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    (Original post by Krack)
    Nazism, Churchill helped defeat Nazism. Fascism was still very much alive after the war and it is still alive today.
    That doesn't mean it wasn't defeated. The Conservatives were defeated at the 1997 election, and I'm afraid way too many of them are still very much alive.
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    (Original post by CLS94)
    That doesn't mean it wasn't defeated. The Conservatives were defeated at the 1997 election, and I'm afraid way too many of them are still very much alive.
    I would like to point out that what we fought in world war two was Nazism an offshoot of Fascism which wasn't defeated in Italy (it still existed while banned) or Spain during the war whereas Nazism was well and truly defeated. This really neither here nor there but I had to point it out.
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    (Original post by nixonsjellybeans)
    I agree nobody does- In an ideal world we can all have state funerals and remember each other proudly but it can't happen.
    You clearly don't understand what i'm getting at. I don't like state funded funerals but if we must have one by popular demand then at least make it somebody who is worth it to a solid majority e.g. Churchill.
    I'll leave it here as this is going nowhere...
    The point is we don't need to have one hence have one for nobody. Why have you got this idea that we MUST have a state funeral?
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    (Original post by Krack)
    I would like to point out that what we fought in world war two was Nazism an offshoot of Fascism which wasn't defeated in Italy (it still existed while banned) or Spain during the war whereas Nazism was well and truly defeated. This really neither here nor there but I had to point it out.
    Things can continue to exist after being defeated! In World War II, fasicists were defeated - they lost. Just like Barcelona were defeated by Real Madrid, and yet still exist. I think you have a very very odd definition of the word defeated to be picking me up on it :P
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    (Original post by rsplaya)
    The point is we don't need to have one hence have one for nobody. Why have you got this idea that we MUST have a state funeral?
    I don't think we do :confused: I just explained that I don't think we need them just as you don't
    Unfortunately not everybody agrees so its kinda a compromise in my eyes that if people want them then at least let them be worthy of it.

    Could be an interesting bill to come out of the hatred for state funerals :lol:
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    (Original post by nixonsjellybeans)
    I don't think we do :confused: I just explained that I don't think we need them just as you don't
    Unfortunately not everybody agrees so its kinda a compromise in my eyes that if people want them then at least let them be worthy of it.

    Could be an interesting bill to come out of the hatred for state funerals :lol:
    Why are you compromising before even hearing all sides of the argument you are worse than Obama. I don't think I've ever heard of anybody viciously defending the right to state funerals you sound very confused.
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    (Original post by rsplaya)
    Why are you compromising before even hearing all sides of the argument you are worse than Obama. I don't think I've ever heard of anybody viciously defending the right to state funerals you sound very confused.
    Your trolling right? :confused: I can't even grasp what you just said you have to be.
    I know the sides of the argument, wasn't defending state funerals viciously and compromise is how things work around here my friend.
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    I smell internetguru. :bored:
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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    I reject the entire spirit of this motion focusing not on the positives of her tenure but solely on the negatives, a very negative attitude indeed. I also believe that as a Prime Minister who provoked a seismic shift in British politics that she is entirely deserving of this funeral (to which the Thatcher family are contributing).

    PRSOM

    A poor attempt to get a cheap shot in at Thatcher.
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    (Original post by nixonsjellybeans)
    Your trolling right? :confused: I can't even grasp what you just said you have to be.
    I know the sides of the argument, wasn't defending state funerals viciously and compromise is how things work around here my friend.
    If you followed US politics you would understand. What happens is the Republicans generally push for cuts and keeping taxes lower and the Democrats generally push for higher taxes and less cuts. Well since Obama has been made president liberals have attacked him for giving up too much to the Republicans. This is because rather than putting left proposals forward he preempts it with a compromised bill that already cuts areas like social security and medicare. Then he brags about how good he is at compromising. The the Republicans use this to try make the Democrats go even further right and more often than not it works. Obama is however good at media spin so will flat out blame those uncompromising Republicans for blocking everything. Why would they compromise when they know Obama and the Democrats will cave in every single time?

    So I compare you to Obama when you preemptively compromise because it is a weak arse tactic that ultimately gives your opponents more ground. Of course Obama isn't stupid he will pretend he has to compromise but in reality he was pushing for medicare and social security cuts before he was even elected. If you want to compromise successfully then you have the debate, have discussions between both sides and agree on a compromise before the bill hits the floor.
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    Its also a Nay from me as well.
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    (Original post by JPKC)
    I smell internetguru. :bored:
    I'm getting a whiff of something, not sure what it is.
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    (Original post by CLS94)
    Oh I do agree, I'm an Irish Socialist and have many, many criticisms of Churchill, but it's beside the point. Churchill, despite his faults (let us remember we all have them) brought the nation together. He gave Britain a national spirit and a unity that was crucial to the war effort. And that achievement in itself eclipses anything Thatcher did regardless of your politics: he helped defeat fascism, and keep Britain's sovereignty. Thatcher was different. Even if you loved her policies, and thought them for the best, you would have to admit they were polarising. Unlike Churchill, there are huge, huge numbers of people who didn't buy into the spirit she set out, people who absolutely loathe her. A state funeral is for national reminiscence: not just for those in the Tory party.
    He was a wartime PM, it's a lot easier to unite everyone behind you when you're fighting someone like the Nazis.

    And arguably Thatcher's action regarding the national industries and Unions was just as important to the survival of the UK as the UK is accustomed to surviving.
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    No. I support the letter, but object wholly to the reasoning and so will not support this motion.
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    This motion really could have been shortened to '£10 million is an unjustified sum for an old woman's funeral at the taxpayers expense'- whether you (the Socialist Party) liked her politics or not is irrelevant.
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    Abstain - Bottom line, Thatcher did good and bad. £10m is too much when the family could have easily paid for the funeral. State funeral has already happened. Yeah that's it really.
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    (Original post by JPKC)
    I smell internetguru. :bored:
    I too smell something rotting from rsplayas direction but think it's tehFrance.
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    (Original post by The Mad Dog)
    I too smell something rotting from rsplayas direction but think it's tehFrance.
    He's not tehFrance, there's a sniff of IG but whilst i thought another member was tehFrance i'm not so sure now.
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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    He's not tehFrance, there's a sniff of IG but whilst i thought another member was tehFrance i'm not so sure now.
    Who is IG? :holmes:

    tehFrance must have done a real number on all of you if you are all looking out for him
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    (Original post by Krack)
    Who is IG? :holmes:

    tehFrance must have done a real number on all of you if you are all looking out for him
    Internetguru, got himself banned but keeps coming back.

    Very entertaining fellow.
 
 
 
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