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    (Original post by Aj12)
    Because the job of the American government is to protect American citizens and they would rather 10 civilians died in a drone strike that kills a leader of a cell plotting to murder 100 Americans than allow a terrorist attack against the US.

    The aim of 9/11 was purely to murder as many civilians in one go as possible to make a statement against US support of Israel and US troops in Saudi Arabia. It's pretty clear from the motives and methods. Civilian jet lines into a civilian building filled with civilians.
    Lets have a realistic analogy here, 50 civilians dead for 1 terrorist. The use of drone attacks is unnecessary, the are tons of other methods to eliminate these individuals with much less loss of civilian life.

    No, the aim of 9/11 was to make a statement against US support of Israel and US troops in Saudi Arabia, the means of doing it was to kill civilians. About methods, dropping bombs in populated areas full of civilians, what would you call that?

    The numbers speak for themselves, 2,996 civilians died during the 9/11. A hardly comparable figure to the 110,937-121,227 civilian deaths in Iraq alone since 2003.
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    (Original post by College_Dropout)
    Lets have a realistic analogy here, 50 civilians dead for 1 terrorist. The use of drone attacks is unnecessary, the are tons of other methods to eliminate these individuals with much less loss of civilian life.

    No, the aim of 9/11 was to make a statement against US support of Israel and US troops in Saudi Arabia, the means of doing it was to kill civilians. About methods, dropping bombs in populated areas full of civilians, what would you call that?

    The numbers speak for themselves, 2,996 civilians died during the 9/11. A hardly comparable figure to the 110,937-121,227 civilian deaths in Iraq alone since 2003.
    Personally I'm ambivalent about drone strikes, what other methods do you think they could use that would be as effective?

    The murder of civilians on a scale that big makes a statement all of its own, they were deliberately targeted thats the crux of the issue here. There is a clear difference in deliberately targeting civilians as 9/11 did and having civilians die as the result of an attack on the leader of a terrorist groups. Depends why they were dropping the bombs, were there a legitimate target in that civilian area and all possible methods were taken to minimize civilian casualties I don't seen an issue with it. Were the aim to merely murder civilians to create fear it'd be terrorism.

    Yes the numbers speak for themselves, most of those casualties were caused by terrorist attacks many of which were not aimed against the American occupation forces.
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    (Original post by Steevee)
    As some-one that knows a lot of servicemen and women, the kind of **** peddled by some people here gets under my skin.
    Right, but negging me is the appropriate response?
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    (Original post by Steevee)
    Nah, I'd say leaving bombs around that maim anyone that happens across them and blowing up crowded market places is worse.
    Bombs can be discovered. Drones strike silently without warning.
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    (Original post by slickrick666999)
    the Muslim brotherhood has been active since the 20's.
    Except the American government has hardly been anti-Muslim Brotherhood. While Nasser was trying to destroy religious extremism in Egypt, the US had a very anti-Egypt policy. When the US and Egypt became allies under Sadat, those policies were revoked and extremism was allowed again.
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    (Original post by IdeasForLife)
    They die, so its ok because its a "reality of war", when some guy (assuming a Muslim did the boston thing) retaliates in kind, its suddenly not ok.I mean they are both equally wrong and unjustifiable but strange how one seems more ok to you then the other.
    but you cant intelligently claim islamic terrorism is 'retaliation' for anything, it is america that has been retaliating to islamist attacks for ten years, this is the reason they are dropping bombs in moslem countires. if moslems were peaceful, there wouldnt be any bomb dropping, simple. But we know that they are not.
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    (Original post by danny111)
    Right, but negging me is the appropriate response?
    I didn't, but it's cute that you care so much :mmm:

    (Original post by danny111)
    Bombs can be discovered. Drones strike silently without warning.
    You have a naive view of warfare. I'd use a drone strike everytime if it meant less of my servicemen being killed.
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    (Original post by danny111)
    Bombs can be discovered. Drones strike silently without warning.
    So bombs that are directly aimed at causing civilian casualties are, in fact, good?

    You think they're designed to be discovered? What you're really saying is "America deserved this and Muslim lives are more valuable than Western ones"
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    It seems like terrorist attack are only condonable when they happen in the west as this is when the media speaks about it. Did you know that when the Boston bombing occurred 75 people were killed in Iraq by car bombs? When people in the third world die all is muted in the media but when Americans die it's another story. Did you also know that 6% of the terrorist attacks on US soils are done by Muslims? Yet it seems like we are the ones who do all the terrorism. People who died in Iraq may make more than million. For every American lost a figure of 100 Muslims died during those last three decades. The Muslims who are killed are direct or indirect consequences of official government policies whereas the Americans who are killed by Muslims are victims of non state terrorist groups. The more the war on terror goes on the more moderate Muslims voices who wish for cooperation are silenced. Was the Iraq war even justified? Means to get to a country's oil as no weapons of mass destruction were found if you ask mean. The sanction on Iraq killed 100,000 to 500,000 children and what did Madeline Albright say ''it's worth it''. If we go back to the past each time a country who has oil (or any thing of interest) is against the US they are said to be the enemies. The coups d'état in 1953 in Iran, the 1954 Guatemalan coups d'état etc. The US was messing around infringing the democracies that third world countries elected. Is it normal to want to control nations? 50,000 tons of explosives where dropped on innocent civilians in Afghanistan. Al Qaida in Syria is a friend while in Afghanistan it's an enemy. The media are silent when it comes to Bahrain's revolution where 60% of the Shia population are discriminated by the government. Each day in Bahrain people die for freedom. Yet, the U.S are with Al-Khalifa. And lets not start to talk about Israel who are occupying the west bank and Gaza yet they are supported by the US. Let's do a little history: 65% of non Jewish population were given 43% of the land while 35% of the Jewish were given 56%. Now look at Obama's claim that ''Israel has every right to defend itself'' while Israel played a decisive role in the military escalation. My cousins are Palestinians and lived in Gaza. They saw first hand the horror in there. Last thing to say for people who pretend that Islam is a religion of violence: mercy, compassion and love are mentioned in the Quran over 350 times, while Jihad which in its true sense means to clean one's spirit is mentioned less than 50 times. In the end, I believe that staging coups d'états, killing tons of civilians, entering war without any proofs of weapon of mass destruction, supporting despotic regimes, Guantanamo etc. are just a few examples of inhuman acts. The value of an African, Asian or Middle-Eastern is worth as much as the life of an American. We deserve democracy, we deserve peace, we deserve that the killing stops and we deserve to walk on free land. When the subventions of cottons in the US or the military budget is more than the help for the LDS you know something is wrong.
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    (Original post by Mr Advice)
    Of course the victims of the attacks on America don't deserve it - what wrong did they do? Nothing. Likewise the hundreds of thousands of innocent people the Americans have killed in their 'quest' don't deserve it.

    Ultimately America must stop their barbaric acts across the world for there to ever be peace. They are responsible for the calamity the world is in today.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Just to pick one example: So you think the world would have been more peaceful if America had never invaded Iraq and removed Saddam Hussein from power?
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    (Original post by Steevee)
    I didn't, but it's cute that you care so much :mmm:



    You have a naive view of warfare. I'd use a drone strike everytime if it meant less of my servicemen being killed.
    If I'd care that much I would have negged you back... :mmm:

    And so would I, but I'm a coward.
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    (Original post by AlexandrTheGreat)
    So bombs that are directly aimed at causing civilian casualties are, in fact, good?

    You think they're designed to be discovered? What you're really saying is "America deserved this and Muslim lives are more valuable than Western ones"
    Yea, no.

    Take the New York bombing attempt. Bomb was found. There is a chance to stop it. Drones, nothing can be done. And that creates terror. They can strike anywhere at any time and you have maybe seconds before you realize what is going on. Creates fear.
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    (Original post by danny111)
    Yea, no.

    Take the New York bombing attempt. Bomb was found. There is a chance to stop it. Drones, nothing can be done. And that creates terror. They can strike anywhere at any time and you have maybe seconds before you realize what is going on. Creates fear.
    I'm sorry, but the claim that an IED targeting civilians can be discovered and is therefore morally superior is a nonsensical distinction that only exists in your own fevered imagination.
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    (Original post by paperskin)
    It seems like terrorist attack are only condonable when they happen in the west as this is when the media speaks about it. Did you know that when the Boston bombing occurred 75 people were killed in Iraq by car bombs? When people in the third world die all is muted in the media but when Americans die it's another story. Did you also know that 6% of the terrorist attacks on US soils are done by Muslims? Yet it seems like we are the ones who do all the terrorism. People who died in Iraq may make more than million. For every American lost a figure of 100 Muslims died during those last three decades. The Muslims who are killed are direct or indirect consequences of official government policies whereas the Americans who are killed by Muslims are victims of non state terrorist groups. The more the war on terror goes on the more moderate Muslims voices who wish for cooperation are silenced. Was the Iraq war even justified? Means to get to a country's oil as no weapons of mass destruction were found if you ask mean. The sanction on Iraq killed 100,000 to 500,000 children and what did Madeline Albright say ''it's worth it''. If we go back to the past each time a country who has oil (or any thing of interest) is against the US they are said to be the enemies. The coups d'état in 1953 in Iran, the 1954 Guatemalan coups d'état etc. The US was messing around infringing the democracies that third world countries elected. Is it normal to want to control nations? 50,000 tons of explosives where dropped on innocent civilians in Afghanistan. Al Qaida in Syria is a friend while in Afghanistan it's an enemy. The media are silent when it comes to Bahrain's revolution where 60% of the Shia population are discriminated by the government. Each day in Bahrain people die for freedom. Yet, the U.S are with Al-Khalifa. And lets not start to talk about Israel who are occupying the west bank and Gaza yet they are supported by the US. Let's do a little history: 65% of non Jewish population were given 43% of the land while 35% of the Jewish were given 56%. Now look at Obama's claim that ''Israel has every right to defend itself'' while Israel played a decisive role in the military escalation. My cousins are Palestinians and lived in Gaza. They saw first hand the horror in there. Last thing to say for people who pretend that Islam is a religion of violence: mercy, compassion and love are mentioned in the Quran over 350 times, while Jihad which in its true sense means to clean one's spirit is mentioned less than 50 times. In the end, I believe that staging coups d'états, killing tons of civilians, entering war without any proofs of weapon of mass destruction, supporting despotic regimes, Guantanamo etc. are just a few examples of inhuman acts. The value of an African, Asian or Middle-Eastern is worth as much as the life of an American. We deserve democracy, we deserve peace, we deserve that the killing stops and we deserve to walk on free land. When the subventions of cottons in the US or the military budget is more than the help for the LDS you know something is wrong.
    Yes quite a few people were aware of the bombings in Iraq in fact there is a whole thread debating the media coverage of it. That thread explains why people will be more interested in a bombing in the States than one in Iraq.

    Because terrorist attacks carried out by Muslims in the past decade have had far higher body counts. It does not help that Extremist Muslims are on a regular basis threatening to attack the West.

    The death toll is far less than one million in Iraq, oddly enough most of those who have been killed since the American invasion were killed by extremist Muslims who were often trying to attack other muslims rather than US forces. They did not find WMD's so it must have been for oil, yes that makes perfectly logical sense.

    al Qaeda in Syria is not a friend, those fighting in Syria are not one opposition, they are incredibly fragmented and made up of tens of different groups with different aims and affiliations. The US will want to back a group that it believes will not be extremist.

    There was a ton of coverage over the protests in Bahrain.

    The life of an American will always be worth more to the American government than one of any other nation, they same can be said for every country in existence. That's how the world works and likely always will. Nations are mostly out for themselves.
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    (Original post by AlexandrTheGreat)
    I'm sorry, but the claim that an IED targeting civilians can be discovered and is therefore morally superior is a nonsensical distinction that only exists in your own fevered imagination.
    IED. Lulz. So a "bomb" made by a company is morally justifiable but as soon as something that explodes is not made by a company it's the evil IED.
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    (Original post by danny111)
    Yea, no.

    Take the New York bombing attempt. Bomb was found. There is a chance to stop it. Drones, nothing can be done. And that creates terror. They can strike anywhere at any time and you have maybe seconds before you realize what is going on. Creates fear.
    times square bomb was only 'found' becuase it was badly wired and began smoking, otherwise it would hvae before it belw up, ususlaly you wouldnt know about a bomb till it blew your leg off. it seems a rather iditoc argument to suggest a device menat to kill or maim you is better becuse there is a tiny chance to find it - if islamists wanted you to know it was there they would call it in like the ira used to.

    a drone, even if not perfect, can hit much more accurately a target militant, rather than a indiscriminate bomb
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    (Original post by Mr Advice)
    Surely this is the truth. Can anyone justifiably say that what America is doung across the world is not terrorism?

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Obama recently said that if at any time innocent people are killed by bombs its an act of terror, he is also the guy who killed thousands of innocents in Yemen, Afghanistan, Pakistan and Somalia so yh it is the truth. Even if it is a war against the "islamists" like the taliban it doesnt justify the innocents killed in between. Also some grous like the taliban were trained by America so its also a matter of, once we are done with u, u will become known as a terrorist.
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    (Original post by danny111)
    IED. Lulz. So a "bomb" made by a company is morally justifiable but as soon as something that explodes is not made by a company it's the evil IED.
    It was not I, but you, who are ascribing superior morality to one form of bomb over another.
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    (Original post by malikabdullah96)
    Obama recently said that if at any time innocent people are killed by bombs its an act of terror, he is also the guy who killed thousands of innocents in Yemen, Afghanistan, Pakistan and Somalia so yh it is the truth. Even if it is a war against the "islamists" like the taliban it doesnt justify the innocents killed in between. Also some grous like the taliban were trained by America so its also a matter of, once we are done with u, u will become known as a terrorist.
    The Taliban were not trained by the US. The current Taliban are not linked to the MUjhadeen they are two different groups.
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    (Original post by AlexandrTheGreat)
    It was not I, but you, who are ascribing superior morality to one form of bomb over another.
    You're the one bringing up "IEDs".
 
 
 
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