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    (Original post by 9a3iqa)
    Also when American invaded Iraq and Afghanistan they slaughtered hundreds of thousands of innocent people and ruined the lives of millions. So who is the real terrorist now? 3000 people died on 9/11 and 50 died in 7/7. More than 300,000 died in Iraq and Afghanistan. Yet you people call the Muslims terrorists?
    You people? Less of the generalising thank you.
    We don't all call or think all Muslims are terrorists, just those that initiate deliberate attacks against innocent civilians, like on 9/11.

    Hasn't Wikileaks taught you just how much free speech really is valued in the West?
    As opposed to the democracy in such countries like Saudi Arabia right? :rolleyes:

    Why would people risk their lives to fight and kill modern armies. If you stopped killing them and stealing from them people would leave you alone you know! There is only one way to end terrorism. STOP INVADING OTHER COUNTRIES, KILLING THEIR PEOPLE AND STEALING THEIR RESOURCES.
    Your preaching to the wrong people here bub, you should be directing this towards authoritive figures not average joe's like us.
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    I have one major problem with this:

    1) Saddam had commited atrocities such as genocide.
    This must not have gone unpunished.
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    (Original post by Mann18)
    I have one major problem with this:

    1) Saddam had commited atrocities such as genocide.
    This must not have gone unpunished.
    Thats like all the countries in the west going crazy about irans potential ability to get a nuclear weapon, whereas so many countries have one or many hundreds like america. Who are they to preach? Americas the only country thats used a nuclear bomb.

    The Us was perfectly fine with Saddam until he chose to use his countries oil in different ways.

    There are many many countries with corrupt dictatorships but really most iraqis were happy but the ones that werent were made an example out of for the sake of american interests. Does a country spend trillions if not billions of dollars on war when its in a massive reccession for no financial gain. Get real.
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    (Original post by sinbad23)
    Thats like all the countries in the west going crazy about irans potential ability to get a nuclear weapon, whereas so many countries have one or many hundreds like america. Who are they to preach? Americas the only country thats used a nuclear bomb.

    The Us was perfectly fine with Saddam until he chose to use his countries oil in different ways.

    There are many many countries with corrupt dictatorships but really most iraqis were happy but the ones that werent were made an example out of for the sake of american interests. Does a country spend trillions if not billions of dollars on war when its in a massive reccession for no financial gain. Get real.
    So?

    The motive may not have been noble, but the end result was that an evil dictator was overthrown.

    Get real.
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    (Original post by sinbad23)
    "terrorism" what a ****ing joke. In the book Art of War by sun tzu it states that deception in by far the most important part of war as is making your army believe their doing the right thing. I truly believe 9/11 did NOT happen the way the media told you- Jet fuel is not hot enough to melt steel and the building exploded like a demolition as well as the only proof of terrorists to be passports found on the floor. WHAT A JOKE. It is most likely that "bin laden"was paid or expoited to do whatever hes doing in order to secure the oil reserves of the middle east. Bin laden is from a very rich family that has history of doing business with the bush family.

    Wake up.

    Oh and people complain about dumb crap like somali pirates well guess what british oil countries dumped huge toxic waste and oil spillages all around surrounding areas of somalia leaving the countries fishing resources in ruin and people struggling to survive. The "pirates" have a choice of die or survive and rob from the nation who left you in poverty. What would you do?
    Yeah but to be fair the pirates aren't actually robbing from the "nation who left them in poverty" are they (btw, it's particularly foolish of you to say that Britain alone left Somalia in poverty-as though it has nothing to do with Somalians themselves.) Take the Chandlers for example. They were just an ordinary couple who were as far away from Somalia as Rome is from London. They had nothing to do with british oil companies or anything else, they were just trying to enjoy their retirement in peace. So you know what, i can honestly say hand on heart that if i ever had the misfortune of being in the same situation as the Somali pirates, i wouldn't kidnap an elderly couple, try to rape an old woman and extort money from their innocent families. And you know why?, because i'm not evil scum. That's all the Somali pirates are, evil pieces of s*** so don't try and make them into victims.
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    (Original post by BellaBoo)
    Yeah but to be fair the pirates aren't actually robbing from the "nation who left them in poverty" are they (btw, it's particularly foolish of you to say that Britain alone left Somalia in poverty-as though it has nothing to do with Somalians themselves.) Take the Chandlers for example. They were just an ordinary couple who were as far away from Somalia as Rome is from London. They had nothing to do with british oil companies or anything else, they were just trying to enjoy their retirement in peace. So you know what, i can honestly say hand on heart that if i ever had the misfortune of being in the same situation as the Somali pirates, i wouldn't kidnap an elderly couple, try to rape an old woman and extort money from their innocent families. And you know why?, because i'm not evil scum. That's all the Somali pirates are, evil pieces of s*** so don't try and make them into victims.
    lol no your a lier, or a fool, because I know if I was unable to survive I would do many many things I needed to do. It may not be easy to understand if youve spent your whole life in nice suburban england with nice resources etc.

    And no its not exactly those peoples fault, but Im sure they, you and me drive cars or public transport daily which use oil perhaps from the somali region.
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    (Original post by Mann18)
    So?

    The motive may not have been noble, but the end result was that an evil dictator was overthrown.

    Get real.
    Well I wish the evil dictators of these countries are also overthrown as well as America. I strongly doubt such a thing as democracy exists. All politicians are supported by the rich for the richs interest. One way or another there is a massive gap between rich and poor and great corruption that goes on. Even if most people in England never experience the effects of it. Although Im sure there really are. Why is it that weve had free energy for 65 years but still use Oil. Why is it that the owner of topshop dodges the same amount of tax that student fees have been cut by. Why is there such a shortage of jobs and employment maybe because the way the economys been depleted by banks, why are we sending troops to war when we cant even provide 25% of people under the age of 25 with employment.

    I would say governments are the worst terrorists or criminals. Not the average poor kid on the street who sells drugs to survive.
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    (Original post by sinbad23)
    lol no your a lier, or a fool, because I know if I was unable to survive I would do many many things I needed to do. It may not be easy to understand if youve spent your whole life in nice suburban england with nice resources etc.And no its not exactly those peoples fault, but Im sure they, you and me drive cars or public transport daily which use oil perhaps from the somali region.
    No i just have a scrap of human decency. I don't live in a nice suburban area of England (although i understand your point that even in poor areas of England we have no idea how conditions for people in third world countries are) but i genuinely know that if i was in such a situation i would not partake in such cowardly evil actions as those pirates. Are you implying that all people in the West who drive a car/use oil somehow deserve to be kidnapped and tortured by money hungry scumbags? So i'm assuming that if a member of your family got kidnapped you'd be happy about it and say that the perpetrators were "only doing what they needed to do for survival"? Get real. Furthermore, i think your notion that all people who live in difficult conditions around the world would partake in such dispicable actions is really offensive. I have family members who were born in one of the poorest countries on earth and i can guarantee that however hard it was for them before they came over to this country, they would NEVER treat people like that. Face it, the Somali pirates are evil, opportunists-NOT victims.
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    (Original post by BellaBoo)
    No i just have a scrap of human decency. I don't live in a nice suburban area of England (although i understand your point that even in poor areas of England we have no idea how conditions for people in third world countries are) but i genuinely know that if i was in such a situation i would not partake in such cowardly evil actions as those pirates. Are you implying that all people in the West who drive a car/use oil somehow deserve to be kidnapped and tortured by money hungry scumbags? So i'm assuming that if a member of your family got kidnapped you'd be happy about it and say that the perpetrators were "only doing what they needed to do for survival"? Get real. Furthermore, i think your notion that all people who live in difficult conditions around the world would partake in such dispicable actions is really offensive. I have family members who were born in one of the poorest countries on earth and i can guarantee that however hard it was for them before they came over to this country, they would NEVER treat people like that. Face it, the Somali pirates are evil, opportunists-NOT victims.
    lol its got nothing to do with decency. Opinions of good and evil are mostly just that opinions. Evil doesnt exist, most people according to their version of reality are doing the good thing. I have recently been unemployed for five months whilst working very hard everyday to find a job, and not getting 3 of those months benefits. Let me tell you that is tough. No I did not sell drugs or rob someone but then again I was allowed to live with family and I cant say the thought didnt cross my mind. What does it have to do with being happy if someone kills my parents of course I wouldnt be "happy" but there might be some part of me that understands the reason why someone might do something like i.e human stupidity, the reasons why most things happen. I do not think "all people who live in poor parts of the world would partake in "despicable" actions. Where did I say that, and again they are only dispicable according to your version of reality. Morals can be considered a luxury when you have what you need to survive. I recently watched a program on TV about the conflict in Israel/Palestine a 5 year old said "I dont want peace, the jews killed my mum, dad, brother, uncle, aunts and grandparents. I want to get revenge and then cried" Surely you can understand that this is not "evil".
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    Most people here seem to be arguing either for or against one side.

    IMO, both "sides" are as bad as each other and I support neither side. The only conclusion I can come to is that humans can be despicable creatures sometimes.
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    (Original post by sinbad23)
    lol its got nothing to do with decency. Opinions of good and evil are mostly just that opinions. Evil doesnt exist, most people according to their version of reality are doing the good thing. I have recently been unemployed for five months whilst working very hard everyday to find a job, and not getting 3 of those months benefits. Let me tell you that is tough. No I did not sell drugs or rob someone but then again I was allowed to live with family and I cant say the thought didnt cross my mind. What does it have to do with being happy if someone kills my parents of course I wouldnt be "happy" but there might be some part of me that understands the reason why someone might do something like i.e human stupidity, the reasons why most things happen. I do not think "all people who live in poor parts of the world would partake in "despicable" actions. Where did I say that, and again they are only dispicable according to your version of reality. Morals can be considered a luxury when you have what you need to survive. I recently watched a program on TV about the conflict in Israel/Palestine a 5 year old said "I dont want peace, the jews killed my mum, dad, brother, uncle, aunts and grandparents. I want to get revenge and then cried" Surely you can understand that this is not "evil".
    Stop trying to construct an unwinnable argument. Ok "good and evil are just opinions", so murderers, peadophiles aren't evil then? At the end of the day, for most decent people the murder, kidnap, rape etc of innocent people is EVIL and tbh, you stating that these people are VICTIMS (whatever conditions they live in) shows what a vile person you are (although tbh, the fact that the thought of robbing someone when you were in a bad situation even crossed your mind shows what type of person you are!) I was unemployed last year for almost a year, but i would never even consider gaining money by taking it off other people. Why should other people suffer because of my bad situation? You didn't explicitly say that all people who live in poor parts of the world would partake in such actions, but surely by implying these pirates were only doing what they needed to survive you're also saying that all people in similar situations would stoop to the same low levels-after all, if all these pirates were doing is the minimum they needed to survive then all Somali people would be doing the same thing? Unless of course you realise that the things they are doing is not for survival but for pure greed. In one of your other posts you said that the Chandler's indirectly were to blame for the Somalians conditions (through using "Somalian" oil apparently LOL) so therefore deserved to be kidnapped, now my point was-if you truely believe that then surely you wouldn't mind if a member of your family was kidnapped (after all they obviously deserve it, as do all other people who use oil.) The people in your Israel/Palestine story were children, so no i wouldn't say it's evil (just misguided) however if they were adults-then hell yeah it's evil. If they were taking revenge on the people who actually killed their relatives, then it's debatable, but if they want to take revenge on ALL Israeli people then YES it is evil! It's like me saying, my Great Grandad was killed in World War Two, i'm going to get revenge on all German people who would have been alive in the days of the War.
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    (Original post by BellaBoo)
    Stop trying to construct an unwinnable argument. Ok "good and evil are just opinions", so murderers, peadophiles aren't evil then? At the end of the day, for most decent people the murder, kidnap, rape etc of innocent people is EVIL and tbh, you stating that these people are VICTIMS (whatever conditions they live in) shows what a vile person you are (although tbh, the fact that the thought of robbing someone when you were in a bad situation even crossed your mind shows what type of person you are!) I was unemployed last year for almost a year, but i would never even consider gaining money by taking it off other people. Why should other people suffer because of my bad situation? You didn't explicitly say that all people who live in poor parts of the world would partake in such actions, but surely by implying these pirates were only doing what they needed to survive you're also saying that all people in similar situations would stoop to the same low levels-after all, if all these pirates were doing is the minimum they needed to survive then all Somali people would be doing the same thing? Unless of course you realise that the things they are doing is not for survival but for pure greed. In one of your other posts you said that the Chandler's indirectly were to blame for the Somalians conditions (through using "Somalian" oil apparently LOL) so therefore deserved to be kidnapped, now my point was-if you truely believe that then surely you wouldn't mind if a member of your family was kidnapped (after all they obviously deserve it, as do all other people who use oil.) The people in your Israel/Palestine story were children, so no i wouldn't say it's evil (just misguided) however if they were adults-then hell yeah it's evil. If they were taking revenge on the people who actually killed their relatives, then it's debatable, but if they want to take revenge on ALL Israeli people then YES it is evil! It's like me saying, my Great Grandad was killed in World War Two, i'm going to get revenge on all German people who would have been alive in the days of the War.
    lol your comment is hilarious again. So many things wrong with your statement that I questioned wether I needed to reply but then again I feel like a bit of an "evil" ego boost by proving you wrong haha. A murderer is someone who has committed murder. This does not make someone a "murderer". There are many possible reasons someone may feel the need to commit murder, revenge, brainwashing, to kill someone whos trying to kill you first, extremely low self esteem, very negative hateful feelings towards an other, feeling someone is a threat, mental illness etc etc. If someone murders someone else and then goes on to do many good things one can debate wether being a murderer is a good thing. Also one can indirectly encourage or commit murder. if someone sees someone commit murder and doesnt do anything about it they could be considered a murderer. if someone directs someone to do murder and pays them to do it i.e judges who do the death penalty/someone who directs war they could be considered a murderer. I obviously do not condone killing but everytime you eat a meal of meat in some ways you could be considered as being ignorant towards the killings of animals. How would you like someone to eat your pet for dinner.

    The comment about peadophilia. I know Im going to get slated for this but how is it really that different from homosexuality. It is the persons sexual preference. Older men and older women prefer their younger counterparts and therefore its just an exaggeration for that. You can argue that young children cant choose to have sex and they do what theyre told but then again young children dont choose to get brainwashed with bull**** religion either. Whos to decide what is sickness and normality. Many people think homosexuality is a form of sickness. I also argue with them. Its their sexual inclination. I dont agree with it. But I dont neccessarily think its "evil. Many children have sex at 13 years old just because there is a law against it doesnt make it "wrong".

    Most people who commit bad acts suffer from extremely low self esteem. I dont think THEY are the victims rather that they can be viewed as victims also. I said the thought crossed my mind. How am I wrong for feel tremendous amounts of rage towards the government and people who collapsed the economy and then go on to start wars over oil. How am I wrong for hating the people who stopped 3 months of my benefit because it tool 2 months to get a letter from the people of my old university. I could have been homeless if you think that no one would consider aggressibely hurting or even killing the person who made you homeless for even a split second you are deluded. I thought about such things as robbing or stealing but that doesnt mean I went and did it. You cannot control what you think. Your thoughts happen.

    Why should other people suffer because of my bad situation. Oh my god. Please tell me that no one in the world wants another to suffer for "causing (which is not the right word) but having some responsibility for their pain. Please

    Oh my god you just write so much drivel in your post that I did not say and just inserted it in their anyways. Where did I mention anything about everyone born in poverty wanting to commit such acts. There are many buddhists who dont have any money, any desires etc who are extremely happy and many poor people who rob, sell drugs, kill for money, the difference lies in their self esteem, and unneccessary desires and unhappy feelings as well as unnacceptance of their situation.

    I did not say they deserved to be kidnapped. I said it was understandable.

    What is the difference between an adult and a child. Nothing. Many adults think like children. Many children think like adults. Many 60 year olds think all black people should be exterminated because their sub-human or something. Is this "adult like" behaviour. Many adults are extremely overprotective and treat their children like little dependent babies who cant handle the world so they can feel needed is this "adult like" behaviour. Many adults have burned people at the stake because they believed they were a witch. How is it wrong for that kid to want revenge. No its not "evil". For a child not to want revenge he would have to be extremely conscious and loving. If someone killed my parents I wouldnt murder them but maybe for the first week I heard about it. I would have strong feelings and desires to do so which may lead to it being done.

    I think you are a little naive to think that no one would desire revenge or removing the threat to their happiness.

    Now you probably think I am evil for saying what I have just said. But the fact remains Im a pretty nice guy. I just have an interest towards buddhism and psychology and aspects of exploring my dark side.
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    (Original post by PeeWeeDan)
    Oversimplified self hating "It must be our fault" bull**** argument.
    How is it self hating to think that it perhaps wasn't muslims who decided one day 'oh, perhaps we should blow some **** up for lolz' but rather decades of built up animosity thanks to earlier precedents of western imperialism on states which had a majority muslim populations ?
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    (Original post by 9a3iqa)
    You do know that if the West leaves those countries alone terrorism will die don't you? After all there will be no justification to attack innocents.
    You're absolutely right.
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    (Original post by sinbad23)
    lol your comment is hilarious again. So many things wrong with your statement that I questioned wether I needed to reply but then again I feel like a bit of an "evil" ego boost by proving you wrong haha. A murderer is someone who has committed murder. This does not make someone a "murderer". There are many possible reasons someone may feel the need to commit murder, revenge, brainwashing, to kill someone whos trying to kill you first, extremely low self esteem, very negative hateful feelings towards an other, feeling someone is a threat, mental illness etc etc. If someone murders someone else and then goes on to do many good things one can debate wether being a murderer is a good thing. Also one can indirectly encourage or commit murder. if someone sees someone commit murder and doesnt do anything about it they could be considered a murderer. if someone directs someone to do murder and pays them to do it i.e judges who do the death penalty/someone who directs war they could be considered a murderer. I obviously do not condone killing but everytime you eat a meal of meat in some ways you could be considered as being ignorant towards the killings of animals. How would you like someone to eat your pet for dinner.

    The comment about peadophilia. I know Im going to get slated for this but how is it really that different from homosexuality. It is the persons sexual preference. Older men and older women prefer their younger counterparts and therefore its just an exaggeration for that. You can argue that young children cant choose to have sex and they do what theyre told but then again young children dont choose to get brainwashed with bull**** religion either. Whos to decide what is sickness and normality. Many people think homosexuality is a form of sickness. I also argue with them. Its their sexual inclination. I dont agree with it. But I dont neccessarily think its "evil. Many children have sex at 13 years old just because there is a law against it doesnt make it "wrong".

    Most people who commit bad acts suffer from extremely low self esteem. I dont think THEY are the victims rather that they can be viewed as victims also. I said the thought crossed my mind. How am I wrong for feel tremendous amounts of rage towards the government and people who collapsed the economy and then go on to start wars over oil. How am I wrong for hating the people who stopped 3 months of my benefit because it tool 2 months to get a letter from the people of my old university. I could have been homeless if you think that no one would consider aggressibely hurting or even killing the person who made you homeless for even a split second you are deluded. I thought about such things as robbing or stealing but that doesnt mean I went and did it. You cannot control what you think. Your thoughts happen.

    Why should other people suffer because of my bad situation. Oh my god. Please tell me that no one in the world wants another to suffer for "causing (which is not the right word) but having some responsibility for their pain. Please
    Oh my god you just write so much drivel in your post that I did not say and just inserted it in their anyways. Where did I mention anything about everyone born in poverty wanting to commit such acts. There are many buddhists who dont have any money, any desires etc who are extremely happy and many poor people who rob, sell drugs, kill for money, the difference lies in their self esteem, and unneccessary desires and unhappy feelings as well as unnacceptance of their situation.

    I did not say they deserved to be kidnapped. I said it was understandable.
    What is the difference between an adult and a child. Nothing. Many adults think like children. Many children think like adults. Many 60 year olds think all black people should be exterminated because their sub-human or something. Is this "adult like" behaviour. Many adults are extremely overprotective and treat their children like little dependent babies who cant handle the world so they can feel needed is this "adult like" behaviour. Many adults have burned people at the stake because they believed they were a witch. How is it wrong for that kid to want revenge. No its not "evil". For a child not to want revenge he would have to be extremely conscious and loving. If someone killed my parents I wouldnt murder them but maybe for the first week I heard about it. I would have strong feelings and desires to do so which may lead to it being done.
    I think you are a little naive to think that no one would desire revenge or removing the threat to their happiness.

    Now you probably think I am evil for saying what I have just said. But the fact remains Im a pretty nice guy. I just have an interest towards buddhism and psychology and aspects of exploring my dark side.
    Lol no i don't think you're evil, just an attention seeking idiot (i'm honestly finding it hard to accept that you genuinely believe the crap that you wrote, i'm just thinking you're trying to be sensationalist to get a response?) You actually have the cheek to call my posts "drivel" yet then come out with such s***. Are you actually being serious?

    "A murderer is someone who has commited murder. This does not make someone a murderer." SAY WHAT?!??!?!? And i'm supposed to be the one who posts drivel? You obviously can't justify your original point (i.e. the Somali pirates being victims) so instead are trying to get me in a moral debate. Meat was really the wrong example to bring up with me. I am a vegetarian and believe that eating an animal is akin to eating another person. But the only thing you have acheived in your post is me wasting 5 minutes of my life reading it (maybe that was your intention?) because while you are right that other issues can cause someone to commit atrocious acts (e.g. low self esteem etc as you said) it doesn't mean that the act itself and therefore the people commiting it aren't dead wrong for doing so! You implied that the Somali Pirates were somehow innocent (because of British people using "their" oil and being the reason for Somalia's poverty-which btw you still haven't explained) and you also still haven't indicated how that can possibly be the case!
    And how do random people on the street have some kind of responsibility for you being unable to get a job and being poor, and how do all Israelis have some kind of responsibility for those Palestinian kids who lost their parents? There is a difference between wanting to kill the people who actually killed your parents, and taking it out on people who just happen to share the same nationality of those who did! I never said it was evil for them wanting revenge, but for them to want revenge on ALL Israeli's *is* damn evil. I can't actually believe i'm even trying to debate with someone who asks what the difference between an adult and an child is, and believes that peadophillia is a "sexual preference" and akin to homosexuality. In a homosexual relationship the two people are consenting and know what they're doing, that is NOT the same as a man ****ing a 3 year old girl!

    Maybe when you grow up a bit you'll look back at the **** you typed and realise that it doesn't make you look cool or edgy (lmao @ "exploring my dark side", it just makes you look like a prick.
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    (Original post by Broderss)
    you know muslim terrorists kill more muslims than they do westerners and more muslims than our forces, right?
    Hmm would you like to provide facts for that and numbers, how do we know they're some mentally ill people hired to be potrayed as Muslims by the media and further hinder the religion's name?! Yeah what i said is just about as nonsensical as the crap you came out with, but whats stopping it being right???? Cuz the media doesn't subjectively cover it.
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    The only way to stop murder is to stop murdering people.
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    (Original post by 9a3iqa)
    You do know that if the West leaves those countries alone terrorism will die don't you? After all there will be no justification to attack innocents.
    I would love to agree with you and do to an extent. Yes some terrorists do use interference from the 'west' and and suffering due to the 'west' including US and Israel to justify their actions.

    But they don't just use provocation as an excuse to kill the many innocent. How do you think they justify killing women and children who are Muslim and living in Pakistan or other Muslim countries?

    It is the 'will of God' for them. They are brainwashed with the wrong interpretations of the Qu'ran, taken out of context completely.

    Once a terrorist has been brainwashed into thinking it is the 'will of God' that he should commit an act of terrorism, suddenly the US or Israel or whatever you regard the 'west' to be will not stop him from killing the innocent.

    Sorry but THATS the reality.
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    People people.

    Why is TSR turning into Muslims or 'east' v.s. West.

    For goodness sake. In 2009 more innocent people were killed in Pakistan than Afghanistan.
    Yes that includes drone attacks by US but there were also over 500 suicide attacks/bomb blasts in Pakistan - A MUSLIM country.

    No - the West isnt being attacked as much as the 'Muslims' are.
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    (Original post by SamiFFXIII)
    Hmm would you like to provide facts for that and numbers, how do we know they're some mentally ill people hired to be potrayed as Muslims by the media and further hinder the religion's name?! Yeah what i said is just about as nonsensical as the crap you came out with, but whats stopping it being right???? Cuz the media doesn't subjectively cover it.
    http://humaimtiaz.wordpress.com/timeline-pakistan-2009/
 
 
 
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