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The Republic of Ireland shoud re-join the Union Watch

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    Maybe Ireland could take Liverpool. As most of scousers are Irish.
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    (Original post by Peace'n'loveman)
    In which ways does the uk benefit from the EU,just out of interest, say compared to countries like Turkey which have a free trade agreement with the EU anyway without being in it?


    Freedom of movement? I wouldn't imagine your roads needed funding, and I don't have time to look up other reasons, but I think that is a big one! Obviously, there are other benefits that the UK does not have because it's not extremely economically weak or in the eurozone. However, they are there should the UK need them/want them. God forbid if the UK needed a bailout, the EU/IMF would offer it on a plate. These are advantages to membership, even if not needed.


    I don't think 'forcing' Ireland to re-join, aside from how repugnant that is, can be considered a viable form of action. Ireland's constitution cannot be changed WHATSOEVER except by public referenda.

    LOL yes the IRA are terrorists, I do think it should be remembered that they are a tiny fraction of the population and that there are also numerous terrorist organisations on the other side. I do think though that the IRA's former incarnations- IRB, Fenians, Ribbonmen had some merit..but the IRA are just scumbags.

    As for the Rising- utter failure, sufferred so badly from poor planning and from O'Neill's orders, and yes was put down too heavily. Highly significant though, there's a lot to be said for creating martyrs. Connolly- please read up on him. Connolly was not a romantic writing poems about blood on battlefields. He was much older and much wiser than Pearse, he was only interested in an uprising as a means to acheive his aims- for the ICA and the IGWTU. Pearse was in a minority in the Supreme Council that planned the Rising- most were hardcore IRB members and ICA, not romantic teachers.
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    (Original post by StarsAreFixed)
    Freedom of movement? I wouldn't imagine your roads needed funding, and I don't have time to look up other reasons, but I think that is a big one! Obviously, there are other benefits that the UK does not have because it's not extremely economically weak or in the eurozone. However, they are there should the UK need them/want them. God forbid if the UK needed a bailout, the EU/IMF would offer it on a plate. These are advantages to membership, even if not needed.


    I don't think 'forcing' Ireland to re-join, aside from how repugnant that is, can be considered a viable form of action. Ireland's constitution cannot be changed WHATSOEVER except by public referenda.

    LOL yes the IRA are terrorists, I do think it should be remembered that they are a tiny fraction of the population and that there are also numerous terrorist organisations on the other side. I do think though that the IRA's former incarnations- IRB, Fenians, Ribbonmen had some merit..but the IRA are just scumbags.

    As for the Rising- utter failure, sufferred so badly from poor planning and from O'Neill's orders, and yes was put down too heavily. Highly significant though, there's a lot to be said for creating martyrs. Connolly- please read up on him. Connolly was not a romantic writing poems about blood on battlefields. He was much older and much wiser than Pearse, he was only interested in an uprising as a means to acheive his aims- for the ICA and the IGWTU. Pearse was in a minority in the Supreme Council that planned the Rising- most were hardcore IRB members and ICA, not romantic teachers.
    Says a Brit!
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    Whoever started this thread is a **** stirrer.
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    There is only one thing worse than a right wing unionist supporter and that is an ungrateful Irish traitor. If people like you had their way there wouldn't be an Irish republic. You Dubliners are the least patriotic of all Irish the world over. The Irish American has more love for Ireland than you do.
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    (Original post by Barden)
    "the repugnant ideology of nationalism"

    Says the Tory with a White Ensign as his profile pic... :rolleyes:
    I don't really see what's nationalistic about the white ensign. I've got some connections to the Royal Navy, but mostly it's there because I just like the flag. I'm a bit of an amateur vexillologist and I like flags based on designs, not on where they come from. I tried to get a bloody Maryland flag for my display flag in the top right, for aesthetic appeal only, and the admins never got around to it.

    I'm a Tory, but I've never felt nationalism is a part of Tory ideology. It certainly isn't part of my ideology - I'm viciously opposed to it.


    (Original post by RandyMann)
    If people like you had their way there wouldn't be an Irish republic.
    ...and that'd be really terrible, of course...
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    The Nazis called the French resistance, terrorists.
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    (Original post by L i b)
    I don't really see what's nationalistic about the white ensign. I've got some connections to the Royal Navy, but mostly it's there because I just like the flag. I'm a bit of an amateur vexillologist and I like flags based on designs, not on where they come from. I tried to get a bloody Maryland flag for my display flag in the top right, for aesthetic appeal only, and the admins never got around to it.

    I'm a Tory, but I've never felt nationalism is a part of Tory ideology. It certainly isn't part of my ideology - I'm viciously opposed to it.
    You already replied to this a few weeks ago you know

    I've always considered nationalism to be part of Conservative ideology - not the ethno-nationalism *******s the BNP bang on about of course...

    I take it you are more of a libertarian then?
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    (Original post by Barden)
    You already replied to this a few weeks ago you know

    I've always considered nationalism to be part of Conservative ideology - not the ethno-nationalism *******s the BNP bang on about of course...

    I take it you are more of a libertarian then?
    Ah ****, I'm not very good at keeping track.

    Yes, I suppose I'm on the libertarian lines. A lot of the Euroscepticism in the grassroots is probably nationalistic unfortunately, but I don't let it bother me.
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    (Original post by L i b)
    Military occupation is term of art in international law. The legitimate rule of a state over a given area is not dependent on the people of that area supporting it. Even if Ireland had been militarily conquered - which it wasn't - it was passed into the civil framework of the state, and thus would be considered to be an annexed territory. But, as I say, it was not - it was an ordinary part of the United Kingdom.
    So what? You cannot justify or negate oppression by couching it in a political rhetoric. Basically, you seem to be stating that because the Brits said Ireland was theirs as "an ordinary part of the United Kingdom", it then just was theirs :rolleyes:

    BEFORE English rule, the Irish people ran their own affairs, with their own political and legal system. You are conveniently pretending the years of history prior to English rule do not exist.
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    (Original post by StarsAreFixed)
    I'd question what you would call the Black and Tans and Auxilliaries Lib?

    Nevermind the assumption that this will bring the IRA out in force, the policy itself is utter lunacy, and arrogance.

    I don't share this massive EU-skepticism. Yes the EU makes decisions, has a parliament and basically forced the Lisbon Treaty. We cannot control our currency and we're under pressure to lower corporation tax. HOWEVER, the euro is keeping Ireland afloat. The punt would have long collapsed at this stage- and don't suggest going back to sterling! Ireland still has its own government and senate and retains authority. The EU has funded our roads and infrastructure and has given massive amounts towards our bailout. That to me outweighs anything sinister about it. I think it's interesting that the UK benefits from the EU, does not have the power to hold referenda on EU law, retains its currency and despises the EU.
    Not that I support the suggestion that Ireland rejoin the UK, but in theory couldn't Ireland get the same benefits from being part of the UK? Pretty much everything you say could apply to Ireland if it were a part of the UK.

    Ireland would benefit from having a more stable currency, like it does with the Euro (and isn't the pound more stable than the Euro?).

    If it were to happen, I think it's pretty much a given that Ireland would have a devolved government with significant powers (like the Scottish government, but perhaps even more autonomous). So they'd still have a government with authority over issues related specifically to Ireland.

    Also as part of the UK, it would receive money from Westminster if it was needed to build infrastructure. You've got to remember that this would mean Ireland would be represented in Westminster, so they would have voting power over where UK money would be spent. Obviously the down side is that if things are going really well in Ireland, money raised in Ireland would end up being allocated to parts of the UK that are struggling.
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    (Original post by saoirse)
    So what? You cannot justify or negate oppression by couching it in a political rhetoric. Basically, you seem to be stating that because the Brits said Ireland was theirs as "an ordinary part of the United Kingdom", it then just was theirs :rolleyes:

    BEFORE English rule, the Irish people ran their own affairs, with their own political and legal system. You are conveniently pretending the years of history prior to English rule do not exist.
    What are counting as "English rule"? What time period do you mean? Do you mean prior to 1801, or do you mean prior to the Norman invasion in the 12th century?
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    (Original post by RandyMann)
    Whoever started this thread is a **** stirrer.
    +1
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    I think the others pretty much hit the nail on the head on them being forced to...

    apart from that, fat chance of it being good for the UK economically... look at the debt they've built up. they've just been bailed by the EU....
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    Na **** them its there choice
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    Why not a united ireland within the united kingdom?
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    (Original post by StarsAreFixed)
    Freedom of movement? I wouldn't imagine your roads needed funding, and I don't have time to look up other reasons, but I think that is a big one! Obviously, there are other benefits that the UK does not have because it's not extremely economically weak or in the eurozone. However, they are there should the UK need them/want them. God forbid if the UK needed a bailout, the EU/IMF would offer it on a plate. These are advantages to membership, even if not needed.


    I don't think 'forcing' Ireland to re-join, aside from how repugnant that is, can be considered a viable form of action. Ireland's constitution cannot be changed WHATSOEVER except by public referenda.

    LOL yes the IRA are terrorists, I do think it should be remembered that they are a tiny fraction of the population and that there are also numerous terrorist organisations on the other side. I do think though that the IRA's former incarnations- IRB, Fenians, Ribbonmen had some merit..but the IRA are just scumbags.

    As for the Rising- utter failure, sufferred so badly from poor planning and from O'Neill's orders, and yes was put down too heavily. Highly significant though, there's a lot to be said for creating martyrs. Connolly- please read up on him. Connolly was not a romantic writing poems about blood on battlefields. He was much older and much wiser than Pearse, he was only interested in an uprising as a means to acheive his aims- for the ICA and the IGWTU. Pearse was in a minority in the Supreme Council that planned the Rising- most were hardcore IRB members and ICA, not romantic teachers.
    So the only identifiable advantage ,and a query associated with that (?),is freedom of movement.For the Uk freedom of movement has meant uncontrolled ,and unsustainable,immigration to a country that has an extreme housing shortage ,and has alienated even further an 'under/working 'class that has historically been more disadvantaged than any similar class in the developed economic countries. In return for this politicians have emigrated to the ultimate gravy train in the world ,outside of corrupt dictatorships, an organization where the auditors have refused to sign off the accounts for something like 12 years. There may have been small movement of highly paid ,highly qualified ,professionals for some euro uber-jobs.Also there has been a movement of british capital to large areas of france and spain where economic activity had been either non-existant ,or declining.
    Lucky Eire that can only change the constitution with referenda. British people have only ever voted to belong to a common market ,not to a federal europe.Do a survey of your friends and ask them who their MEP is,the answer will show how undemocratic the EU is.
    ps German money has bailed out Eire ,but it was cheap German money that created the Celtic Tiger in the first place.
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    (Original post by RandyMann)
    Says a Brit!


    Says a what! What gave you that impression? Also, I know my location says Dublin, but I don't live there. I live very near it and spend a lot of time there, but I'm not from there. It's easier to give a broader location than my actual one, I don't want my location to be the only one of its kind on this website. I have no Dublin relations whatsoever, and neither of my parents are from there, or anywhere near it. But please, keep assuming I'm British despite all evidence to the contrary.

    I also fail to see how I am against Irish independence? I am not a raving Nationalist IRA head like you, but that does not make me some sort of 'West Brit' which I'm sure you'll call me next. I support Ireland's independence, I don't support 're-joining'. Which you'd notice if you actually read a whole post. You can spout 800 years and eire 32 all you like, but I would bet your actual knowledge of irish history beside boohoo famine boohoo rising, is minimal.
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    (Original post by Psyk)
    Not that I support the suggestion that Ireland rejoin the UK, but in theory couldn't Ireland get the same benefits from being part of the UK? Pretty much everything you say could apply to Ireland if it were a part of the UK.

    Ireland would benefit from having a more stable currency, like it does with the Euro (and isn't the pound more stable than the Euro?).

    If it were to happen, I think it's pretty much a given that Ireland would have a devolved government with significant powers (like the Scottish government, but perhaps even more autonomous). So they'd still have a government with authority over issues related specifically to Ireland.

    Also as part of the UK, it would receive money from Westminster if it was needed to build infrastructure. You've got to remember that this would mean Ireland would be represented in Westminster, so they would have voting power over where UK money would be spent. Obviously the down side is that if things are going really well in Ireland, money raised in Ireland would end up being allocated to parts of the UK that are struggling.


    In theory, probably. In reality, no. We have had devolved parliaments before. All resentment aside, really nobody would vote for this, on either side. It would bring the UK down. No matter how much in debt we are or how abysmal our government is (ie. currently falling apart), this would not be considered. I cannot see us doing well for a long time! Corporation tax MUST be kept low if we're to recover at all. And the bailout is a loan, that's going to hinder recovery paying that back.
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    (Original post by ThatCookieOne)
    Why in the world would the UK like to have 4 million enemies, a tarnished reputation in the world, a massive debt, the constant threat of guerrilla warfare to it's citizens and go down in history as "that country that just took over other countries because they felt like it".


    Why does this constant guerilla warfare thing keep appearing in posts! Really it is not a consideration these days.

    Also, you could argue the latter already happened?
 
 
 
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