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Israel joining NATO? watch

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    I think Israel should be given a place in NATO.

    NATO is not an organisation based on geographical location, but a common stance and ideals.

    Turkey, a member of NATO for decades is not necessarily 'European', but its ideals of freedom, capitalism, secularism and etc make it a great NATO ally.


    Furthermore, Israel is under threat by many nations. As a stable democracy, we in the West should extend our assistance to Israel by giving them a commitment of protection, so Muslim countries do not attack it. Also, if Israel is in NATO, then it will be easier to negotiate with them on issues such as the security barriers and evacuations and etc.
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    (Original post by 1984198419841984)
    Turkey, a member of NATO for decades is not necessarily 'European', but its ideals of freedom, capitalism, secularism and etc make it a great NATO ally.
    5 minutes ago on the freedom fighters thread you said "Turkey should be punished for holding talks with Hammas"

    I'm confused. Is is a great ally or one that should be punished for exercising its ideals of freedom by talking to people?
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    Turkey is a great ally, do not have a doubt about that. I'm just saying that they should accept that it was a serious mistake to hold talks with Hamas.

    Otherwise, Turkey, especially since WW2 has been an obedient and loyal ally.
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    (Original post by 1984198419841984)
    Turkey is a great ally, do not have a doubt about that.
    Anyway, why are they are "great ally" exactly? Seems a bit of an unearned accolade. What have they done that's so fantastic?
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    (Original post by Howard)
    Anyway, why are they are "great ally" exactly? Seems a bit of an unearned accolade. What have they done that's so fantastic?
    Well bearing in mind the fact that they are a Eurasian, Muslim country, they supported the Western world in -
    • WW2,
    • Korean War,
    • Cold War (Turkey was for the US, what Cuba was for the Soviet Union)
    • Gulf War I
    • War on Afghanistan
    • War on Terrorism


    Furthermore, Turkey is a free, democratic and laicite country, the only beacon of freedom in the Muslim world.
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    (Original post by 1984198419841984)
    Well bearing in mind the fact that they are a Eurasian, Muslim country, they supported the Western world in -
    • WW2,
    • Korean War,
    • Cold War (Turkey was for the US, what Cuba was for the Soviet Union)
    • Gulf War I
    • War on Afghanistan
    • War on Terrorism


    Furthermore, Turkey is a free, democratic and laicite country, the only beacon of freedom in the Muslim world.
    If they're secular, how the hell are they also a Muslim country? And didn't they in fact NOT allow the US to drive their tanks through Turkey to get to Iraq, or to park their bombers there?
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    (Original post by Agent Smith)
    If they're secular, how the hell are they also a Muslim country? And didn't they in fact NOT allow the US to drive their tanks through Turkey to get to Iraq, or to park their bombers there?
    I certainly denied the coalition ground space in Gulf War II and I think they were very reluctant to allow the use of their air space as well.
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    (Original post by Agent Smith)
    If they're secular, how the hell are they also a Muslim country? And didn't they in fact NOT allow the US to drive their tanks through Turkey to get to Iraq, or to park their bombers there?
    Turkey is a Muslim country in the same way in which France is a Christian country. It still is a secular country. To be secular, you do not have to be atheist.

    I practice my religion, but I believe in the complete separation of church and the state.

    Secondly, Turkey is not too keen on Gulf War II, like the majority of the world, and the majority of NATO itself.
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    OK. Gotcha. Still, I sincerely hope Turkey's not as much like France as you say. Keeping religious fingers out of government is one thing - and in my view a very good thing - but the enforced laïcité of France that bans, for example, the hijab in State schools, is quite, quite another.
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    (Original post by Howard)
    I certainly denied the coalition ground space in Gulf War II
    Did you indeed? I let them use my drive. :p:
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    (Original post by Agent Smith)
    but the enforced laïcité of France that bans, for example, the hijab in State schools, is quite, quite another.
    France banned ALL religious symbols in schools. Christian crosses, Jewish kippot, Muslim hijabs, Sikh daggers - everything. The fact that people pick out the hijab and refer to the ban in that context just shows that one religion is a lot more demanding and pissier than others.
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    Jews are from Palestine but the Romans kicked them out 2,000 years ago and they lived in Europe where they rubbed Europeans up the wrong way for 2,000 years and were widely persecuted until Israel was created after the war for them. So are they European?

    Occurences of Persecution, slaughter, deportation of jews.

    Africa
    1147 - 1212
    1790, 1792

    Arabia
    624 - 628

    Austria
    1298 - 100,000 Jews were killed over a 6 month period
    1420

    America
    1654
    1862

    Babylon
    586 BC
    468, 470

    Baveria
    1551

    Belgium
    1370

    Chekoslovakia
    1745

    Denmark
    0 - 1700

    Egypt
    1571 BC
    38BC
    3BC
    66AD

    England
    1130
    1189
    1290 - 1655 - Jews are exiled from England. About 16,000 left the
    country.

    Ethiopia
    1950's
    1985, 1992

    France
    561
    1182
    1242
    1306 - 100,000 Jews are exiled from France
    1394 - Jews were exiled, for the second time, from France.
    1540
    1682

    Germany
    1012
    1146-1147
    1510
    1614
    1933 - 1945

    Holland
    1582 - Jews were expelled.

    Hungary
    1360
    1582
    1717 - 1789

    Italy
    1492
    1540 - 1593 - Jews were exiled.
    1846 - 1878

    Iraq
    1969

    Jerusalem
    70
    324

    Libya
    1948

    Lithuania
    1495

    Mongolia
    1919

    Netherlands
    1444

    Norway
    1814

    poland
    1453
    1795
    1882
    1938 - 1946

    Portugal
    1498 - 20,000 Jews were banished from Portugal.

    Prussia
    1510

    Rome
    315
    379

    Russia
    1100
    1772 - 1862
    1881
    1991

    Saxony
    1349

    Slovakia
    1380
    1744

    Spain
    612 - 621
    694
    1321
    1391
    1492

    Sweden
    0 - 1792

    Switzerland
    1939
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    Israel shouldn't even exist. The correct term for that area is the illegally occupied territory of Palestine. I don't think states that have been illegaly set up should join NATO, especially ones that are quite far away from the north atlantic. Also, what have NATO done in the last decade apart from the whole 'war on terror' thing (ie helping the US police the world)?
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    And another moron. That's not the correct term for the area, 'tard.
    And sorry, "states that have been illegaly set up" - so when the UN gave the Jews the land for Israel and allowed them to create it, them declaring Independence was "illegaly setting up Israel"? And when the UN accepted Israel shortly afterwards? What was that?

    Do yourself a favour and get an education, idiot.
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    That land was occupied by the Palestinians when the jews were forced out, so it's the Palestinians who are the illegal occupiers.
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    (Original post by OakBeans)
    So are they European?

    Occurences of Persecution, slaughter, deportation of jews.

    *lots of numbers*
    I'm not sure what exactly your statistics are trying to prove but the fact that many of the states you mention either are not even in Europe or didn't even exist at the time the supposed prosecution took place sort of destroys its credibility...

    But generally, I think that Israel is too dangerous coutry to join NATO...
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    (Original post by baghee)
    I'm not sure what exactly your statistics are trying to prove but the fact that many of the states you mention either are not even in Europe or didn't even exist at the time the supposed prosecution took place sort of destroys its credibility...

    But generally, I think that Israel is too dangerous coutry to join NATO...
    If danger is the criteria for admission, surely the US should be kicked out of NATO then...
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    Indeed, the entire nuclear club by definition.
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    (Original post by JonathanH)
    And another moron. That's not the correct term for the area, 'tard.
    And sorry, "states that have been illegaly set up" - so when the UN gave the Jews the land for Israel and allowed them to create it, them declaring Independence was "illegaly setting up Israel"? And when the UN accepted Israel shortly afterwards? What was that?

    Do yourself a favour and get an education, idiot.
    Whats the point in calling me a moron and a 'tard, can't you debate without randomly hurling abuse? Israel was illegally set up, if the UN gave some people your country while you were living there would that be okay? Did the Palestinians say "yeah make yourself at home, I'll go somewhere else" in 1947? The Palestinians had lived in Palestine for just as long if not longer than the Jews and they coexisted with the Jews when they were there thousands of years ago. If the Italians came back to Britain saying we were here thaousands of years ago so now we're back and you have to go away what would you do? Jews had been moving back to palestine since the early twentieth century and had lived okay with the Palestinians, yeah there were problems, but it only got really bad when Isael was set up and the Palestinians got moved to the least fertile lands and land disproportionate to their population.
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    Tensions between the Jews and Arabs started to emerge after the 1880s, when European Jews began to immigrate and augment Palestinian Jewish communities by buying land from Ottoman and individual Arab landholders, and establishing agricultural settlements in the historic lands of Judea and Israel, which were then part of the Ottoman empire.
    Then the area became part of British jurisdiction. Then because Emil Faisal (King of Syria and after Iraq) wanted influence from his western friends, who lest us not forget had a huge influence on this part of the world, he signed the Faisal-Weizmann Agreement in 1919. This was signed with Chaim Weizmann, later President of the World Zionist Organization; and agreed to the setting up of an Jewish homeland.
    Needless to say the majority of people (Palestinians) disagreed with this blatant support for the Jews, and more importantly the implication of giving more of their land to Jewish settlers. This lead to the 1920 riots.
    So please tell me in what way the Jews had a right to live there apart from some ancient ethnic history? Should we claim the U.S. and Australia back because we discovered and populated the lands years ago?
    So less of the moron calling please!
 
 
 
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