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Why don't left-wing radicals start a revolution in Britain? Watch

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    (Original post by Barksy)
    Nazism is closer to socialism than free market capitalism you idiot. Are you even aware of how bad a state Labour left the country in the 70s? That is what the far left does. Thank god they have moved to a more sane position.
    How is a far right political system equable to socialism, why do you think the Nazis murdered and enslaved the socialists in Germany, and then the rest of Europe? It was succesive governments both Labour and Conservative that caused the problems of Britain in the 1970's, simply because they could not control the Unions, I have never been a lover of trade unions, they had their time in the 20's and 30's but were allowed to run riot, by constant conservative governments. I am a true socialist, not a political socialist, as I am a true democrat not a political democrat. I don't believe in Goverment by pressure groups, but cooperation by all, and I believe that the care of society is more important than filling the tax havens with the profits garnered by the few at the expense of the majority.
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    (Original post by nimrodstower)
    How is a far right political system equable to socialism, why do you think the Nazis murdered and enslaved the socialists in Germany, and then the rest of Europe? It was succesive governments both Labour and Conservative that caused the problems of Britain in the 1970's, simply because they could not control the Unions, I have never been a lover of trade unions, they had their time in the 20's and 30's but were allowed to run riot, by constant conservative governments. I am a true socialist, not a political socialist, as I am a true democrat not a political democrat. I don't believe in Goverment by pressure groups, but cooperation by all, and I believe that the care of society is more important than filling the tax havens with the profits garnered by the few at the expense of the majority.
    Nazism was an epitome of big government. So was socialism.

    The (economic) far right want a small as possible government. Not a 'dear leader'.

    As for your last little bit, are you against profit? If so, provide me with one rational explanation, not just left wing rhetoric.
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    (Original post by nimrodstower)
    (Enter from the right) If you think the main political parties are too left wing, I am afraid only nazism would suit you.
    Not quite Nazism, but Fascist Nationalism is where I wander.

    I stopped voting New Labour after Blairs first term, he was more right wing than a lot of the Tory left. Only a return to real socialist politics would suffice, to make me vote for Labour again. To see how far right politics has moved, you only have to consider UKIP.
    UKIP are still pretty left leaning in the grand scheme of things.
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    You are very constrained in your thinking, aren't you? It is either black or white. The Nazis were right wing, nationalistic, and cared little for their society. The Right wing in Britain are Nationalistic and care little for their society. Free market capitalism is no God for econimics, I actually believe that their is a place for free market capitalism if it is for the benefit of the whole of society, but when it becomes tainted by the greed of, shall we call them the 10%ers, against the interests of the 90%ers, it is wrong. The sharp practices of the deregulated banking systems of the world is the reason for the present economic collapse, not because of the right wing Labour government. As the unions were reined in by Thatcher, so we should using big goverment to rein in the practices of the all for me mentality of the far right.

    No I am not against profit, in fact I ran my own small business in the 70's. I hope though that I was always working for the good of society, and I would never hide my profits in offshore tax havens to avoid my social responsibilities.

    NOTE: THIS IS A REPLY TO BARKSY, SOMETHING WENT WRONG WITH THE QUICK QUOTE OPTION.
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    (Original post by Three Mile Sprint)
    Not quite Nazism, but Fascist Nationalism is where I wander.



    UKIP are still pretty left leaning in the grand scheme of things.
    Why are you affiliated to TSR Socialist group, are you a cuckoo in the nest, or a viper at the bosom?
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    (Original post by nimrodstower)
    Why are you affiliated to TSR Socialist group, are you a cuckoo in the nest, or a viper at the bosom?
    I think it's a remenent from former affiliation, at one time I was an avid Socialist, alas no more.

    I simply forgot to leave the group as my views changed.
    Thank you for highlihghting the issue though!
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    (Original post by Three Mile Sprint)
    I think it's a remenent from former affiliation, at one time I was an avid Socialist, alas no more.

    I simply forgot to leave the group as my views changed.
    Thank you for highlihghting the issue though!
    Think nothing of it, (he says smugly), for we socialists are a caring bunch.
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    (Original post by nimrodstower)
    Think nothing of it, (he says smugly), for we socialists are a caring bunch.
    ....I don't know who you are.

    But I like you.
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    The traditional means of left wing political expression in this country (eg trade unions, public demonstration) have been stamped on by successive governments and the result is a docile and apathetic political culture.
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    I'd say the reason why there's no popular revolution is that, while there is much to disagree with about the current system, it's no where near bad enough for an uprising to be justified.
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    Left-wing people are typically scared of "doing" anything at all...
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    (Original post by nimrodstower)
    You are very constrained in your thinking, aren't you? It is either black or white. The Nazis were right wing, nationalistic, and cared little for their society. The Right wing in Britain are Nationalistic and care little for their society. Free market capitalism is no God for econimics, I actually believe that their is a place for free market capitalism if it is for the benefit of the whole of society, but when it becomes tainted by the greed of, shall we call them the 10%ers, against the interests of the 90%ers, it is wrong. The sharp practices of the deregulated banking systems of the world is the reason for the present economic collapse, not because of the right wing Labour government. As the unions were reined in by Thatcher, so we should using big goverment to rein in the practices of the all for me mentality of the far right.

    No I am not against profit, in fact I ran my own small business in the 70's. I hope though that I was always working for the good of society, and I would never hide my profits in offshore tax havens to avoid my social responsibilities.

    NOTE: THIS IS A REPLY TO BARKSY, SOMETHING WENT WRONG WITH THE QUICK QUOTE OPTION.
    Only an idiot would associate libertarianism with fascism. They are pretty much opposites. How do I care little about society? I don't want this country to sink into the same left wing degeneracy which delivered nothing but misery to the likes of Cuba, USSR and North Korea, and us in the 70s. That is caring for society; wanting an oppressive ideology is not.

    Of course capitalism is beneficial to society. Just look at all the innovation and amazing products. They weren't provided by humanitarians. They were provided by profit seeking companies and individuals. Competition keeps prices down which is good for the consumer. How is this form of greed less moral than your form of greed, which is to steal from people based on some arbitrary notion of what you deem to be fair?
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    (Original post by nimrodstower)

    The sharp practices of the deregulated banking systems of the world is the reason for the present economic collapse, not because of the right wing Labour government.

    I would never hide my profits in offshore tax havens to avoid my social responsibilities.

    NOTE: THIS IS A REPLY TO BARKSY, SOMETHING WENT WRONG WITH THE QUICK QUOTE OPTION.
    First of all, ask yourself what started the plague in the financial system in the first place. Easy money policies from the Fed and government inflated the housing bubble, Fanny Mae and Freddie Mac also among the culprits. Low interest rates and rising house prices led to the frantic dealings on Wall Street. When this bubble burst, banks were in trouble. But the government's involvement doesn't stop there. If we had capitalism, the banks would fail. But because government again intervened when they decided to insure deposits, we were forced to bail them out. That creates moral hazard and the same mistakes are being made. No business should ever be too big to fail. Labour, while not being responsible for the start of the recession, definitely foot the blame when it comes to our public finances; when you are in the good times you cut back spending to save for the bad times. But no, Labour squandered our money on pointless political gestures to buy votes and racked up the debt.

    Secondly, what exactly are your 'social responsibilities'? You may have some vague notion of what that may be, but don't force others who worked all their life to conform to your view and waste their money on an incompetent government.
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    The left has little consensus about what it wants after capitalism. I'd classify myself as a "left-wing radical" but I wouldn't want to be part of any revolution that hopes to replace capitalism with a centrally planned socialist economy. Similarly, I doubt many leftists would like to create the sort of economy I tend to advocate.
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    what purpose would this be for, it's be pointless??? We still need the nhs, public services, money to fund all this, why would this anarchy help our current situation?

    It would make things worse than they are? You'd turn britain into a 3rd world country!
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    (Original post by Jordan-James)
    Because revolutions are generally started and driven by a peasantry. Private schooled lefties cant do eff all.
    See Marx and Lenin both from the wealthy middle class.
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    (Original post by Barksy)
    Labour, while not being responsible for the start of the recession, definitely foot the blame when it comes to our public finances; when you are in the good times you cut back spending to save for the bad times. .
    So while we were in the time of plenty we should have let our hospitals fall to ruin and our poor starve???

    The Iraq war was certainly a large expense that was completely pointless, not that we'll ever know how much that cost.
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    (Original post by Three Mile Sprint)
    I think it's a remenent from former affiliation, at one time I was an avid Socialist, alas no more.

    I simply forgot to leave the group as my views changed.
    Thank you for highlihghting the issue though!
    Ha converts are always the most zealous, please share with us your veiw of a better governed (national socialist???) Britain.
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    What is the outcome of a left wing revolution? It is either internationalist or nationalist socialism. Would you want either option?
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    The truth of the matter is that well meaning people should be Liberals but this is not as sociable or exciting as being in a party that says "..come the revolution!".... Liberals founded the welfare state, universal suffrage, the NHS, old age pensions etc. in the first half of the twentieth century. The media are largely to blame for people being socialist rather than Liberal in the first half of the twenty first century, it is just so unexciting to take each issue as it comes and try to find a moral, fair and tolerant solution, much better to cover issues as a battle between gangs. The BBC, by being "impartial" always covers issues as battles between extremes and so polarises society.
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    (Original post by sammynorton90)
    I mean an actual, well-organised, planned out, revolution.
    If you look at historical planned revolutions, they normally take place against a backdrop of chaos and or power vacuum.

    More importantly, they are often incredibly counter-productive. Socialism, a society based on workers' self-management and self-organisation, must be achieved through processes of self-management and self-organisation.
 
 
 
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