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    (Original post by Birchington)
    Opposing ID cards.
    What BS, ID cards should be required of everyone, especially as you need them to buy age restricted products also immigrants should be forced to have one along with a social security number that you only get if you are an actual immigrant and not an illegal... NI numbers are given out willy nilly and it is disgraceful. In other words, you should not oppose them in regards to immigrants and checking their status, I fully believe in random checks of foreign looking people (myself included) to make sure they are in the UK legally.
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    (Original post by chrisawhitmore)
    I doubt his manifesto represents his actual policies, so I omitted it as a possibility.
    Excuse me and why are you writing my policies off? sure I am not as extreme as the so-called 'Liberals' but who is? I am dreadfully sorry to have been to logical in appealing to the wealthy masses
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    (Original post by tehFrance)
    Excuse me and why are you writing my policies off? sure I am not as extreme as the so-called 'Liberals' but who is? I am dreadfully sorry to have been to logical in appealing to the wealthy masses
    It's just that there seem to be so many of them. And they're all so brightly coloured! I assumed you were just decorating the election thread to make up for those damnably ugly liberal banners.
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    (Original post by chrisawhitmore)
    It's just that there seem to be so many of them. And they're all so brightly coloured! I assumed you were just decorating the election thread to make up for those damnably ugly liberal banners.
    Excuse me for trying to give a voice to the silent wealthy, they need a voice and I am that voice!

    That said, my colours are nicer than the crap the so-called 'Liberals' poop out.
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    (Original post by Birchington)
    Opposing ID cards, getting the police to remove DNA/fingerprints of innocent people, allowing local people to decide if they want CCTV cameras are just a few of our ideas.

    I don't think reducing state surveillance will suddenly lead to an increase in crime - statistics suggest CCTV for example, rarely discourages criminal behaviour. I think reducing re-offending through education. rehabilitation and providing opportunities is key to reducing crime. The police state has failed to reduce crime, but has greatly damaged our civil liberties.
    It helps catch criminals though.
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    (Original post by maskofsanity)
    It helps catch criminals though.
    Are they really that effective though?
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    (Original post by Birchington)
    Are they really that effective though?
    Look, your post was utterly moronic and throwing a random newspaper article into a post is not a response. Here is why your post was so fatally stupid:

    >Let's accept that CCTV does not deter crime.
    >Let's accept that at times CCTV has been invaluable in catching criminals.
    >Conclusion: removing CCTV will not change the level of crime but will decrease the capture and punishment of criminals.
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    And that's still being generous to your post because CCTV does deter some crime, therefore removing it is again detrimental, regardless of how little crime is deterred.
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    I'm talking bouncy castles. Party poppers. Fireworks. Clowns. Cake. Lazer Tag. Pass the parcel. Pin the tail on the donkey. Piñata. Magic Show. Disco. Swimming pool. Water Slide. Party Rings. Jammer Dodgers. Cherryade. Vanilla Coke. Party hats. Musical Chairs. Cha cha slide.

    Now that's a party you wanna be a part of.:party2:
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    (Original post by maskofsanity)
    Look, your post was utterly moronic and throwing a random newspaper article into a post is not a response. Here is why your post was so fatally stupid:

    >Let's accept that CCTV does not deter crime.
    >Let's accept that at times CCTV has been invaluable in catching criminals.
    >Conclusion: removing CCTV will not change the level of crime but will increase the capture and punishment of criminals.
    The real issue is the installation of new CCTV cameras. People should be allowed a greater say on where they are installed, especially in public or shared locations. CCTV is undeniably useful in catching criminals, but it is also damaging to people's right to privacy.

    It looks like we'll disagree, but your argument would be stronger if you used facts rather than "moronic" and "stupid". Resorting to insults is a sign of weakness.
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    (Original post by Birchington)
    People should be allowed a greater say on where they are installed
    No they shouldn't. That is the concern of the state's security. And which way do you think potential criminals would vote - more CCTV or less CCTV?

    (Original post by Birchington)
    CCTV is undeniably useful in catching criminals, but it is also damaging to people's right to privacy.
    How are they damaged? How is anyone harmed by being recorded FOR THEIR SAFETY?

    (Original post by Birchington)
    It looks like we'll disagree, but your argument would be stronger if you used facts rather than "moronic" and "stupid". Resorting to insults is a sign of weakness.
    I used a combination of the two and that's the only way to respond to Liberals; they are clueless children who demand everything under the sun with no thought or reasoning.
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    (Original post by maskofsanity)
    I used a combination of the two and that's the only way to respond to Liberals; they are clueless children who demand everything under the sun with no thought or reasoning.
    You drop to personal insults without being provoked, who's the child now? You take in facts or don't take them in and reply with an educated response, sometimes referring to sources to back up your argument rather than unfounded beliefs.

    While I believe a surveillance state is necessary, it need not infringe on my personal life, so it will have to be very limited in its extend - covering government buildings and protecting private business, that's about it.

    There you go, my honest opinion, non-aggressive or insulting. Now, that wasn't so hard was it?
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    (Original post by MacDaddi)
    You drop to personal insults without being provoked, who's the child now? You take in facts or don't take them in and reply with an educated response, sometimes referring to sources to back up your argument rather than unfounded beliefs.

    While I believe a surveillance state is necessary, it need not infringe on my personal life, so it will have to be very limited in its extend - covering government buildings and protecting private business, that's about it.

    There you go, my honest opinion, non-aggressive or insulting. Now, that wasn't so hard was it?
    I was provoked - his entire post was an insult to me and everyone else; and especially an insult to police officers who rely heavily on CCTV - just take a look at the BTP.

    Does crime only happen around government buildings and private businesses? No, not even close, so that proposal is ridiculous and not to be taken seriously.
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    (Original post by Dr. Django)
    I'm talking bouncy castles. Party poppers. Fireworks. Clowns. Cake. Lazer Tag. Pass the parcel. Pin the tail on the donkey. Piñata. Magic Show. Disco. Swimming pool. Water Slide. Party Rings. Jammer Dodgers. Cherryade. Vanilla Coke. Party hats. Musical Chairs. Cha cha slide.

    Now that's a party you wanna be a part of.:party2:
    So basically, it splits this way: Parties where you bring your own booze: right wing

    Parties where everyone chips in and the hosts buy a keg: left wing.

    Some people get more than others on the right, everybody gets the same crap on the left, and the host usually skims a profit off the top.
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    (Original post by chrisawhitmore)
    So basically, it splits this way: Parties where you bring your own booze: right wing

    Parties where everyone chips in and the hosts buy a keg: left wing.

    Some people get more than others on the right, everybody gets the same crap on the left, and the host usually skims a profit off the top.
    PRSOM!
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    (Original post by chrisawhitmore)
    So basically, it splits this way: Parties where you bring your own booze: right wing

    Parties where everyone chips in and the hosts buy a keg: left wing.

    Some people get more than others on the right, everybody gets the same crap on the left, and the host usually skims a profit off the top.
    Damnit, PRSOM as well :/ that made me laugh
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    (Original post by maskofsanity)
    I was provoked - his entire post was an insult to me and everyone else; and especially an insult to police officers who rely heavily on CCTV - just take a look at the BTP.

    Does crime only happen around government buildings and private businesses? No, not even close, so that proposal is ridiculous and not to be taken seriously.
    A lot of crimes happen in the home, do you suppose we have cameras there too?
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    (Original post by MacDaddi)
    A lot of crimes happen in the home, do you suppose we have cameras there too?
    There are no state CCTV cameras in homes.

    Do not make strawman arguments.
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    (Original post by maskofsanity)
    There are no state CCTV cameras in homes.

    Do not make strawman arguments.
    Obviously, doesn't take genius to work that out.

    No I'm just making a point, what I'm saying is that cameras shouldn't be used in public areas. instead, looking at more private property to protect their private interests. Not that of the greater good, does the innocent bystander give permission for their images to be captured? No.
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    (Original post by MacDaddi)
    Obviously, doesn't take genius to work that out.

    No I'm just making a point, what I'm saying is that cameras shouldn't be used in public areas. instead, looking at more private property to protect their private interests. Not that of the greater good, does the innocent bystander give permission for their images to be captured? No.
    Clearly, as you worked it out.

    How was that your point? You asked an irrelevant question about CCTV in private property in order to try and refute my response (which you failed) and now you are returning to arguing against CCTV cameras in public areas. Make up your mind.

    It doesn't matter if a bystander has their image captured - what harm is that to anyone? Are you that camera shy that you are concerned of an image beng taken of you? What is more important - your camera shyness or the safety of the public? Would you rather be beaten and mugged on CCTV so that the criminal is caught or beaten and mugged with no repercussions? Do you actually think the state's security cares about - or even looks at - innocent bystanders? Funnily enough their eyes are on the suspect.
 
 
 
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