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if you are pakistani/north indian which caste are u and do you think its important Watch

  • View Poll Results: which caste are you
    jatt indian
    12
    14.12%
    jatt pakistani
    6
    7.06%
    gujjar indian
    2
    2.35%
    gujjar pakistani
    2
    2.35%
    pashtuns
    5
    5.88%
    rajput indian
    1
    1.18%
    rajput pakistani
    2
    2.35%
    mixed
    3
    3.53%
    first im hearing off this caste
    9
    10.59%
    dont know dont care
    43
    50.59%

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    (Original post by kilowattjester)
    Why is this important? I want to know the history behind this caste system?

    Unrelated, but erm, I replied to your sig, and added your email address, and you are yet to reply? Sorry if you aren't doing it anymore haha, I was just wondering if you had received it....

    I could give you a pretty decent history of the caste system, but there will be people who know better than me, so....
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    Urm ..pashtuns/pakthuns/'ethnic Afghans or whatever else they're called isn't a caste :/
    It's an ethnicity and they don't work on caste basis. They work on tribal basis.
    So that doesn't count as part of your poll.
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    (Original post by soldier-4-life)
    well people of the same caste have somewhat similar groups for example jatts acan say their scythian etc and also pathans can say their ancestors were from afghanistan, rajputs can say that they were descendent of huns etc. Note that these origons are not precise and some may argue that i am giving wrong information but you cabn kind of get the jist lol
    They prefer pashtun/Pakthun/Or Afghan.

    They're not included in the Pakistani caste system as they're an ethnicity and have worked on their own tribal system for thousands of years.

    They were and are. I'm like fourth generation to be born in Britian but I have my cousins who still live in Afghanistan and those who live in the 'disputed area' pashtunistan and all consider their history to be from Afghanistan. And lol for the pashtuns your origons are completley precise.
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    (Original post by soldier-4-life)
    hi just noticed theres a large asian community and i realised that there are no stastics on castes in britain sorry i missed out on an important option neither of the above
    You've just realised?? im pakistani, i have no idea what caste I am (i don't think its any of the ones you've mentioned), and at present day i don't think it really matters.. people befriend/marry/soocialise with people of all castes.
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    What's the difference between tribes and castes?
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    (Original post by starsdream2)
    They prefer pashtun/Pakthun/Or Afghan.

    They're not included in the Pakistani caste system as they're an ethnicity and have worked on their own tribal system for thousands of years.

    They were and are. I'm like fourth generation to be born in Britian but I have my cousins who still live in Afghanistan and those who live in the 'disputed area' pashtunistan and all consider their history to be from Afghanistan. And lol for the pashtuns your origons are completley precise.
    All true.


    The caste system is frankly stupid imo but i'm not apart of it since i'm Afghan/Pukhtun, one thing though that i noticed is that 'Pathans' in India like Shah Rukh Khan are usually succsesful (possibly because of lighter skin? i dunno) so maybe they are higher in the caste system.

    But i don't care tbh, its a stupid system and needs to go.
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    I'm Pakistani, but I had no idea that a caste system even existed in Pakistan

    I thought that only happened in India with Sikhs and Hindus... the Jatt and ''Untouchables''. My school is majority Indian and a few years ago all you heard was i'm a JATT BLAD, don't mess. Lulz.
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    (Original post by Hooovan*)
    I'm not telling you. It doesn't matter, and no I don't think it's important at all.

    (North Indian)
    Obvious Dalit is obvious.

    /kidding
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    (Original post by Chengis)
    All true.


    The caste system is frankly stupid imo but i'm not apart of it since i'm Afghan/Pukhtun, one thing though that i noticed is that 'Pathans' in India like Shah Rukh Khan are usually succsesful (possibly because of lighter skin? i dunno) so maybe they are higher in the caste system.

    But i don't care tbh, its a stupid system and needs to go.
    Hi5

    With Shah Rukh Khan I think it was something like his great grandfather who was pashtun so yeah Indians with some pashtun descent could possibly be in the caste system.

    I've always been confused when my Pakistani friends/parents have talked about caste. It's so alien.
    I'm glad I'm just a boring Britsh Pakthun
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    (Original post by starsdream2)
    They prefer pashtun/Pakthun/Or Afghan.

    They're not included in the Pakistani caste system as they're an ethnicity and have worked on their own tribal system for thousands of years.

    They were and are. I'm like fourth generation to be born in Britian but I have my cousins who still live in Afghanistan and those who live in the 'disputed area' pashtunistan and all consider their history to be from Afghanistan. And lol for the pashtuns your origons are completley precise.
    By pashtunistan you mean nwfp if so that is not really a disputed area. Kashmir is but nwfp has always been part of pakistan. Correct me if im wrong.
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    (Original post by starsdream2)
    I'm glad I'm just a boring Britsh Pakthun

    Hear hear!


    (Original post by soldier-4-life)
    By pashtunistan you mean nwfp if so that is not really a disputed area. Kashmir is but nwfp has always been part of pakistan. Correct me if im wrong.
    Pashtunistan consists of the areas of Pakistan and Afghanistan with traditionally large Pashtun populations. This is along the Durrand line which the Afghans have never acknowledged and do not recognise. So it is disputed.
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    (Original post by soldier-4-life)
    By pashtunistan you mean nwfp if so that is not really a disputed area. Kashmir is but nwfp has always been part of pakistan. Correct me if im wrong.
    Disputed in many ways.

    The Durand line isn't accepted by many tribes both side of the border and if you ask them about the line and what they think about it. They laugh and say the land is Afghan land. It's quite easy to see how they don't invest in it with people being able to pop across the border for a few hours.

    There was and still is a movement to have the land being 're-uinted with its rightful owners'. My cousin was lectured for being 'spineless and british' whilst his land was occupied. He lives in 'Pashtunistan'

    There's also a larger movement to have the area be independent and have responsibility for their own affairs seperate from Pakistani rule. This is very predominant.

    As well as people the Afghan government have numerous times declared the Durand line is void and they don't recognize it. ' the Afghan government declared that it recognized "neither the imaginary Durand nor any similar line" and that all previous Durand Line agreements were void.[29] They also announced that the Durand ethnic division line had been imposed on them under coercion/duress and was a diktat' .....the Afghan government also doesn't accept the border. The Afghan government ( I'm not sure of the present day government's stance) have also said the land is theirs and that you can't seperate Afghans from one another etc.

    Thus can be described as disputed between the two countries and the pashtuns who were split
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    (Original post by bunty64)
    isn't that where the majority of uk pakistnis come from? Especially pakistanis up north.
    I don't really know in all honesty, but you may be right. Saying that, a friend of mine is from Islamabad

    (Original post by bunty64)
    Isn't the heavy uk influence got to do with large a large kashmiri expat population in the north of england?
    This could be so, but universities, schools etc.. also advertise their. Some school's have links with Cambridge to try and improve their education standards.

    (Original post by bunty64)
    don't they have a kashmiri tribe?
    I don't think they have such a thing as Kashmiri tribe, though there are lots if little villages(like ours)
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    I'm Jatt (Indian-Origin).

    Personally, it doesn't mean much to me, and I don't think much of the caste system. It's primitive. It's outdated. You don't see Whites burning witches anymore do you?

    In the past, our people have shown themselves to be weak, and continue to be so because we constantly separate ourselves. If we focused more on our common identity as Indians (or Indian-origin), we would all grow stronger and more privileged.
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    When did the caste system come to be around and how was each person put into each type? Can't someone just pretend they are the top one, is there a way to prove it?
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    [QUOTE=starsdream2;29116136]Disputed in ma

    thanks for the very detailed answer but surely khyber pakhtunwa was always part of India and the pakhtuns actually migrated and settled in2 the nwfp? So it was never really part of Afghanistan.
    I would say that nwfp should stay with Pakistan because pakhtuns have contributed and made pakistani cultre. Many of the great pakistanis have been pakhtuns such as ayub khan and many of the great pakhtuns have been pakistani.
    Anyway if pashtunistan was created what would become of pakistan and afghanistan. they would both lose big chunks no?

    Anyway Afghanistan is home to large Tajiki, Uzbekhi, ( 2 big ones who are a majority in certain regions. tajikistan snd uzbekistan could claim these regions aswell.
    Majority of pakistani pakhtuns say that they are and always will be pakistani and pakhtun. They say that there is no need for nwfp to form pashtunistan what do u think
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    Can't tell you cos i don't care, beyond knowing your origins, the idea of using caste to segregate or create a hierarchy amongst people is some serious bull****.
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    (Original post by soldier-4-life)
    Disputed in ma

    thanks for the very detailed answer but surely khyber pakhtunwa was always part of India and the pakhtuns actually migrated and settled in2 the nwfp? So it was never really part of Afghanistan.
    I would say that nwfp should stay with Pakistan because pakhtuns have contributed and made pakistani cultre. Many of the great pakistanis have been pakhtuns such as ayub khan and many of the great pakhtuns have been pakistani.
    Anyway if pashtunistan was created what would become of pakistan and afghanistan. they would both lose big chunks no?

    Anyway Afghanistan is home to large Tajiki, Uzbekhi, ( 2 big ones who are a majority in certain regions. tajikistan snd uzbekistan could claim these regions aswell.
    Majority of pakistani pakhtuns say that they are and always will be pakistani and pakhtun. They say that there is no need for nwfp to form pashtunistan what do u think
    I wrote a very long answer but then losing my internet connection it all got deleted so since I can't be asked to write it again. I'll give a summarised one.

    1) 'The area in which the Durand Line runs has been inhabited by the indigenous Pakhtuns[1] since ancient time, at least since 500 B.C'

    The resulting Durand Line Agreement or Durand Line Treaty would ensure the carving out of a new province called North-West Frontier Province (NWFP) out of annexed areas from Afghanistan, which are currently part of Pakistan and includes the Federally Administered Tribal Areas (FATA) and Frontier Regions

    The reason 'Ethnic Afghan' was and is still used as a synonym for pashtun was because the pashtuns lived there for many many years.

    So in reference to your point it's wrong. Unless you are reffering to when the agreement was drawn up which was by the British Raj. The Afghan people who ended up on the other side of the border were given only two options to be part of Pakistan or India ( Note no leave us be option) and thus chose Pakistan whom inherited the line in 1947.

    2) This was as an effort of the Pakistani governemnt to try intergrate a people whom they knew could be and were openly hostile and felt split from their ethnic land and peoples. Pakthuns have contributed to Pakistan yes but again they've contribued to Afghanistan for thousands upon thousands of years. They were split without consultation and evidently show much contempt for the line. In fact it's somewhat of a joke. You can pass the border to visit a wedding for a few hours then come back with no documents. In fact there have been cases where Pashtuns who've crossed the border into Afghanistan with a passport have been killed and seen as traitors to their peoples. You can say it should remain a part of Pakistan ( disputed) but you can't dispute the fact that the pashtuns will always choose pashtuns in disputes and their loyalty will always be with them.

    3) When you consider the original agreement was written in english which the Afghan ruler didn't understand and the fact the public were unaware of what was going to happen until it happened you can see why there's such a large movement. Especially with stories of the Pakistani armies atrocities against pashtuns by the border.

    4) There's a large movement and with the ^ it could grow even bigger. My opinion is the Pakistani government needs to recognize you can't split an ethnicity and just place a nationality on an indvidual and say 'your history now lies with us'splitting them from thousand and thousands of years of history and ties espcially when you consider with the inheritance of the line/ or say even when it was drawn up so say 60 or 100 years that's only like 3 generations ago when these people were Afghan nationally as well as 'ethnic Afghans'

    5) Apparently I am a smidge Hazara. And of course Tajiks, Hazaras and Uzbeks are part of Afghanistan and rightly so! But I don't see what your point about them has to do with anything. The tajiks are Afghans and damn proud of it.

    6) As a fourth/third generation British pashtun I'm just that. A boring British Pakthun. The 'tribe' my family are part of are called 'one of the oldest Afghan tribes' but were split and ended up on the NWFP side which again sort of conveys how you can't just try and stamp a nationality on someone and regard their ethnicity which had always been linked to their nationality. They call themselves Pashtuns/Afghans first. My other cousins who live in Afghanistan and weren't part of the split would have it no other way. For the thousands of young pakthuns like me detached from it all it seems to be a black and white issue. If anyone asks me what I am I say a Britsh Pashtun. If they ask what a pashtun is I say an Afghan. If they ask where my 'history' is from I say Afghanistan as that where's my we've come from for thousands of years and regardless of a line split pashtuns still in a sense do.

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    (Original post by starsdream2)
    I wrote a very long answer but then losing my internet connection it all got deleted so since I can't be asked to write it again.
    happens to me all the time, takes the piss doesn't it :|

    (Original post by soldier-4-life)
    but surely khyber pakhtunwa was always part of India and the pakhtuns actually migrated and settled in2 the nwfp? So it was never really part of Afghanistan


    That is the Durrani Empire (known as the Pashtun or Afghan Empire <--All the leaders were Pashtun and the official language was Pashtun) before the British Raj came along (moreorless) and attacked.

    It is because of this that Sikhs are common in Kabul (well before the Taliban). So you see the Pashtuns conquered much land and Pashtun influnce on culture etc spread. See that the Durrand line lies in the center of this empire where the tribal Pashtun lands have been for thousands of years.

    The British conquered up to the Punjab and Kashmir but lots of Pakistan was still under Afghan control:

    (Afghanistan just before the Durrand line agreement in 1893)


    So the British drew up a line which they thought would weaken and divide the Afghans so that they wouldn't pose anymore threats to the British India dominion (they were wrong - see Third Anglo-Afghan War)....bottom line is the Durrand line area is ethnic Pashtun, has been for thousands of years, Pashtuns don't recognize any border seperating them and neither has the Afghan government.
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    (Original post by bunty64)
    aren't the pashtuns a fairly large ethnic group? They do have various different tribal groupings (although may not be as relevant to pashtun diasporas)
    Yes you are spot on, pashtuns are very tribal as I am personally from a khattak tribe. But our tribal grouping is more about loyalty and identity rater then hierachy like the caste system. There is a difference betweeen tribe and caste. I do not support the tribal nature of pashtuns either.
 
 
 
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