these student communists in che guevara shirts from pri mark?
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      (Original post by The Cornerstone)
      In my view, I think that even though there is help for poorer students to get into uni, they wil still see it as how it is 9k a year and will probably think 'sod it' without looking at the facts.
      Your opposition to the 67-page Browne Review which took seven people months to prepare and research is anecdotal and not based on any evidence at all. In fact it's in opposition to the figures that show since tuition fees were initially introduced (when the same arguments were made) the proportion of working class students in higher education has increased. Not to mention the sweeteners that have been included in the fee increase such as the 21k payment window, the first-year-free offer and the increases in grants.

      This seems to be the basis of the majority of arguments about the fees. I don't know anyone who thought "sod it" when faced with £3.5k of fees and, in all honesty, the number is totally arbitrary, the real issue is the increase and I don't think the increase is a big deal.
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      (Original post by bj_945)
      The Lib Dems will be stung hard by this, they were big with young voters-they were seen as potentially different from the others. The image's changed, and I think a lot will switch to Labour.

      Balls. They were popular with students, but students don't vote. This is why they were doing phenomenally well in the polls in the run up to the General Election, as student support rallied following the TV debates, then had an absolutely disastrous election.

      Students don't vote. The Lib Dems won't give a **** if they lose their support.
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      (Original post by Monkeyuncle)
      Hope your happy Thatcher, Now the Tories may have destroyed MY Future, Yes I may be in year 9 but this is something that may continue into when I am going to university IF I manage to go because of the money. This is why when I am old enough to vote I will NEVER vote tory for what has just happened and for many reasons you would know yourself. Tories have destroyed many bright futures for students, And will continue to do if you are ever voted again. I hope the tories happy and I hope that the tories will never be voted again..
      Probably best if you don't go to be honest.
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      Was walking through town tonight with a fellow anti protestor...we followed the crowd with their banners and joined in on some of the shouting, just for fun...what good was one last protest going to do, on the day of the vote?
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      They will be failing in four years time when all us 'rioting' ( which were a small minority) students are the ones voting and they can say bye bye to parliament.
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      (Original post by bj_945)
      Do you really think anything that replaced them would be any better. Unless you're one of these student communists in che guevara shirts from pri mark?
      I would prefer a newer option but I can't see any on the horizon. All the political parties in the UK are defiantly ineffectual or become useless once elected. No, I am not a Communist. In fact there is no political party in existence that I can identify with.
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      (Original post by Norfolkadam)
      Your opposition to the 67-page Browne Review which took seven people months to prepare and research is anecdotal and not based on any evidence at all. In fact it's in opposition to the figures that show since tuition fees were initially introduced (when the same arguments were made) the proportion of working class students in higher education has increased. Not to mention the sweeteners that have been included in the fee increase such as the 21k payment window, the first-year-free offer and the increases in grants.

      This seems to be the basis of the majority of arguments about the fees. I don't know anyone who thought "sod it" when faced with £3.5k of fees and, in all honesty, the number is totally arbitrary, the real issue is the increase and I don't think the increase is a big deal.
      Hmm, it's obvious that the fees will have some impact. 3.5k is not a lot, especially when it's all paid on an interest-free loan that you don't have to pay back until you're on 15k pa.

      6/9k might start to be different. People with money won't worry about it, but for poor people 30k of debt is scary. The alternative might be to get a local job and live in a family house. That's a lot less scary. But we want them to have the opportunity to go regardless of income.

      I totally hear what you're saying though. It's very easy to hype this up either way-claim students won't be put off at all, or that all poor people will be put off. As usual, the reality is probably somewhere in between.

      However, I'm don't think what happened tonight is that bad. The point at which I will start getting seriously angry is when the loan starts to get hit. THAT is when fees cease being a disincentive for working class kids, and start becoming a physical obstacle.
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      What I love is that, you have to think that the Tories won't get re-elected in 2015, the Lib Dems certainly won't. With the cuts and all, I doubt people will want that again and their policies. Labour will more than likely get back in, and Milliband has already said he will reorganise the system of tuition fees- and make this a key policy for Labour. This was on an interview on Sky News.

      I think people should calm down. Besides, if you're a current Uni student- it doesn't affect you, I don't see why you get so worked up! Sure, it is morally wrong, but look at it this way. Less people are getting degrees according to this right? Therefore, degrees are going to be more desired in a few years, provided the current system stays of course. With them becoming more desired, surely that means better job prospects for us right?
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      (Original post by FireFox)
      I think people should calm down. Besides, if you're a current Uni student- it doesn't affect you, I don't see why you get so worked up! Sure, it is morally wrong, but look at it this way. Less people are getting degrees according to this right? Therefore, degrees are going to be more desired in a few years, provided the current system stays of course. With them becoming more desired, surely that means better job prospects for us right?
      But its called principle. Something that obviously the lib dems lack right now.
      I do think its one of the nice things that has come out of all this. Students clearly not being selfish, and actually thinking of the effect this will have on future students.
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      (Original post by Margaret Thatcher)
      Jog on brainless sheep.
      calling me brainless? a tad ironic/foolish...and i dont need to prove ive got a brain.

      there a numerous number of ways in which i can prove im not "brainless sheep"...but i dont need to do this - plenty available on TSR if you look hard enough


      she was the brainless cow - similar to you i'd expect, if you appreciate her reign of stupidity
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      (Original post by WelshBluebird)
      But its called principle. Something that obviously the lib dems lack right now.
      I do think its one of the nice things that has come out of all this. Students clearly not being selfish, and actually thinking of the effect this will have on future students.
      I do agree about the Lib Dems, I voted for them and they did indeed completely screw over their voters.

      However, lets put this into perspective here. You get a degree to get a good job right? It increases your job prospects and so on. I understand its not just for that, but thats what the majority of people do. In the job market, its a dog eat dog world, and I'm sorry for being selfish but in a dog eat dog world, you do indeed have to be selfish
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      I don't think much will change when the decision reaches the Lords, really, will it
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        (Original post by bj_945)
        Hmm, it's obvious that the fees will have some impact. 3.5k is not a lot, especially when it's all paid on an interest-free loan that you don't have to pay back until you're on 15k pa.
        The 9k will be paid on an interest-free loan that you don't have to pay back until you're earning £21k. Even then it's only about £10 a month. That's as cheap as the cheapest phone contracts out there. If you have to weigh up if you'd rather have 300 minutes and 200 texts or a degree then you probably shouldn't be doing a degree anyway.

        6/9k might start to be different. People with money won't worry about it, but for poor people 30k of debt is scary. The alternative might be to get a local job and live in a family house. That's a lot less scary. But we want them to have the opportunity to go regardless of income.
        The fact is when you apply to University you don't see it as 30k of debt. You apply for Student Finance and they pay it all for you. The actual amount of fees is totally arbitrary the real outrage is about an increase but an increase in an arbitrary number isn't an increase at all. This isn't like credit card debt it's an investment, if you never get a decent job after Uni then that's not a problem as you don't have to pay it back. If you get a decent job then you're in a position to be able to pay it back.

        University is the first time when young people take on their own financial responsibility separate from their parents. I advocate a flat-rate maintenance loan and grant which covers living costs adequately without looking at the parent's income. I know quite a few upper-middle-class kids at Uni and, admittedly, some of them do get money from home but none of them are having their tuition fees paid for.

        I totally hear what you're saying though. It's very easy to hype this up either way-claim students won't be put off at all, or that all poor people will be put off. As usual, the reality is probably somewhere in between.
        It may be, or, it may not be. Evidence we have from the initial introduction of fees suggests in has no affect at all.

        However, I'm don't think what happened tonight is that bad. The point at which I will start getting seriously angry is when the loan starts to get hit. THAT is when fees cease being a disincentive for working class kids, and start becoming a physical obstacle.
        I always advocate a University system where there's no need to pay up-front.
       
       
       
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