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5 year old upsets homosexuals, thought police called in Watch

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    (Original post by Thriftworks)
    Adverts have been stressful in raising awareness in the past. Also we haven't tried adverts for this issue yet, education has been tried and has been sucessful but not enough ground has been made, more of the same is madness.
    Adverts work against things like drink driving because it people die, and they stop people from just ignoring that.
    At raising awareness for things, like male rape (the real men get raped adverts in London were very effective from what I read at the time).
    At helping people know what to do, or where to go.
    But for changing people's opinions on things where there's no physical hurt?
    I just can't see it working. It's the same as religious adverts you sometimes see on billboards, if people look at them and don't agree they just walk away.

    As for PSHE, I'm not talking about a 60 minute lesson plan, I'm pretty sure things to do with gay rights, sexuality and gender are taught all ready. All that needs to be added for this issue is around 15 minutes relating to the way we use language and the negative and derogatory impact it can have.
    That relates to women (the C word and P word are used as far more insulting than calling someone a D).
    That relates to racism (the N word being reclaimed would be a positive example).
    It relates obviously to homophobia, as we're talking about that.
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    (Original post by there's too much love)
    Adverts work against things like drink driving because it people die, and they stop people from just ignoring that.
    At raising awareness for things, like male rape (the real men get raped adverts in London were very effective from what I read at the time).
    At helping people know what to do, or where to go.
    But for changing people's opinions on things where there's no physical hurt?
    I just can't see it working. It's the same as religious adverts you sometimes see on billboards, if people look at them and don't agree they just walk away.

    As for PSHE, I'm not talking about a 60 minute lesson plan, I'm pretty sure things to do with gay rights, sexuality and gender are taught all ready. All that needs to be added for this issue is around 15 minutes relating to the way we use language and the negative and derogatory impact it can have.
    That relates to women (the C word and P word are used as far more insulting than calling someone a D).
    That relates to racism (the N word being reclaimed would be a positive example).
    It relates obviously to homophobia, as we're talking about that.

    What would you cut 15mins from during PSHE lessons? You still haven't answered this, PSHE lessons don't have unlimited time.
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    Findings and crossover seems obvious to me: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...-cultures.html
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    (Original post by ANARCHY__)
    omg just shutup man. you try and be like edgy and cool on every damn thread i swear.
    since my opinions seem to be in such a minority around here shouldn't you be like giving me extra rights or something?
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    (Original post by dbmag9)

    (a) Let's suppose the school has 500 pupils. By conservative estimates that means 25 or so who eventually come out as queer. Let's also suppose, since you think it's fine for one kid to use 'gay' as an insult, that this is widespread. That makes 25 children (plus the ones with queer relatives or family friends) who have to spend their formative years, and then later look back on their formative years, surrounded by people taking their identity and using it as an insult. Given how schools are supposed to be raising children, it seems pretty off-base to attack a school for helping create an environment that doesn't reject its own pupils.
    Absolute rubbish. First of all I think the 'conservative' estimates you and others like to give are often completely over-inflated, anyone who actually spends any time in the real world knows that 5% of our population isn't gay. Its probably more like 1% but noone can prove it anyway so its irrelevant

    Don't put words into my mouth as well, I don't think its fine for child to use gay as an insult , the child should have been disciplined in the standard way for a child of 5 years of age. What they shouldn't have done is brought in an organisation just for that sole reason for kids that young, its simply inappropriate like giving 5 year olds sex education is, especially Stonewall a charity who if you look at their Wikipedia page to start have been in a string of controversies.
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    (Original post by thesabbath)
    since my opinions seem to be in such a minority around here shouldn't you be like giving me extra rights or something?
    ^haha top sarcasm. Ledge.
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    (Original post by there's too much love)
    You don't think that on a subconscious level they could possibly be internalising homophobia but not have sufficient communication levels to articulate that?
    No. All that's going on is them disliking a person/thing and using a word that is synonymous with 'bad' to express that. They're not thinking "Oh, that reminds me of when a man is attracted to a man or a woman is attracted to a woman, and that is bad so I'll use it as an insult."
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    (Original post by Oschene23)
    Absolute rubbish. First of all I think the 'conservative' estimates you and others like to give are often completely over-inflated, anyone who actually spends any time in the real world knows that 5% of our population isn't gay. Its probably more like 1% but noone can prove it anyway so its irrelevant

    Don't put words into my mouth as well, I don't think its fine for child to use gay as an insult , the child should have been disciplined in the standard way for a child of 5 years of age. What they shouldn't have done is brought in an organisation just for that sole reason for kids that young, its simply inappropriate like giving 5 year olds sex education is, especially Stonewall a charity who if you look at their Wikipedia page to start have been in a string of controversies.
    The government uses the estimate of 6-8%, based on a meta-analysis commissioned when the Equality Act was being drafted. It seems a reasonable estimate based on my experience.

    What they did was bring in an organization to brief teachers on how to address specific issues. Where did you get the idea that this has anything to do with sex education?

    (Original post by Hopple)
    If you were to argue for this level of intervention for any namecalling, whilst I would think you were excessive, at least you'd be consistent. For five year olds, 'gay' is just another name they call someone/something who/which they dislike for whatever reason. There's no way a child (or anyone else using the meaning of 'gay' that is synonymous with 'bad', for that matter) is comparing the object of their criticism to two people of the same sex being attracted to each other. It's completely different to seeing someone who finds their own sex attractive and criticising them on that basis.
    It's excessive to have teachers say "don't say that, it's not nice" and be prepared to explain why? No wonder discipline is such a problem in schools.

    (Original post by tufc)
    The objection is that Stonewall as an organisation are not impartial. Young children should be taught how to think, not what to think.
    I'm sorry, but I really don't see what your problem is.

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    (Original post by mmmpie)
    I'm sorry, but I really don't see what your problem is.

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    What he is saying is that you have no right to impose your beliefs upon others and force them to think in a certain way.
    What you can do is present an argument and let people make a choice. For example is someone wishes to express homophobic views they should be allowed to express their views and you have the right to disagree but not to force them to be quiet.
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    (Original post by Thriftworks)
    What he is saying is that you have no right to impose your beliefs upon others and force them to think in a certain way.
    What you can do is present an argument and let people make a choice. For example is someone wishes to express homophobic views they should be allowed to express their views and you have the right to disagree but not to force them to be quiet.
    Should we also tolerate racist or misogynistic language in primary schools?

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    (Original post by mmmpie)
    It's excessive to have teachers say "don't say that, it's not nice" and be prepared to explain why? No wonder discipline is such a problem in schools.
    Kids will call each other names, it would be excessive to clamp down on it with the same reaction as they did for calling someone's shoes 'gay'. "Your shoes are stupid", "Your shoes are ugly", "Your shoes are dumb" etc. This was never a problem with regards to homosexuals, it was an issue a child took with someone or that someone's shoes.
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    (Original post by Hopple)
    No. All that's going on is them disliking a person/thing and using a word that is synonymous with 'bad' to express that. They're not thinking "Oh, that reminds me of when a man is attracted to a man or a woman is attracted to a woman, and that is bad so I'll use it as an insult."
    Funny, because the 5 year olds I've seen where I work seem t be intelligent enough to understand what the word means.
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    (Original post by mmmpie)
    Should we also tolerate racist or misogynistic language in primary schools?
    apparently not :rolleyes: i'm sure the blacks appreciate your hijacking of their "rights" crusade as much as homosexuals appreciate paedophiles tagging onto theirs, btw

    Data from 90 councils detail 87,915 ‘racist incidents’ at primary and secondary schools between 2007 and 2011.
    The number of recorded incidents would be substantially higher if the picture was replicated across all 200 local authorities in England, Wales and Scotland.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2148621/Britains-schools-record-115-racist-incidents-day-teachers-admit-seen-pupils-abused.html

    A boy of seven who asked a friend about the colour of his skin was told his comment was ‘racist’.
    Elliott Dearlove asked a five-year-old boy in the playground whether he was ‘brown because he was from Africa’.
    His mother, Hayley White, 29, was contacted by her son’s school saying he had been at the centre of a ‘racist incident’.
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    (Original post by mmmpie)
    Should we also tolerate racist or misogynistic language in primary schools?

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    Should 5 year olds be arrested for saying a certain word in the playground?
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    (Original post by Kiss)
    Should 5 year olds be arrested for saying a certain word in the playground?
    ...
    Who was arrested?
    Oh wait, you're purposefully straw manning for the sake of trolling.
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    (Original post by Hopple)
    Kids will call each other names, it would be excessive to clamp down on it with the same reaction as they did for calling someone's shoes 'gay'. "Your shoes are stupid", "Your shoes are ugly", "Your shoes are dumb" etc. This was never a problem with regards to homosexuals, it was an issue a child took with someone or that someone's shoes.
    The bit about the five year old and the shoes was made up by the press apparently, not that it really matters. Whether because of a particular incident, or just principle, a school became aware of the issues around homophobic language and bullying and invited the foremost organization in the country that deals with the issue to come and brief their staff on it. This was never about shoes.

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    Gay means happy right? :erm:
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    (Original post by Kiss)
    Should 5 year olds be arrested for saying a certain word in the playground?
    Have any been? Ever?

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    (Original post by there's too much love)
    ...
    Who was arrested?
    Oh wait, you're purposefully straw manning for the sake of trolling.
    You have such an ironic username......

    But to return to the point, no I'm not trolling. Of course you'll label it that since you're not prepared to debate with someone - it's a typical go-to tactic when someone doesn't want to engage.

    (Original post by mmmpie)
    Have any been? Ever?

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    No, but knowing someone like you who'd happily slap bans on what people can and can't say, I'd wager you'd want to do likewise.
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    (Original post by Kiss)
    You have such an ironic username......

    But to return to the point, no I'm not trolling. Of course you'll label it that since you're not prepared to debate with someone - it's a typical go-to tactic when someone doesn't want to engage.



    No, but knowing someone like you who'd happily slap bans on what people can and can't say, I'd wager you'd want to do likewise.
    So...you're telling me off for calling you a troll because you rely on straw-man arguments.
    And then happily go and validate what I've said by making it even clearer than before that you are making a straw-man argument.
    And I'm meant to think you're not trolling.

    Do you understand what a straw-man argument is?
 
 
 
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