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    (Original post by d123)
    If, God forbid, any of my relatives were ever murdered, I wouldn't want to see the person responsible killed for it. My morals don't go out the window just because I've been personally affected by something. I would far rather see the person rehabilitated than pointlessly executed. I'm aware I'm clearly in a minority here, but if I'm grieving over the death of a loved one, I wouldn't want anyone else to die as a result of that, no matter what they've done.

    And again, referring to your second paragraph, I honestly believe that rehabilitation is the way forward. It's far far better for someone to serve 5 years, then be able to leave prison and become a reformed and productive member of society than to rot away in prison with no chance to ever make a positive difference. Sometimes rehabilitation doesn't work, that's true but if more were invested in it that would be a far more desirable option. What's the point of someone rotting away in prison when they could be making a positive difference? Revenge brings society nowhere.
    You said "sometimes rehabilitation doesn't work" sometimes, are you mad! two thirds of inmates re-offend, it hardly ever works. Once a criminal, always a criminal. I'm sure your views would change if a loved one died, depending on the severity of the murder too. Say your mum was raped, tortured, burnt and her body parts chopped up would you still want the evil, sick minded and twisted man to try and re-form, so that he can be released from prison and most likely re-offend, possibly taking more lives.
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    (Original post by Travis1)
    You said "sometimes rehabilitation doesn't work" sometimes, are you mad! two thirds of inmates re-offend, it hardly ever works. Once a criminal, always a criminal. I'm sure your views would change if a loved one died, depending on the severity of the murder too. Say your mum was raped, tortured, burnt and her body parts chopped up would you still want the evil, sick minded and twisted man to try and re-form, so that he can be released from prison and most likely re-offend, possibly taking more lives.
    The only reason it doesn't always work is because not enough effort is put in. Unfortunately the justice system is far too focussed on revenge and retribution. If more was invested in rehabilitation, for example, training people so they can get a decent job, people would be less likely to reoffend. Of course they reoffend if on release they can't get a job and are completely ostracised by society. What other option would you have? But if appropriate investment is put in to ensure that they have a job upon release and that society doesn't see them as a criminal, then they have a chance of making a good life for themselves.

    'Once a criminal, always a criminal' is the biggest piece of nonsense I've ever heard.
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    (Original post by d123)
    The only reason it doesn't always work is because not enough effort is put in. Unfortunately the justice system is far too focussed on revenge and retribution. If more was invested in rehabilitation, for example, training people so they can get a decent job, people would be less likely to reoffend. Of course they reoffend if on release they can't get a job and are completely ostracised by society. What other option would you have? But if appropriate investment is put in to ensure that they have a job upon release and that society doesn't see them as a criminal, then they have a chance of making a good life for themselves.

    'Once a criminal, always a criminal' is the biggest piece of nonsense I've ever heard.
    Well before they commit the crime they realise that they're going to struggle once in prison and once they leave, it's their choice to commit the crime so they have to deal with the consequences that will come, for instance being unempoyed, no money, no home. They're too blame no one else.
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    (Original post by Travis1)
    You said "sometimes rehabilitation doesn't work" sometimes, are you mad! two thirds of inmates re-offend, it hardly ever works. Once a criminal, always a criminal. I'm sure your views would change if a loved one died, depending on the severity of the murder too. Say your mum was raped, tortured, burnt and her body parts chopped up would you still want the evil, sick minded and twisted man to try and re-form, so that he can be released from prison and most likely re-offend, possibly taking more lives.
    But the prison system is NOT rehabilition its punishment, its like sit in the corner and write lines because you called a kid in class an idiot. Punishment breeds hatred, it makes people feel like they are bad and defective which then leads them to actually become more and more bad and defective. Not to mention they come into regular contact with other criminals this doesnt really help does it. Id argue it makes it worse. I honestly think people who commit crime should have help in both terms of education, psychological and mental well being, and also should do hard labour which is beneficial for all.
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    Would you the justice system to toughen up on sentences?
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    (Original post by Travis1)
    Well before they commit the crime they realise that they're going to struggle once in prison and once they leave, it's their choice to commit the crime so they have to deal with the consequences that will come, for instance being unempoyed, no money, no home. They're too blame no one else.
    Well people commit crime because they cant get a job, because theyve grown up in hellholes where everyone does commit crimes.

    So you dont think that when richer get even richer such as in the case of the man who owns topshop dodging more tax than student fees have been raised by. And society which is so disgustingly biased in favour of the rich that is completely the poor peoples fault they are poor. And rich people who are born rich its their fault that they grew up in more desirable conditions and probably never had to deal with harsh conditions in life that might make them want to commit a crime in the first place.
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    Hey there supposed to be bringing back the lethal injection in the UK. don't know when though.
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    (Original post by Travis1)
    Would you the justice system to toughen up on sentences?
    I refer you to the study by Hough and Roberts and many others in which they showed that the public would sentence more leniently than the judges actually do. Most people who participated were genuninely surprised to find they were being too lenient.

    I refer you to Bottoms and Tonry's work on the public and sentencing. The public believe the media who exagerrate the length of sentences. They call for longer and worse sentences. The government agree because they do not want to lose votes. This goes unreported. The media carry on exagerrating. The public carry on being misled. The government carry on trying to get votes.

    The British Justice System is tougher than people think.
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    (Original post by markberry91)
    Hey there supposed to be bringing back the lethal injection in the UK. don't know when though.
    Lol wut?

    Nobody is bringing back any form of the death penalty in the UK. It's not even a talking point.
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    They don't need to bring back the death penalty- they need to make prisons tougher and take away the luxuries, such as the TVs. Life should mean life, rather than twelve to fourteen years.

    How is using the dealth penalty on murderers any different than what the killers did? You don't get to decide that someone should die, no matter what they've done. The only difference between the death penalty and murder is that the death penalty would be allowed by the law.

    Killing someone because they murdered someone is murder.
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    (Original post by d123)
    The death penalty doesn't work. There's no evidence that is has a deterrent effect, it can cause serious problems with miscarriage of justice, it's inhumane, it doesn't allow for rehabilitation, which should be the primary aim of a justice system.
    Also looking at the death penalty in America, it's a shockingly bad system. There have been numerous accusations of racism, in addition being held on death row is almost like torture, in that often prisoners are taken to be executed, then have the execution postponed at the last moment, only to be finally killed later on - this is horribly psychologically damaging.

    Due to imprisonment on death row, it could also be argued that the death penalty is in effect punishing the person twice - firstly, they get an undetermined jail sentence, and then they are killed.

    In addition, there is evidence that the death penalty has a brutalising effect on society.

    Of course, if you're strongly in favour of the death penalty, none of these arguments are likely to convince you, because you'll likely be approaching the justice system from a position of punishment rather than rehabilitation.
    Excellent post (+ repped)

    I can't be bothered to make the arguments because any idiot can look them up, it's pretty well known that rehabilitative justice works better then retributive. Indeed, i'll point out that Japan has one of the highest early release rates but a shockingly low reoffence rate. This is a good book on the subject if interested (and one most uni libraries have)
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    (Original post by Travis1)
    All I'm saying I think it's sickening knowing you get "life" imprisonment when really you spend 12-14 years just for being 'good' in prison. In my opinion if you take someone's life your life should be taken from you, death or not death you should either be executed or actually sentenced to life imprisonment without the chance of parole. Also, if you commit a murder clearly you have something wrong with you, mentally, no one in the right frame of mind goes around killing someone, I'm sure none of us would on here. I think you are ALWAYS a threat to the public, if you've killed someone before then you're capable of doing it again, which is a fact.
    It is reaaaally easy to show that everyone is capable of murder, its part of being humans, as we are not perfect beings, we are animals with slightly higher mental capasities than our cousins. Its not about being capable, its about willing and wanting to do it
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    Balls to the wall awesome?
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    We should discipline more of the little thugs we have in this country that's for sure.
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    even 12 years is a long time, granted some people will always want to punish them more but even in 12 years time.... If I went to prison now and got out 12 years from now everything would be different, I would have almost no friends, my family would know very little about who I had become so I would have trouble relating to them, it would be horrible and I wouldnt know what to do with myself. I think there should be a line, like either lock up up till they die or keep them until they have been PROPERLY rehabilitated
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    (Original post by Fuzzed_Out)


    Balls to the wall awesome?
    wow how idiotic americans/american media is. Do people honestly watch this stupid box and take everything they see on it as truth.
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    As someone who's been through the justice system, I'll say it's totally balls and the weight of evidence is always on the prosecution. It's alot more difficult to prove "beyond reasonable doubt" that someone committed a crime than it is to put a shred of doubt in a jurys mind. It's extremely difficult to wrongly convict someone of a crime.
    However, there's still that 1% of cases where someone is wrongly convicted. That alone is enough to discredit the death penalty. Let alone the fact that it's barbaric. No-one has the right to take another's life. Life imprisonment, I do agree with.
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    (Original post by Teveth)
    Lol wut?

    Nobody is bringing back any form of the death penalty in the UK. It's not even a talking point.
    Even when there was a very large Conservative majority in the 1980s it was not brought back. Leslie Grantham (actor, used to be on Eastenders) is a convicted murderer (in 1967) and if we'd kept the death penalty, probably would have been hanged. Ironically I suspect most of the people who watch Eastenders would favour the death penalty, so they were enjoying acting by a man they in a sense wished had been hung.
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    (Original post by Travis1)
    You said "sometimes rehabilitation doesn't work" sometimes, are you mad! two thirds of inmates re-offend, it hardly ever works.
    More than two thirds of inmates re offend, and thats because our system DOESNT focus on rehabilitation. I would agree that our current system is rubbish because there is so much re-offending, we lock up criminals with other criminals where they go through hell and become even more hardened than before. That doesn't mean the only other option is to murder them.

    (Original post by Travis1)
    Once a criminal, always a criminal. I'm sure your views would change if a loved one died, depending on the severity of the murder too. Say your mum was raped, tortured, burnt and her body parts chopped up would you still want the evil, sick minded and twisted man to try and re-form, so that he can be released from prison and most likely re-offend, possibly taking more lives.
    Once a criminal always a criminal? So someone who committed manslaughter in self defence will leave prison and will inevitably kill again? Thats ridiculous.

    If that happened to my mother my soul concern would be to discover why it happened. Find the root cause of the crime, what things made the criminals mind so messed up in the first place, and try to prevent it happening to anybody else. As the greiving one I would obviously hate this criminal but this doesn't give me the right to murder them, nothing does.
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    (Original post by Jmzie-Coupe)
    We should discipline more of the little thugs we have in this country that's for sure.
    Or educate people on how to raise children properly.
 
 
 
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