Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free
    Offline

    9
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by TheStudent.)
    Ooh I love your interpretation I can definitely relate to that. Just for AO3 though, I think it seems likely to the reader that Gatsby will fail in his endeavour to get Daisy. That's achieved by Fitzgerald choosing to dilute his narrative through the eyes of what is arguably an unreliable narrator, Nick. I think the text would read differently if it didn't have such an opinionated narrator, and it is because of that, that we gain a good understanding of other characters - specifically Daisys complicated relationship with Tom which proves central to the foreshadowing of Gatsbys failure/demise. I reckon Gatsby genuinely believed that he would be able to have Daisy as his wife once he attained the american dream; reduced to its bare minimum, wealth.
    But he had already attained the universal american dream of wealth no? or was this before he was rich we're talking about?
    Offline

    9
    ReputationRep:
    What texts did you guys do for coursework btw?
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    any help for broken glass or duffy/pugh?
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Zarah01)
    He was able to attain the universal american dream which was wealth, Daisy is representative of Gatsby personal american dream, and sorry but i believe that it only become unattainable to him after chapter 5, to the reader perhaps, but gatsby only realises the futility and worthlessness of his dream as he is dying.Love gatsby
    Haha I view his death as rather angelic than filled with futile afterthoughts! More angelic than the portrayal of Myrtle's death anyway..

    And I do think that it sets in to Gatsby in Chapter 5 that the reality of Daisy isn't what he expected somewhat, as after Fitzgerald talks of the great distance that once separated Gatsby and Daisy, when they're together, Gatsby's "count of enchanted objects had diminished by one." So I dunno haha, I think Gatsby does begin to have a realisation in Chapter 5 that his dream maybe wasn't all he thought it to be, Daisy was just another "enchanted object" that he wanted to achieve; just like his wealth, social status, etc..
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Zarah01)
    What texts did you guys do for coursework btw?

    I did 'Waiting for Godot' and 'Twelfth Night' wooo
    Offline

    9
    ReputationRep:
    I think im quite cold, but yes i do see the angelic quality of it, but i feel its overruled by sadness that only at deaths door did he understand that his dream was based on an illusion. So do you not believe that Gatsby loved Daisy? the other stuff i agree on
    • PS Helper
    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    PS Helper
    (Original post by cjwalker)
    Was he able to attain the American Dream though? Essentially Daisy is symbolically representative of Gatsby's American Dream, and in Chapter 5 onwards it becomes pretty unattainable because of the fact that Gatsby realises that the reality of Daisy isn't as good as the strive and journey towards her.. soz geek moment hahaha
    I mean there are lots of criticisms surrounding the American Dream. Is it the pursuit of happiness or the pursuit of prosperity? I think that I've always defined the american dream as being the latter, where a typically average person (Gatsby) is able to break free from the the limitations of his class / background, and to better himself on a financial level. The film, 'The pursuit of happyness' starring Will Smith revolves around the same idea, except it brings race into the picture where even a black man can attain the American dream.

    Found this for you guys for A03:
    The idealistic vision of the American dream often disregards*discrimination*based on a person's race, religion, gender and national origin, which might inhibit his or her ability to achieve specific goals. Critics also point out that many versions of the dream equate prosperity with happiness, and that happiness is possible without wealth or even in poverty. To some people, the American dream might be more about personal fulfillment than about economic success or owning property.

    Is the text in bold what you're alluding to? Because of my interpretation of the american dream, I've always seen Gatsbys attainment of the american dream as separate from his dream of Daisy.

    In the exam, do make sure that you define what you personally believe the american dream to be, fundamentally, about so that the examiner doesn't get confused. It does make for an interesting argument hopefully you guys get a nice question for section A) b.

    I hope this is helping you with your revision anyway!
    Offline

    9
    ReputationRep:
    I did much ado about nothinng (which i loove) and the importance of being earnest, twelfth night is good, our teacher made us watch shes the man so we could understand it (we were in year 8 then) lol
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Zarah01)
    I think im quite cold, but yes i do see the angelic quality of it, but i feel its overruled by sadness that only at deaths door did he understand that his dream was based on an illusion. So do you not believe that Gatsby loved Daisy? the other stuff i agree on
    Nah of course I believe that Gatsby loved Daisy! The novel's one of the greatest love stories of all time hahah I think, but also one of the most tragic. It's definately evident in that quote though about his "enchanted objects" diminishing by one; in that the reality of Daisy isn't what Gatsby had dreamed of and strived towards, it's quite tragic for Gatsby himself and obviously for the slight hints of objectification of women in the novel. That's just the battle between reality and disillusion that runs through the whole story But then again- you could argue that this is just an unreliable opinion given through Nick's sense of memory...AO2 AO2 AO22222 hahaha

    But yeh his death is definately ruled with sadness, moreso felt by the reader though, I think the reader feels sad that this whole time they've tracked the rise and fall of his American Dream and then he passes away, you'd have to be pretty cold not to find that sad
    • PS Helper
    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    PS Helper
    (Original post by Zarah01)
    But he had already attained the universal american dream of wealth no? or was this before he was rich we're talking about?
    Before, when he had to resort to criminal activity / bootlegging.

    “…he stretched out his arms toward the dark water in a curious way, and, far as I was from him, I could have sworn he was trembling. Involuntarily I glanced seaward – and distinguished nothing except a single green light, minute and far away…”

    He must have known how unattainable his dream was once he became wealthy, and the green light somewhat symbolises this. His hands are "trembling", due to his fear of failure perhaps? Amd the light is "minute and far away", implying that his dream is out of reach.

    It could be argued that he continues to dream because he doesn't want to accept the reality of his situation since he's come so far and has arguably been consumed with this dream for so long to just let go... which links in with your idea of him living in the past / failure is likely.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by TheStudent.)
    I mean there are lots of criticisms surrounding the American Dream. Is it the pursuit of happiness or the pursuit of prosperity? I think that I've always defined the american dream as being the latter, where a typically average person (Gatsby) is able to break free from the the limitations of his class / background, and to better himself on a financial level. The film, 'The pursuit of happyness' starring Will Smith revolves around the same idea, except it brings race into the picture where even a black man can attain the American dream.

    Found this for you guys for A03:
    The idealistic vision of the American dream often disregards*discrimination*based on a person's race, religion, gender and national origin, which might inhibit his or her ability to achieve specific goals. Critics also point out that many versions of the dream equate prosperity with happiness, and that happiness is possible without wealth or even in poverty. To some people, the American dream might be more about personal fulfillment than about economic success or owning property.

    Is the text in bold what you're alluding to? Because of my interpretation of the american dream, I've always seen Gatsbys attainment of the american dream as separate from his dream of Daisy.

    In the exam, do make sure that you define what you personally believe the american dream to be, fundamentally, about so that the examiner doesn't get confused. It does make for an interesting argument hopefully you guys get a nice question for section A) b.

    I hope this is helping you with your revision anyway!
    Yah of course, but then again I don't know if I can define it as I don't think there's a definition for the American Dream! I think it's a combination of attributes and emotional achievements that Gatsby strives for, and it's that combination that forms his American Dream.

    To escape the past - check. (although debateable as he essentially chases the past in his pursuit of Daisy)
    To build a new life - check.
    Money - check. Wealth - check. Fitting in with the upper class - perhaps not a check? hahaha i don't know, getting carried away now
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    Only advice is not to be too dependant on one text for section A, if you get a horrible question, make sure you have a backup. Best of Luck.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    Anyone do Death of a Salesman and Handmaid's Tale for wider reading?
    • PS Helper
    Offline

    13
    ReputationRep:
    PS Helper
    (Original post by cjwalker)
    Yah of course, but then again I don't know if I can define it as I don't think there's a definition for the American Dream! I think it's a combination of attributes and emotional achievements that Gatsby strives for, and it's that combination that forms his American Dream.

    To escape the past - check. (although debateable as he essentially chases the past in his pursuit of Daisy)
    To build a new life - check.
    Money - check. Wealth - check. Fitting in with the upper class - perhaps not a check? hahaha i don't know, getting carried away now
    Declaration of independence, AO4:
    “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.” - Thomas Jefferson

    For AO3:
    In the definition of the American Dream by*James Truslow Adams*in 1931, "life should be better and richer and fuller for everyone, with opportunity for each according to ability or achievement" regardless of*social class*or circumstances of birth.

    He is somewhat forced to build a new life, or rather a new identity, due to his criminal activity.

    Do you think it forms his american dream or his aspiration in life?
    Offline

    9
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by cjwalker)
    Nah of course I believe that Gatsby loved Daisy! The novel's one of the greatest love stories of all time hahah I think, but also one of the most tragic. It's definately evident in that quote though about his "enchanted objects" diminishing by one; in that the reality of Daisy isn't what Gatsby had dreamed of and strived towards, it's quite tragic for Gatsby himself and obviously for the slight hints of objectification of women in the novel. That's just the battle between reality and disillusion that runs through the whole story But then again- you could argue that this is just an unreliable opinion given through Nick's sense of memory...AO2 AO2 AO22222 hahaha

    But yeh his death is definately ruled with sadness, moreso felt by the reader though, I think the reader feels sad that this whole time they've tracked the rise and fall of his American Dream and then he passes away, you'd have to be pretty cold not to find that sad
    what page is thatt quotee?
    hahahhah the moment where you're like take that english, i have a counter argument, I think Nick's sadness and frustration that none of Gatsby's 'friends' came to his funeral makes it sadder, poor gatsby.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by TheStudent.)
    Declaration of independence, AO4:
    “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.” - Thomas Jefferson

    For AO3:
    In the definition of the American Dream by*James Truslow Adams*in 1931, "life should be better and richer and fuller for everyone, with opportunity for each according to ability or achievement" regardless of*social class*or circumstances of birth.

    He is somewhat forced to build a new life, or rather a new identity, due to his criminal activity.

    Do you think it forms his american dream or his aspiration in life?
    Haha I've never thought/wanted to believe that he built his new life to escape his criminal past, I just view it as him wanting to make himself the best man he can be

    And does whaaat form his AD or aspiration in life?
    Offline

    9
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by TheStudent.)
    Before, when he had to resort to criminal activity / bootlegging.

    “…he stretched out his arms toward the dark water in a curious way, and, far as I was from him, I could have sworn he was trembling. Involuntarily I glanced seaward – and distinguished nothing except a single green light, minute and far away…”

    He must have known how unattainable his dream was once he became wealthy, and the green light somewhat symbolises this. His hands are "trembling", due to his fear of failure perhaps? Amd the light is "minute and far away", implying that his dream is out of reach.

    It could be argued that he continues to dream because he doesn't want to accept the reality of his situation since he's come so far and has arguably been consumed with this dream for so long to just let go... which links in with your idea of him living in the past / failure is likely.
    Oh ok, i thought you were talking about after and i was like say whatttt? hhahahah also you can counter argue the interpretation of "trembling" as excitement and anticipation that he can visually see his dream. and then you can counter argue that, Lets bust those AO2s
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by cjwalker)
    Haha of course, just ask anything
    Thank you! Really sorry to bug you, but was just wondering for some tips for section A part b), and also Section B, how would you approach the questions? I can do part a) ok, I just don't know what the examiners looking for

    (Original post by LillyLisa)
    Thank you!!
    No problem

    Also, does anyone know what grade boundaries are like? I've seen around 47/84, but that doesn't seem right- usually I get around 16/17 on section A part a) out of 21, which would leave me needing 30 more marks out of 63 to get an A which surely can't be right

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Zarah01)
    what page is thatt quotee?
    hahahhah the moment where you're like take that english, i have a counter argument, I think Nick's sadness and frustration that none of Gatsby's 'friends' came to his funeral makes it sadder, poor gatsby.
    Not sure what book you have so it may be different haha! But it's in Chapter 5, and in my book it's on page 90

    And yeh that ending with the funeral is definately pretty sad! It's tragic though, he's built himself up to be this amazing man yet he's got noone close to him, apart from Nick maybe..... stalker
    Offline

    9
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by cheetahs56)
    Thank you! Really sorry to bug you, but was just wondering for some tips for section A part b), and also Section B, how would you approach the questions? I can do part a) ok, I just don't know what the examiners looking for



    No problem

    Also, does anyone know what grade boundaries are like? I've seen around 47/84, but that doesn't seem right- usually I get around 16/17 on section A part a) out of 21, which would leave me needing 30 more marks out of 63 to get an A which surely can't be right

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Yup it is right, We only found out a week ago when we got our mock back but in the last few years the grade boundaries for an A has been around the 50% region more or less which is awesome! lets hope they stay there! having said that itll probably be like 70% for an A now :/
 
 
 
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • Poll
    Would you like to hibernate through the winter months?
    Useful resources

    Make your revision easier

    OMAM

    Ultimate Of Mice And Men Thread

    Plot, context, character analysis and everything in between.

    Notes

    Revision Hub

    All our revision materials in one place

    Love books

    Common grammar and vocabulary problems

    Get your questions asked and answered

    Useful literary websitesStudy help rules and posting guidelines

    Groups associated with this forum:

    View associated groups
  • See more of what you like on The Student Room

    You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

  • The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

    Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

    Quick reply
    Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.