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    (Original post by Wacp)
    Then why the attack on Sweden?

    And, why don't other groups, like the Tibetans, carry out terrorist attacks?
    Look I'm nt condoning these attacks but I'm just making a point that in order to stop these terrorist attacks the west need to address the causes. Why would Tibet attack Europe, has it been invaded by the US and it's allies kiiling thousands of innocent civilians in the process?
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    (Original post by PerigeeApogee)
    Democracy and all the western values we have is precisely why Muslims shouldn't be allowed to live here.

    Their beliefs are vehemently opposed to the western, civilised values that we hold here, and for that reason, any notion of 'multiculturalism' and 'Islamic integration' are impossible.

    Freedom of religion is too vague - but it certainly doesn't allow people to practice religious beliefs which lie opposed to the OTHER laws of this land.

    The same way I'm not allowed to go to Qatar and have a Jack Daniels and Coke, Muslims shouldn't be allowed to come here and do the unwestern things they do.
    So we should sink to Qatar's level. Makes perfect sense. (Actually Qatar is a rather poor example since 33% of the population are not muslim, which is a pretty large minority - but I'll let that slide cos that wasn't the point.)

    As for muslims not integrating into Britain:

    British Muslims for Secular Democracy
    Progressive British Muslims
    Love for All, Hatred for None
    Islam is Peace
    Muslims show pride when British teams to well in competitions, and an allegiance towards Britain. 74%: Britain should deport or exclude foreigners.

    British Muslims condemn terrorism
    List of British Muslims in British politics.

    (Original post by PlanetEuropa)
    Since when does being democratic mean we have to open our doors to undemocratic Muslims ?
    See above.

    (Original post by Crimsonchilli)
    slightly playing devils advocate here, but we also live in a democracy with freedom of speech, something rather incompatible with some of these Islamic immigrants.
    (This attack was provoked by the Swedish cartoons of Mohammed etc, and as far as I'm concerned, if you cant handle criticism and thus freedom of speech, why the hell would you want to move to Sweden...)
    *Some* is the whole point. Why deport all the law abiding Muslims? (But yes I agree with your sentiment).

    (Original post by Wacp)
    But if we wanna remain a democracy with freedom of religion then there is an argument to be made that the number of Muslims in this country should be contained.
    See above.
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    (Original post by ajtiesto)
    Look I'm nt condoning these attacks but I'm just making a point that in order to stop these terrorist attacks the west need to address the causes.
    But, still - why attack Sweden? The usual explanation we get is that Islam is a peaceful religion and that the reason for the terrorist attacks is just a response to Western oppression - that's why terrorists attack New York and London, and not Belgium, Sweden and et cetera.

    Well, that explanation doesn't work.

    (Original post by ajtiesto)
    Why would Tibet attack Europe, has it been invaded by the US and it's allies kiiling thousands of innocent civilians in the process?
    No, I was referring to China.
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    Animals. I don't like Islam and am not in anyway afraid to say it. It is not racist in anyway to say this. Please don't correct this. I hope the Swedish authorities comes down on these savages like a tonne of bricks.
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    (Original post by PlanetEuropa)
    1. No, it is correct.

    2. Unfortunately there is nothing we can do with the Muslims already in Europe, what we can do is stop throwing fuel on the fire and letting more in.
    1. Have you ever studied Islam?

    2. I'm looking past the silliness of your argument and will pose you another question. What about Indian, Sri Lankan, etc. Muslims, as these countries are not Muslim countries?
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    You guys should watch "My Name is Khan" film. It'll show you the different views of Muslims.
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    (Original post by MrGuillotine)
    So who started it?

    What business did Britain have invading Afghanistan? Did Al Qaeda have Britain on their hit list before 9/11 and the Afghanistan war? Why did Britain feel the need to make itself a target by fighting someone's else war - a war which had nothing to do with us? Why is Britain now so surprised and shocked when we're now under attack for the instigation we initiated?
    I cannot agree more. What did Iraq ever do to Britain is another question you have to ask.

    Yet there are countries out like Israel mudering innocent women and children every single, causing absolute destruction and misery. Why aren't the Americans and British dealing with Israel's occupation of Palestine? These are one of many reasons as to why Britain and the US are targets for terrorists.
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    (Original post by CharlieBee_90)
    See above.
    See what above? You haven't addressed the point I made.
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    (Original post by ajtiesto)
    I cannot agree more. What did Iraq ever do to Britain is another question you have to ask.

    Yet there are countries out like Israel mudering innocent women and children every single, causing absolute destruction and misery. Why aren't the Americans and British dealing with Israel's occupation of Palestine? These are one of many reasons as to why Britain and the US are targets for terrorists.
    The US and the UK aren't doing an awful lot about the oppression of Tibet, the occupation of Western Sahara by Morocco, the suffering of Kurds in Turkey and et cetera.

    Yet these groups don't go around bombing New York and London.
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    (Original post by MrGuillotine)
    So who started it?

    What business did Britain have invading Afghanistan? Did Al Qaeda have Britain on their hit list before 9/11 and the Afghanistan war? Why did Britain feel the need to make itself a target by fighting someone's else war - a war which had nothing to do with us? Why is Britain now so surprised and shocked when we're now under attack for the instigation we initiated?
    britain invaded afghanistan to feel big and powerful on the world stage. Wanted to gain some of the big man status on the world stage (perhaps looking to gain some of that sense of importance from back in the days of the empire). Also to do with money, dollar, dollar bill yo! And sticking with the powerful ones (america).

    Britain is not surprised that they are targets for islamic extremists. They are surprised that they got their arses wopped by goat herders in flip flops!
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    (Original post by ajtiesto)
    I cannot agree more. What did Iraq ever do to Britain is another question you have to ask.

    Yet there are countries out like Israel mudering innocent women and children every single, causing absolute destruction and misery. Why aren't the Americans and British dealing with Israel's occupation of Palestine? These are one of many reasons as to why Britain and the US are targets for terrorists.


    A few possible points here:

    -The 'Embassy Bombings' in Africa.
    -The Lockerbie Bombing.
    -The fact that Israelis don't stone non-believers to death.
    -The fact that Israel has never called for the death and destruction of the 'Western infidel'.
    -The fact that Jewish terrorists haven't flown something they could never have hoped to design into something they could never have hoped to build ending over 2000 lives and ruining thousands more who were more successful than a bunch of religious nutjobs ever could be.
    -The attack on a US ship (I forget the name) somewhere in the middle-east in the 1990s.

    (Iraq was perceived to be a threat to security in the form of missiles. Say what you like about Tony Blair, personally he's a ****er, but what if Iraq did have missiles? Rather their country than mine, however harsh that may sound.)
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    (Original post by Wacp)
    But, still - why attack Sweden? The usual explanation we get is that Islam is a peaceful religion and that the reason for the terrorist attacks is just a response to Western oppression - that's why terrorists attack New York and London, and not Belgium, Sweden and et cetera.

    Well, that explanation doesn't work.
    So your blaming 1.5 billion muslims around the world just because of a minority?

    But let me ask you this, if the US and it's allies didn't invade Iraq and Afganistan, plus actually did more to aid Palestine do you think they'd be this threat from terrorists?
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    (Original post by Suetonius)
    This attack is a lot more significant than it may seem. People who don't understand this campaign of suicide murder, car-bombings, beheadings and hatred expressed by the forces of jihad - treating it as a "political response" to Western imperialism - will have a tough time explaining away this attack in such a callous manner (as they do with attacks in the Philippines, Pakistan, Indonesia, Mauritania, Tunisia, Algeria, Mali, Nigeria, and so on). The 'provokation' here is the printing of certain cartoons. All they demand is that we turn to the censorial instinct, and start suppressing everything that may upset them.

    Osama bin Laden, October 2004:

    "Contrary to what [President George W.] Bush says and claims - that we hate freedom - let him tell us then, "Why did we not attack Sweden?""

    No evidence as of yet to suggest this was Al Qaeda, or anything more than the man himself. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if this was a premature detonation rather than a suicide bomb.
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    (Original post by Wacp)
    The US and the UK aren't doing an awful lot about the oppression of Tibet, the occupation of Western Sahara by Morocco, the suffering of Kurds in Turkey and et cetera.

    Yet these groups don't go around bombing New York and London.
    that has nothing to do with islamic extremism and their view of the the american "injustices in islamic lands".......
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    (Original post by Qaz25)
    1. Have you ever studied Islam?

    2. I'm looking past the silliness of your argument and will pose you another question. What about Indian, Sri Lankan, etc. Muslims, as these countries are not Muslim countries?
    Well I advocate banning all third world immigration so it matters not.
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    (Original post by Wacp)
    See what above? You haven't addressed the point I made.
    I did though. Why disallow all muslims to come and live here when those who refuse to integrate make up an insignificant minority? Why not look at the entire post? I provided plenty of evidence.

    I'm all for controlling immigration to prevent the country from becoming overcrowded but there is no reason to deny entry for a group of people just because of their religion.
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    (Original post by ajtiesto)
    So your blaming 1.5 billion muslims around the world just because of a minority?
    I didn't say I was blaming all Muslims for the actions of Muslim terrorists. I recognise that not every single Muslim agrees with their actions, though a much large percentage than the politically correct media suggests support their activities. According to a recent Pew survey, 23% of people in Indonesia, 34% of people in Jordan, 20% of Muslims in Egypt amd 49% of Muslims in Nigeria have a positive opinion of Al-qaeda. We are often told that only a 'tiny minority' of Muslims condone, support etc Al-qaeda and etc, but I don't think 49% or even 23% is a 'tiny minority'.

    I don't know if Al-qaeda would exist, or be nearly as much of a threat, if it didn't have this support.

    (Original post by ajtiesto)
    But let me ask you this, if the US and it's allies didn't invade Iraq and Afganistan, plus actually did more to aid Palestine do you think they'd be this threat from terrorists?
    Well, 9/11 and et cetera happened before the invasion of Iraq and Afghanisatan.
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    (Original post by Wacp)
    The US and the UK aren't doing an awful lot about the oppression of Tibet, the occupation of Western Sahara by Morocco, the suffering of Kurds in Turkey and et cetera.

    Yet these groups don't go around bombing New York and London.
    There Kudish rebel groups bombing Turkish cities on a daily basis. Rebel groups such as the PKK who have targeted Turks both in and out of Turkey.

    As for Tibet, how the hell can you compare what the Israelis are doing the Palestinians and what the Chinese are doing Tibetans? Gaza gets attacked daily, basic food and aid is not getting to the most vunerable due to the blockade. Palestinian homes are getting bulldozed daily in order to make way for Israeli settlements. What would you do if your home was taken down?

    Honestly, if Iraq or Afganistan were to attack your country because they didn't like the governement that was in power would you be happy?
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    1) You just copy and pasted the whole article given on the bbc news website, yes we know what it says and we know how to read, thanks.

    2) Where does it state that muslims or a specific muslim group carried out the attacks ? There is no proof so please stop making things up and please don't refer to one line of an email as proof :facepalm:


    3) Jumping to baseless conclusions is what fools do without knowing all the facts.

    4) To me these bombings seem like an inside job especially with the whole wikileaks issue right now.
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    Well, that was the most pathetic terrorist attack I've ever heard of. But I don't understand why they decided to bomb Sweden? Lars Vilks is just one Swedish person and he published his drawings in Denmark.

    The Swedish government is generally very nice to muslims. We take in a lot of muslim immigrants, give them a pile of money, a home, free language classes and social security without really asking much from them in return. I really think Sweden is one of the most tolerant countries in the world. And then we get suicide bombed for keeping peace-keeping troops in Afghanistan? Troops the government is discussing a withrawal plan for. Why don't they pick on the UN instead?

    And most muslims I've met (about 25% of my home town is muslim) are very European. Some of them wear a hijab, don't believe in evolution and/or are saving themselves for marriage but mostly they are just like Westerners.
 
 
 
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