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    (Original post by meenu89)
    Every place I have worked, people who join the Union say that the Union is next to useless. They regret paying the sub.
    Yeah, they're also the people who never attend branch meetings, never return a ballot and would never stand for shop steward. A union is only as good as its members. That's their strength and weakness. If your shop steward is crap - vote them out and stand yourself.
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    (Original post by Kibalchich)
    Yeah, they're also the people who never attend branch meetings, never return a ballot and would never stand for shop steward. A union is only as good as its members. That's their strength and weakness. If your shop steward is crap - vote them out and stand yourself.
    I personally don't give an anything for Unions; couldn't care less. I was just talking from experience.
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    Can we stay on topic please and give it a rest with the personal attacks? I'd hate to have to give out warnings etc. Thanks :bigsmile:
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    (Original post by Democracy)
    Can we stay on topic please and give it a rest with the personal attacks? I'd hate to have to give out warnings etc. Thanks :bigsmile:
    Calling a scab a scab is not a personal attack. Its a statement of fact.
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    (Original post by Kibalchich)
    Unions are about workers voicing collective interests and protecting pay and conditions. To be against that, you're either a boss/owner, top layer management or a mug.

    Oh and you don't have to contribute to the Labour party.
    That's the ideal. But we have laws to protect worker rights now, Unions can be great and I'll admit I don't have a lot of personal experience with them. However my Dad does, and so did my Grandpa, and my Uncle, and my Mum and quite a few other people who's opinions I respect, and they have very few good things to say about them in general. And my Dad rose through the Unions, and is of the opinion that the 'Union Men' are just as self serving as the ever demonised 'management' in the companies.

    Unions do contribute to Labour generally and I'd have no say in it, so no Union will be taking my money or membership unless I have desperate need of them.
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    (Original post by Kibalchich)
    Calling a scab a scab is not a personal attack. Its a statement of fact.
    I'd agree with you in real life, but this isn't a picket line, it's supposed to be a structured debate, so try and attack the opposition's stance rather than making an ad hom remark. Ta.
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    (Original post by Steevee)
    That's the ideal. But we have laws to protect worker rights now, Unions can be great and I'll admit I don't have a lot of personal experience with them. However my Dad does, and so did my Grandpa, and my Uncle, and my Mum and quite a few other people who's opinions I respect, and they have very few good things to say about them in general. And my Dad rose through the Unions, and is of the opinion that the 'Union Men' are just as self serving as the ever demonised 'management' in the companies.

    Unions do contribute to Labour generally and I'd have no say in it, so no Union will be taking my money or membership unless I have desperate need of them.
    Its true that union bureacrats are generally self serving. Which is why a strong rank and file is so important. Union full timers are usually the ones trying to avoid strikes, its the rank and file who usually push for them.

    If you want a democratic union with no full time bureacrats, then Industrial Workers of the World are the one.
    https://www.iww.org.uk/
    We won the recent John Lewis cleaner's dispute.

    We're an officially recognised trade union with no affiliation to Labour, run by members for members. Also worth joining the union that has the collective bargaining agreement in your workplace. I'm in the IWW and Unison and the RCN.
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    (Original post by LeBuche)
    Negged for having a perfectly reasonable alternative opinion :rolleyes: For all the people on here who preach freedom of speech and tolerance you well err aren't very tolerant.
    You speak as though you've been sent to jail.
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    (Original post by Democracy)
    But, but, but you have the liberty to starve in that case! It was a choice which you made totally freely. A genuine free market is all about teh liberty! :rolleyes:
    This is for you:

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    I'd definitely join one if there was one for the job I do.
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    (Original post by Kibalchich)
    Its true that union bureacrats are generally self serving. Which is why a strong rank and file is so important. Union full timers are usually the ones trying to avoid strikes, its the rank and file who usually push for them.

    If you want a democratic union with no full time bureacrats, then Industrial Workers of the World are the one.
    https://www.iww.org.uk/
    We won the recent John Lewis cleaner's dispute.

    We're an officially recognised trade union with no affiliation to Labour, run by members for members. Also worth joining the union that has the collective bargaining agreement in your workplace. I'm in the IWW and Unison and the RCN.
    I'd rather not be part of a Union with a storied affiliation with Anarcho-Socialist movements, equally I've got no time for Unison or the RCN as they fund and are affiliated with the Labour Party.

    As I said, I have no real interest in being part of a Union. Should I find myself in a hostile work environment then maybe, but unless I feel a real need of them, I'll abstain.
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    (Original post by LeBuche)
    No. They're selfish, impractical and everything they claim to be fighting against. As bad as big business imo.
    That's true for most tube drivers and Bob Crow!
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    Of course.

    Trade Unionism is an effective means of reducing the disparity in power between employer and employee. It also provides the workforce with a means of voicing their concerns, and inhibits the extent at which an employer can exploit their working body.

    An effective relationship between union, employer and government is crucial to a healthy economy. Furthermore, the government can keep the other two 'corners of the pyramid' in check so to speak. If tube drivers decide to strike at a ridiculous time, then the government can step in. If an employer recklessly alters the pensions of its workforce, then the government can also step in.
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    (Original post by L i b)
    I don't really have a problem with organised labour in theory - but the reality of it is that most unions are fronts for far-left politics. They needn't be. Equally young, middle class people are generally quite happy to put in long hours and to work hard in order to progress early in their careers.

    I'm a member of the Law Society of Scotland, which I suppose is vaguely a trade unon in some ways.
    i'd agree with the confusion between organised labour and the left hand side of the labour party, particularly because of the links between the UK Labour Party and the TUC. - especially given the block vote of the TUC when it comes to major things in Labour policy and the way in which the parliamentary party is run i.e. the fact that the popular choice for leader can be blocked by Union block votes.

    putting long hours in is not the issue if it;s voluntary -the isssues arise where workloads and hours are mandated to the point where it damages the health and welfare of staff.
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    (Original post by Steevee)
    I'd rather not be part of a Union with a storied affiliation with Anarcho-Socialist movements, equally I've got no time for Unison or the RCN as they fund and are affiliated with the Labour Party.

    As I said, I have no real interest in being part of a Union. Should I find myself in a hostile work environment then maybe, but unless I feel a real need of them, I'll abstain.
    care to check your sourses there.

    the RCN is not TUC or party affiliated.
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    (Original post by sugarmouse)
    I joined one before going self-employed. To be fair to them they were very helpful-but they couldn't stop me being sacked. However I loved being in one-for the most part they were very helpful.I would recommend joining one .
    Sacked ? or made redundant ?

    also if you were dismissed - what did you do to frustrate your contract.
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    No because I couldn't bring myself to go on strike and affect innocent people.
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    (Original post by Steevee)
    I'd rather not be part of a Union with a storied affiliation with Anarcho-Socialist movements, equally I've got no time for Unison or the RCN as they fund and are affiliated with the Labour Party.

    As I said, I have no real interest in being part of a Union. Should I find myself in a hostile work environment then maybe, but unless I feel a real need of them, I'll abstain.
    As has been explained several times on this thread, you can opt out of paying the political fund.
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    (Original post by zippyRN)
    care to check your sourses there.

    the RCN is not TUC or party affiliated.
    Not officially, but a large number of influential members of the RCN have Labour and Unison affiliations.

    (Original post by Kibalchich)
    As has been explained several times on this thread, you can opt out of paying the political fund.
    But I'd still be supporting the group that give their backing to Labour, and not all unions have such an opt out.
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    (Original post by Democracy)
    I'd agree with you in real life, but this isn't a picket line, it's supposed to be a structured debate, so try and attack the opposition's stance rather than making an ad hom remark. Ta.
    I suggest you revise that post.

    Calling a scab a scab is ok? That's a pretty derogatory term, and regardless of your opinion that post could be worded better, you're supposed to be setting an example.
 
 
 
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