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Which universities will charge above £6000? Watch

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    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    This isn't in the universities gift.

    As Vince said "In exceptional cases, universities will be able to charge higher contributions, up to a limit of £9,000, subject to meeting much tougher conditions on widening participation and fair access. "
    And we all know that Vince Cable never lies!
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    Hm, I think it will be as it was in Germany:
    1. Introduce tuition fees
    2. After short time every University charges the maximum
    3. After some time the amount Universities get from "the state" is cut, so that tution fees cover the loss on money
    (Same happened in Austria when hey had tuition fees.)
    In conclusion: I suppose that after some time the Universities have no other choice than charging the maximum.
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    (Original post by TheSownRose)
    Of course they'll charge for reputation and according to competition, I just think that your idea of 'Oxbridge + Russell Group + Durham - £9k; #20-30 - £7/8k; #31 + below - £6k' is very rigid and arbitrary.

    For example, Robert Gordon is 27 according to Guardian and 51 according to Complete University Guide ... so what do they charge? And where does it leave unis like St Andrews and York - not Oxbridge, not Russell Group, not Durham ... but not twenty to thirty either?
    St Andrews will hardly be affected, unlike their English counterparts. And I think I said in a previous post, Top 20, which includes York as well.

    They will charge first according to what it costs to educate one student for one year on average (I'm just allowing for the cost difference between Arts and Sciences), which is about £7k. Then it will be on competition - which universities have most applicants to places, how prestigious are they e.t.c.

    Since higher education is becoming a product, you can only assume unis will apply the same free market tactics on their degree programmes as say Jimmy Choo does on their shoes. For example, Jimmy Choos are on average £400 for the most simple design. It probably costs them about £50 to make a pair, but they know that they can charge that much and people will buy them because of the publicity and rep they have.

    Oh my, I just compared a degree to a pair of shoes. This is why my Vogue subscription should be cancelled - it's for my own good!
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    (Original post by yahyahyahs)
    St Andrews will hardly be affected, unlike their English counterparts. And I think I said in a previous post, Top 20, which includes York as well.

    They will charge first according to what it costs to educate one student for one year on average (I'm just allowing for the cost difference between Arts and Sciences), which is about £7k. Then it will be on competition - which universities have most applicants to places, how prestigious are they e.t.c.

    Since higher education is becoming a product, you can only assume unis will apply the same free market tactics on their degree programmes as say Jimmy Choo does on their shoes. For example, Jimmy Choos are on average £400 for the most simple design. It probably costs them about £50 to make a pair, but they know that they can charge that much and people will buy them because of the publicity and rep they have.

    Oh my, I just compared a degree to a pair of shoes. This is why my Vogue subscription should be cancelled - it's for my own good!
    What about the cases where their rankings don't match up across the board?

    I'm not disagreeing with you that unis will vary based on competition and 'prestige', just that league tables aren't going to determine that - I'd pay far more for a KCL degree than a Sussex degree ... and yet, according to your standards and league tables, Sussex will be able to charge more. I don't really see a huge difference between Nottingham and Exeter, but Nottingham falls just outside the top price bracket - why?
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    (Original post by TheSownRose)
    What about the cases where their rankings don't match up across the board?

    I'm not disagreeing with you that unis will vary based on competition and 'prestige', just that league tables aren't going to determine that - I'd pay far more for a KCL degree than a Sussex degree ... and yet, according to your standards and league tables, Sussex will be able to charge more. I don't really see a huge difference between Nottingham and Exeter, but Nottingham falls just outside the top price bracket - why?
    Oh god, The Guardian and The Times league tables are the worst, but say they took an average from all. Anyways, everyone has their own university rankings in their heads, for example, the league tables would place Warwick quite high, but I think other universities, like LSE and Durham rank higher. But I think league tables may play a big part because a lot of students use it to choose UCAS choices. Despite being told to look at the department/subject's rep, a lot of people do use the generalised league tables off the internet and reputation. Me and many people I know first went straight to the league tables, before individual subject rankings and location came into the equation. We just wanted to be associated with the name of the university. How would Sussex be able to charge more? I would say by national and international standards, it would be classed as one of the top universities in the country, due to the location, rep, teaching. And Nottingham would definitely not fall outside the top price bracket. Many students apply there because it is one of the lower ranking RG unis (I am one of them) - easy grades and prestige all at the same time. Also, there were 10 people chasing every place last year. Individual subject rankings vary at Notts, but the overall rep is high and fast rising.
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    I think some of the lower universities are going to struggle. They'll need to charge more because of the cuts, but people will be much more selective about where they apply. So I see competition for higher universities increasing, and some of the lower ranked universities shutting down eventually, and quite a few courses being discontinued.
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    (Original post by Arekkusu)
    I don't actually think the difference between 7000 and 9000 courses, say, would put students off. When the total "cost" is 30-40k, with living costs, a total 6k makes little difference. So I would expect the oligopoly. If you can afford say 7000 a year, you can afford 9000.

    (de facto the lower bound will be 7000 to cover the savage education cuts which are what people should really be protesting against)
    Aye my point didn't quite consider the fact that the cost has now risen leaving 6k as the figure necessary to cover costs.

    I see your point but people would be daft to even consider studying a useless degree at a university with limited employability for 9k. Frankly im fairly certain i wouldnt have done my course at that cost.

    ...but then again there is no counting on the rational agent.
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    (Original post by TheSownRose)
    You are aware Britain doesn't use Euros, right?

    Also, these are all (bar one, which isn't being discussed here) public universities, and I believe the extremely high prices you're discussing are private universities? How would $14,222 per year compare with your public universities, assuming you stayed in state (because in the UK, you can't do anything like the equivalent of going out of state)?
    I am not going to claim that I know every single University, but I will use my own home state as an example. We have two main state uni's here. Rutgers and The College of New Jersery (TCNJ). Both are respectable unis and, depending on your choice of major, they are very good options, and cheap. But the in-state price for TCNJ is about $15,000, and Rutgers is 13,000. This is tuition alone. First and second year it is mandatory that you live on campus, and room and board costs $12,000 at both unis. I am not sure how Europe works but there are some hidden fees here also. 500$ here and there stacks up to an extra couple thousand in total. The other thing is that a degree here takes four years, not three, so this price is paid four times.
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    The BBC seems to think the Russell group unis will simply just all charge 9000 from the outset, cheapest English uni will be 7000 and average around 7500.



    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-11967809

    perhaps the various collective uni bodies (RG, Million+) will form price fixing cartels (just my speculation)

    Seems a like 6000 being the maximum apart from exceptional circumstances is pure political B/S... but otoh it means the spread between cheapest and dearest (and especially cheapest and 'average') isn't going to be such a great barrier forcing students from average income backgrounds away from applying to the top unis.

    WRT Vince Cable - I wouldn't believe him if he said the sky was blue.
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    (Original post by Allie-23)
    I am not going to claim that I know every single University, but I will use my own home state as an example. We have two main state uni's here. Rutgers and The College of New Jersery (TCNJ). Both are respectable unis and, depending on your choice of major, they are very good options, and cheap. But the in-state price for TCNJ is about $15,000, and Rutgers is 13,000. This is tuition alone. First and second year it is mandatory that you live on campus, and room and board costs $12,000 at both unis. I am not sure how Europe works but there are some hidden fees here also. 500$ here and there stacks up to an extra couple thousand in total. The other thing is that a degree here takes four years, not three, so this price is paid four times.
    Thousand a month for accom sounds steep - as you probably know the English unis generally don't care where you choose to live.

    Aren't there a lot of scholarships though?
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    Fees will be down to market forces and not anything the government says. A low ranked uni with an over subscribed course can charge £9k while an undersubscribed course at a higher ranked uni will have to charge less.

    I predict the expensive to run, undersubscribed courses like engineering with expensive facilities will evenually be priced out and dropped from most unis while popular courses like computing and english will thrive.

    I think the country will end up with a large number unis teaching only arts and humanities courses which are cheaper to run, require less facilities and more profitable and a smaller number of unis teaching both sciences and arts which are subsidised by the government and industry.
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    (Original post by Allie-23)
    I am not going to claim that I know every single University, but I will use my own home state as an example. We have two main state uni's here. Rutgers and The College of New Jersery (TCNJ). Both are respectable unis and, depending on your choice of major, they are very good options, and cheap. But the in-state price for TCNJ is about $15,000, and Rutgers is 13,000. This is tuition alone. First and second year it is mandatory that you live on campus, and room and board costs $12,000 at both unis. I am not sure how Europe works but there are some hidden fees here also. 500$ here and there stacks up to an extra couple thousand in total. The other thing is that a degree here takes four years, not three, so this price is paid four times.
    So a small bit cheaper than one and more expensive than the other; over the two, the average is $14,000 ... so only a saving of $222 on a UK student.

    Unis here don't care where you live. According to this article, the average cost of uni accommodation is $156.43; if that's on a 30-week contract, $4692.90 each year. 41-week contract makes that $6431.63 and a 52-week contact brings it to $8134.36 ... so yes, an in-state student at public school in New Jersey will pay more on accommodation, on average (some here are much higher - my friend had $316.06 for a 42-week contract, coming to $13274.52 for the whole year.) If you commute in, you save a lot of money, but still have to pay out on fares or petrol, plus you'll need to spend more on things like books because just popping to the library isn't so much an option - if there's a book you use a lot, easier to buy it. There are also hidden costs here - books, equipment, trips, etc - so, like you say, it all adds up.
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    (Original post by Joinedup)
    The BBC seems to think the Russell group unis will simply just all charge 9000 from the outset, cheapest English uni will be 7000 and average around 7500.



    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-11967809

    perhaps the various collective uni bodies (RG, Million+) will form price fixing cartels (just my speculation)
    I suspect they think they will as well. The Office of Fair Trading may well have other views about this. You will recall that about five years ago the OFT launched an investigation into public schools (including Eton) which hadn't seen anything wrong in price fixing. They didn't see themselves as commercial concerns. The OFT soon showed them the error of their way. They were let off with modest penalties in return for undertaking not to do this again.

    Seems a like 6000 being the maximum apart from exceptional circumstances is pure political B/S... but otoh it means the spread between cheapest and dearest (and especially cheapest and 'average') isn't going to be such a great barrier forcing students from average income backgrounds away from applying to the top unis.
    That of course is what we don't know. It may be a load of rubbish. The universities think it is a load of rubbish and are cheerfully planning on £7-9,000 fees but it seems unlikely that they have been "tipped the wink" by government. The universities may well be in for a nasty shock if Cable and Willetts mean what they say.

    WRT Vince Cable - I wouldn't believe him if he said the sky was blue.
    Vince Cable, contrary to his own opinion, is not God and does not cause the sky to be blue. However, he does decide the rules under which universities can charge more than £6,000.

    (Original post by Maker)
    Fees will be down to market forces and not anything the government says. A low ranked uni with an over subscribed course can charge £9k while an undersubscribed course at a higher ranked uni will have to charge less.
    This is a regulated market like gas, electricity and rail fares which means that universities can't charge just what they want.

    I predict the expensive to run, undersubscribed courses like engineering with expensive facilities will evenually be priced out and dropped from most unis while popular courses like computing and english will thrive.

    Remember there is still government money for teaching engineering and the big research grants go to "hard" science. The only money for English apart from a bit of AHRC money will come from fees. Moreover, you are making a assumption that students' behaviour does not change. Computing and English have low graduate prospects.

    I think the country will end up with a large number unis teaching only arts and humanities courses which are cheaper to run, require less facilities and more profitable and a smaller number of unis teaching both sciences and arts which are subsidised by the government and industry.

    For these reasons above I don't think arts and humanities universities are necessarily profitable. The UCU has published a list of most vulnerable universities.

    At the top are:

    Bishop Grosseteste University College Lincoln
    Edge Hill University
    Newman University College
    Norwich University College of the Arts

    I am not sure about Edge Hill because a large part of its students are on nursing courses which are both safe and well funded.

    Below those are:


    Bath Spa University
    Buckinghamshire New University
    Canterbury Christ Church University
    Harper Adams University College
    Leeds College of Music
    Leeds Trinity University College
    Liverpool Hope University
    Roehampton University
    Rose Bruford College
    St Mary's University College, Twickenham
    Staffordshire University
    The Arts University College at Bournemouth
    The University of Chichester
    The University of Lincoln
    The University of Winchester
    The University of Wolverhampton
    The University of Worcester
    University College Birmingham
    University College Falmouth
    University College Plymouth St Mark and St John
    University of Chester
    University of Gloucestershire
    York St John University


    What is noticeable about this list is that only two are ex-Polys; Wolverhampton and Staffordshire (Lincoln was born out of Humberside Polytechnic but is virtually a new foundation in a new city). Virtually all the others were art colleges or teacher training colleges. What they have in common is virtually no science or technology base or law schools. They almost entirely teach "fluffy" subjects plus PGCEs. Most of the ex-Polys still have a grounding in the technical subjects which led to their creation.

    Moreover, many of the ones in the list have a bias towards female students. It is not clear whether there there will be a gender difference over the willingness to incur higher fees.
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    (Original post by Maker)
    I think the country will end up with a large number unis teaching only arts and humanities courses which are cheaper to run, require less facilities and more profitable and a smaller number of unis teaching both sciences and arts which are subsidised by the government and industry.
    I wouldn't be sure about that as arts / humanities / social sciences are losing all their government funding, so while they are cheaper to run, they'll get less income.
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    I think all the universities could get away with charging the same at 3k/year but I would be shocked if they all charge in excess of 6k, particularly when hitting the 9k mark. Lower end universities can't justify that cost, and to be honest it's not fair to students going there having to pay the same amount as a student who's getting world-class oxbridge level education.

    They can charge what they like, but I think this time it will only lead to their downfall as students just won't go to them...and perhaps not go to uni at all, in which case everybody loses.
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    (Original post by MetalheadA7X)
    Surely, if all the universities have the chance to raise the fees to £9000 they all will. They all charged the same before didn't they?

    Not necessarily. The university I was at before I transferred only charged £3000 as opposed to whatever it was a couple of years ago (£3,145 or something like that I think it was).


    Raising the tuition fees will affect the courses which are run by universities but are taught in places such as FE colleges. So not all institutions will want to raise the fees, and if they're forced to then they won't be able to teach those courses anymore.
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    (Original post by Panda Vinnie)
    I think all the universities could get away with charging the same at 3k/year but I would be shocked if they all charge in excess of 6k, particularly when hitting the 9k mark. Lower end universities can't justify that cost, and to be honest it's not fair to students going there having to pay the same amount as a student who's getting world-class oxbridge level education.

    They can charge what they like, but I think this time it will only lead to their downfall as students just won't go to them...and perhaps not go to uni at all, in which case everybody loses.

    This.
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    (Original post by jb9191)
    I still doubt they will be able to improve their reputation even with increases fee's.

    Its like Oxford & Cambridge will always be successful due to their history and their 'name'.

    I expect a few institutions lower down the tables to close down whilst the middle ranked universities will charge £9000 to force their standards up their to try and break into the top 10 as well as improve international recognition.
    I ADORE your sig!!
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    (Original post by nulli tertius)

    This is a regulated market like gas, electricity and rail fares which means that universities can't charge just what they want.




    .
    Unis can charge up to £9k, which all of them will be highly motivated to do.
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    I imagine that the 1994 Group and Russell Group universities will switch to £9k en masse. The other unis will probably go about it as they see fit over the next couple years. Within about five years we should have numerous alterations in fee levels as universities react to student numbers and financing issues. So theoretically it should result in a more diversified fees structure in the long term.

    However this is exactly what the government suggested would happen last time and didn't. The difference there was £1k->£3k wasn't quite the jump we're looking at now.
 
 
 
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