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Leave Private Schools Alone! - Thread To End The Private School Debate. watch

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    (Original post by Officegirl4)
    I'm undecided about private schools.

    I can see why people think they are a good thing in that they give some kids great education and a great start in life.
    However, there are people that would benefit hugely from a private education but because of their wealth, cannot access this through no fault of their own and so that's not fair on them.

    The thing that really annoys me about private schools are the people that don't try! they're parents have shelled out thousands on their education and they come out with nothing at the end of it because they haven't tried. The education they received could have gone to someone who was willing to try and work their ass off, but because they don't come from a wealthy family they don't have the opportunity.
    No fault of them own, we live in a country where librarys are free get a textbook/pen and paper, "bobs your uncle".... instead you get kids from deprived backgrounds sitting there with a 10 bag, lighting up....

    We live in a country where if you put the time and effort to get a job and work, you can make money..... and let those who work the hearts out spend it on the luxuries such a private education.
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    (Original post by deedee123)
    So a rich student and a poor student are going for a scholarship place. The rich student has access to study guides, private tuition and support from people who probably have some sort of academic background, paid by their parents. Then you have the poor student with poor resources and possibly not a lot of emotional support at home. Who do you think is more likely to get in? the end result will see the same rich children there, only you've given them it for free-with a few particularly gifted poor children.
    There parents have earned the right to give there children, the best possible education. If that poor student parents, perhaps got an extra job, heck there crying out for staff at McDonalds, Burger King, KFC...... Theres enough time and hours in the day to make £££....in other countries people work a lot longer hours then we do here!...as for emotional support forget that.....success is support in itself....
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    If you're honestly stupid enough to think this is 'the thread to end all threads' then clearly the stellar education I presume daddy paid for has been wasted on you.

    Sorry I couldn't resist.

    Most of what you're saying is entirely true. Private schooling isn't fair, but nothing is. I'd like to think I'm no longer naive enough to think getting rid of it is an option.
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    (Original post by Hal.E.Lujah)
    See now you're just stating your own beliefs. If this was the case, we wouldn't even be having this debate and I would be on benefits. Suitability to attend university can be leveraged with financial backing (thanks to private institutions) but it isn't the sole factor, otherwise there would be nobody at university who didn't go to a private school.
    I never said financial backing was the sole factor. What I'm saying is, along with natural ability, a good standard of education is also required, in the relevant subjects. Even the smartest person in the world couldn't just go and do biology at university if he's never been educated properly in it.

    Of course people from state schools can still get into university, because many state schools provide their children with excellent education, even on par with many private schools. But then if we're aiming for fairness, then surely we would also need to reduce the standards of these state schools as well, rather than just banning private schools. Isn't it unfair that one child goes to a much better state school than another?

    If we attempt to create a society in which education is fair, and every school is equal, then it's inevitable that the standards of the most educated people (i.e. those currently more suitable for university in general) have to drop.

    I agree that it's not just a low level priority, but that attempting to change this would be catastrophic. I genuinely don't believe private schools should or would ever be banned, simply because we don't live in an ideal world and nobody really wants to. But I will happily point out that they have a negative impact on society and will be looked at by historians in the centuries to come in happy little essays about oligarchy.
    A negative effect on society compared to what though?
    If you're comparing the current situation to a society where everyone gets an education of quality on par with our top private schools, then I agree with you. (Though that seems almost impossible to achieve.)
    But if you're comparing it to a society where all the educational resources we currently have are spread evenly but thinly across the population, and everyone receives an equal but relatively poor education, then I disagree. Education, just like pretty much anything, becomes less useful if it is divided and diluted too much.

    I'm not really sure what oligarchy has got to do with it.
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    (Original post by HumanSupremacist)
    What? Why? Why on Earth would you ban private institutions that provide services to those who are able and free to afford it?

    So you would ban SpaceX? Mars? Toys R Us?
    I've never shopped at Toys R Us and I hate Mars bars ahaha. I will admit ignorance here - I'd love a world where everything could be controlled by the state but have no idea how this would ever truly come about. So, obviously there will always be some private services. But health care and education especially should have equal ground in my opinion.
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    (Original post by eelnais)
    I've never shopped at Toys R Us and I hate Mars bars ahaha. I will admit ignorance here - I'd love a world where everything could be controlled by the state but have no idea how this would ever truly come about. So, obviously there will always be some private services. But health care and education especially should have equal ground in my opinion.
    Then why would any off us going to work in the morning, I would be quite happy collecting JSA payments, rather than pay private health insurance....
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    (Original post by SloaneRanger)
    Then why would any off us going to work in the morning, I would be quite happy collecting JSA payments, rather than pay private health insurance....
    Lots of people don't pay for private health insurance and go to work...?
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    (Original post by eelnais)
    Lots of people don't pay for private health insurance and go to work...?
    I mean't with equal health care, if i knew I was going to get equal provisionals I wouldn't bother stepping foot outside of my door..... same with school for any kids I might potentially have. Alot of people that go to private schools, there parents take out payment plans/loans etc which stimulate the economy.... other parents as you say choose to send there kids to state schools and spend it on frivolous holidays and boobs jobs. Its called self sacrifice......
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    (Original post by eelnais)
    I've never shopped at Toys R Us and I hate Mars bars ahaha. I will admit ignorance here - I'd love a world where everything could be controlled by the state but have no idea how this would ever truly come about. So, obviously there will always be some private services. But health care and education especially should have equal ground in my opinion.
    But individual have freedom. Hence, individuals or private entities would have the freedom to set up private hospitals an private schools - unless you wish to take away this freedom?
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    (Original post by SloaneRanger)
    I mean't with equal health care, if i knew I was going to get equal provisionals I wouldn't bother stepping foot outside of my door..... same with school for any kids I might potentially have. Alot of people that go to private schools, there parents take out payment plans/loans etc which stimulate the economy.... other parents as you say choose to send there kids to state schools and spend it on frivolous holidays and boobs jobs. Its called self sacrifice......
    That's you though. Most people go to state schools and rely on the NHS and they still get up and go to work. Not everyone is lazy or lacks incentive just because other people have the same opportunities as them. It is not a choice to send your child to a state school the majority of the time. Parents cannot afford it. That is something very difficult for someone who has been to a private school without a scholarship to understand I think. (And parents who send their kids to private schools also spend their money on frivolous things, but I don't see why that's an issue...)
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    (Original post by eelnais)
    That's you though. Most people go to state schools and rely on the NHS and they still get up and go to work. Not everyone is lazy or lacks incentive just because other people have the same opportunities as them. It is not a choice to send your child to a state school the majority of the time. Parents cannot afford it. That is something very difficult for someone who has been to a private school without a scholarship to understand I think. (And parents who send their kids to private schools also spend their money on frivolous things, but I don't see why that's an issue...)
    Take out a remortgage against you property.....loan.....you can borrow against pretty anything nowadays to pay for things.... get another job....our working time directives are very lax now if you read them since signed up to the EU Working Time Directives.....you can easily work as much as you want... especially your claiming there on low incomes etc to afford a private education. They don't need to worry about the tax brackets effecting them!
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    (Original post by HumanSupremacist)
    But individual have freedom. Hence, individuals or private entities would have the freedom to set up private hospitals an private schools - unless you wish to take away this freedom?
    I don't see why they can't work in a hospital or school already existing. Seeing as poorer people always have their freedom restricted I don't see why you seem to think taking away freedom would be a new thing. It's hardly taking away 'freedom' to say "Please use this just as good hospital that everyone can afford rather than your one." (Assuming this is a world without them).
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    (Original post by SloaneRanger)
    Take out a remortgage against you property.....loan.....you can borrow against pretty anything nowadays to pay for things.... get another job....our working time directives are very lax now if you read them since signed up to the EU Working Time Directives.....you can easily work as much as you want... especially your claiming there on low incomes etc to afford a private education. They don't need to worry about the tax brackets effecting them!
    Meanwhile some rich kid gets born and gets everything without all of this stress and hassle. My point is there shouldn't be all of this, there should just not be private schools that create these problems.
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    (Original post by HumanSupremacist)

    - The "wealth and unfairness" argument is ridiculous - surely, you would also be arguing against private healthcare and private hospitals? Surely you would be arguing against private car services?


    What do you think? Surely arguments against private schools are petty and ridiculous - if you would ban private schools, you would also ban private healthcare and private tutors, no?
    No there's a massive difference between private education and healthcare. Private healthcare doesn't negatively affect those who don't have private healthcare, and it shortens the waiting lists for these people whilst reducing public spend on the nhs.

    Private schools on the other hand unfairly claim a lot of tax relief by having and claiming they are a charity (for the rich/middle class...) status, Private schools also give their pupils an unfair advantage in the competition for grades, oxford/Cambridge entrance and job prospects. Take 2 people, one state educated the other privately educated of equal intelligence. Guess which one will be given a better advantage over Oxford? Now consider the NHS: if one private healthcare patient needs treatment, it doesn't negatively affect the treatment of the NHS patient.
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    (Original post by eelnais)
    Meanwhile some rich kid gets born and gets everything without all of this stress and hassle. My point is there shouldn't be all of this, there should just not be private schools that create these problems.
    Maybe people should start saving young.....there are so many endowment type policies people can take out when they are you so that when they get to a point of having a family. There kids have the best of everything! If there was the potential of sending my kids to a private school, I would be blowing my money on some pretty bad things instead of saving.
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    (Original post by SloaneRanger)
    Maybe people should start saving young.....there are so many endowment type policies people can take out when they are you so that when they get to a point of having a family. There kids have the best of everything! If there was the potential of sending my kids to a private school, I would be blowing my money on some pretty bad things instead of saving.
    What about those who don't have the potential? Their money has to go on house, food, clothes, bills. I agree those that can should start saving, but it seems ridiculous when people blame those who end up in state schools like the parents should have magically sprouted money because they are used to living in the lap of luxury and could never possibly understand what it is like to simply not have any spare cash. (Not saying this is you, for all I know you're a comprehensive kid on benefits, but that seems unlikely).
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    (Original post by eelnais)
    I don't see why they can't work in a hospital or school already existing. Seeing as poorer people always have their freedom restricted I don't see why you seem to think taking away freedom would be a new thing. It's hardly taking away 'freedom' to say "Please use this just as good hospital that everyone can afford rather than your one." (Assuming this is a world without them).
    But what if they don't want to? What if, say, a group of wealthy private citizens wish to start a private fee-paying school in legacy of some historical figure or other - you would restrict their freedom of choice to do so? What kind of society would that be?

    Even less wealthy persons have the opportunity to attend fee-paying schools (e.g. bright students, scholarships) - even so, there is no universal entitlement to private education. However, there is such with state education if you are a member of that society.
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    (Original post by SloaneRanger)
    Take out a remortgage against you property.....loan.....you can borrow against pretty anything nowadays to pay for things.... get another job....our working time directives are very lax now if you read them since signed up to the EU Working Time Directives.....you can easily work as much as you want... especially your claiming there on low incomes etc to afford a private education. They don't need to worry about the tax brackets effecting them!
    Your either trolling or very ignorant. If private schools charge £15,000 per child per year you have 2 children, a mortgage (or rent) on top of bills for food, utilities and other living costs to pay and take into account the average household income with 2 working parents is £40,000 how much overtime would both parents have to work to send their kiddies to private school?
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    (Original post by eelnais)
    What about those who don't have the potential? Their money has to go on house, food, clothes, bills. I agree those that can should start saving, but it seems ridiculous when people blame those who end up in state schools like the parents should have magically sprouted money because they are used to living in the lap of luxury and could never possibly understand what it is like to simply not have any spare cash. (Not saying this is you, for all I know you're a comprehensive kid on benefits, but that seems unlikely).
    Name me one kind of society that doesn't have bums...even communist countries have to deal with people like that. But there more ruthless in dealing with them...yes we all have household essentials. But as I said earlier people work longer hours in other countries, if your short of money or wanted to save for the future put in further hours.....Another job?
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    (Original post by poiuy)
    Your either trolling or very ignorant. If private schools charge £15,000 per child per year you have 2 children, a mortgage (or rent) on top of bills for food, utilities and other living costs to pay and take into account the average household income with 2 working parents is £40,000 how much overtime would both parents have to work to send their kiddies to private school?
    Easy...http://www.sfpschoolfees.co.uk..... tax brackets do you really want to go through them with you.... your effectively going to pay your debt over time....but your house is collateral.... say these parents.... etc...what have they been doing before they had kids...there well within the theshold if there household income is £40,000 so £20,000 each to get another job. How many parents does it take to watch two kids???? The country gives so much back in childcare in return to encourage parents to work as much as possible. Have you seen how our country does child trust funds etc.....people should stop wasting it on senseless stuff and save it for a future. It depends where your priorities lie again. Remortgages/loans....I see people do it all the time to pay for education...self sacrifice....i sell this crap.
 
 
 
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