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    (Original post by Lumberjack 101)
    "The rich" are doing something - where do you think the government gets it`s money from? It comes from income tax, capital gains, corporation tax etc paid by "rich people" and the companies they own.
    Oh are they actually paying their tax now?
    http://mark.goodge.co.uk/wp-content/..._n-550x387.jpg

    The multinational corporations that outsourced to China, India and Vietnam that pay their workers peanuts and makes them work extremely long hours. Those bastions of ethical business, who bring so much to society with their unpaid taxes.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/c...e-factory.html
    Those companies that hang nets from their factories so their workers can't commit suicide, rather than treat them like people.
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    (Original post by Lumberjack 101)
    I didn`t say it was running out specifically because of that. But if someone blows their cash down the bookies instead of paying the rent there is nothing stopping them from applying for (and getting) a budgeting loan to pay the rent. Budgeting loans come from a fixed pot of money and when it`s gone - it`s gone. The next person who comes along wanting to borrow to buy a suit for a job interview gets told "sorry none left".
    Yes, but unless you can show that what you describe is actually happening we have no more reason to believe that's the case than that the pot is running out because everyone is using it to buy interview suits or fix broken boilers.
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    (Original post by Huskaris)
    If free food is there, people will take it, people need to look at cause and effect.

    More and more food banks mean more and more people will use them?

    Personally I think as foodbanks are so commonplace now, they should receive state funding, knock £20 off benefits a week and make people use them.
    This is definitely what should happen
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    (Original post by Lumberjack 101)
    It was a hypothetical situation. And yes, people are refused budgeting loans frequently because there simply isn`t any more money available.
    So you have no solid evidence anything like this is happening aside from the fact that you 'think' it might be happening?
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    (Original post by Cylos)
    Oh are they actually paying their tax now?
    http://mark.goodge.co.uk/wp-content/..._n-550x387.jpg

    The multinational corporations that outsourced to China, India and Vietnam that pay their workers peanuts and makes them work extremely long hours. Those bastions of ethical business, who bring so much to society with their unpaid taxes.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/c...e-factory.html
    Those companies that hang nets from their factories so their workers can't commit suicide, rather than treat them like people.
    Yes, £220 billion of it (57% of government income). Without "the rich" and their tax revenue there would be no money to pay benefits with. no NHS, no schools, no student grants etc.

    99.9% of companies in the UK are SMEs with less than 250 employees. (http://www.fsb.org.uk/stats) who have no choice but to pay the tax due. Multinationals pay the amount of tax they are required to by law. What have foreign companies working practices got to do with this, other than an excuse to bring left wing emotional claptrap into the matter)? Pathetic.
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    Love how people always complain about how every person on benefits doesn't really need them and is simply squandering their tax money..

    Yet you don't hear them complaining about MPs and them wasting their money on expenses which they certainly don't need. Clearly brainwashed
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    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    Food banks kicked off as many decades ago and not just in the UK. All they are are a form if charity. If you're going to get upset, then get upset about every form of UK based charity.

    ISTR a report that charities seem to be more successful at delivering welfare packages in many cases than state intervention as charity workers are more likely to boot out the recipients that are trying to help themselves.

    What's the other answer? Financially reward those who can't budget and penalise those who can. There's plenty on benefits and low income that manage, but if I were on benefits if happily try and use a food bank. Who's going to turn away free food?
    The real proliferation in food-banks has only been since 2010. In 2009/2010 it is estimated that 40,000 people turned to food banks. It has risen massively, year-on-year and now stands at nearly 1,000,000 - you can't dismiss a rise like that. It's disgraceful; the government is turning a blind-eye to it and are constantly peddling myths and hatred surround the issue (just look at comments made by Freud, Gove, McVey, IDS et al on the topic).

    I support charity and commend the work of the voluntary sector. But they should not be shouldering such a burden; we have a welfare state for that. Charity should work alongside the welfare state - it shouldn't replace it. Considering that 52% (Trussell Trust figures) of those visiting food banks do so due to benefit sanctions or delays, it's pretty obvious that the welfare state is failing a significant amount of people. Bear in mind that last year a record number of sanctions were overturned (133,000) within 11 months i.e they were made in error, and that a 2011 poster in a Job Centre in Grantham indicated that Job Centre employees were being set 'sanction targets', it really raises worrying questions about the condition of our welfare state.

    You'd happily try and use a food bank to get the "free food"? If only it was that easy. People have to be referred to food banks; you can't just waltz in, fill your bags and head home.
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    (Original post by Rlove95)
    So you have no solid evidence anything like this is happening aside from the fact that you 'think' it might be happening?
    Do you think every one of the 1,120,000 budgeting loans made last year were made to people who didn`t smoke, drink, gamble, or take any form of unnecessary spending? According to ASH 33% of benefit recipients smoke, so that makes 370,000 unnecessary loans to people who could have gone without. That`s 370,000 loans alone that could have gone to people who had no spare cash due to reasons that were outwith their control.
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    Among the many reasons why people are poor is the ruinous cost of housing. Even working couples pay a disproportionate amount of rent or mortgage. Next is utilities. Next is poll tax. Next is work travel. What is left may not be quite enough and is bridged by debt in various forms. The fact is that many people simply do not have the Jesuit self discipline and self denial required to survive on inadequate amounts of cash for years on end. Faced with advertising and general TV in which everyone seems to have a high standard of living, and ready access to credit at ruinous interest rates, most people are simply slaves in an industrial economy. Some may make unwise choices. But people who never need to live in that way should not be judgemental. The fact is Cameron & Co has no personal knowledge or even any concept of what poverty is. The only mental model they can construct is that it must the "fault" of the victims.
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    (Original post by Jordooooom)
    Love how people always complain about how every person on benefits doesn't really need them and is simply squandering their tax money..

    Yet you don't hear them complaining about MPs and them wasting their money on expenses which they certainly don't need. Clearly brainwashed
    Most expenses are legit, however as with any system, there are those who abuse it. And unless you are a social outcast, you would hear people complain every day.

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    (Original post by the mezzil)
    Most expenses are legit, however as with any system, there are those who abuse it. And unless you are a social outcast, you would hear people complain every day.

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    Nowhere near the amount of people who complain about benefits, nor is it as demonised as benefits in the media. The expenses system is a total joke, not to mention most of those who abuse it don't even get punished for it.
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    (Original post by Jordooooom)
    Nowhere near the amount of people who complain about benefits, nor is it as demonised as benefits in the media. The expenses system is a total joke, not to mention most of those who abuse it don't even get punished for it.
    I disagree, I find more people complain about expenses than benefits. The expenses system is needed, but must be reformed.

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    (Original post by the mezzil)
    Bull ****. Have you seen how much a dominoes pizza costs?!

    I call bull **** on the fast food myth. No way is it cheaper to spend a fiver on one meal at mcdonalds than it is to buy canned/ frozen food that would feed a family of 4.

    Bull ****.

    Daily mirror wrires some utter bull some times. The photo is even faked. They arent exactly known for telling the truth. *cough* piers morgan.
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    Who mentioned Dominoes or McDonalds?

    Fast-food doesn't necessarily mean takeaway-food. Microwave meals are fast-food, too - I presume that's what the poster meant.
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    (Original post by Lumberjack 101)
    Yes, £220 billion of it (57% of government income). Without "the rich" and their tax revenue there would be no money to pay benefits with. no NHS, no schools, no student grants etc.

    99.9% of companies in the UK are SMEs with less than 250 employees. (http://www.fsb.org.uk/stats) who have no choice but to pay the tax due. Multinationals pay the amount of tax they are required to by law. What have foreign companies working practices got to do with this, other than an excuse to bring left wing emotional claptrap into the matter)? Pathetic.
    And if those who avoided/ evaded/ agreed with HMRC to have the amount to pay reduces, actually paid the amount they should do, we could more easily afford those institutions.

    Yes most companies are SMEs, but the minority of multinationals are not paying the amount they should do which means we have to slash public spending, which lessens efficiency which is then used as an excuse to privatise. Source: The NHS

    Working practises? The reason is that you argue that we 'need' them as if they are some wonderful paternalistic class that oversee us, I'm saying that they are not all wonderful. The profit motive is inherently destructive towards resources or people.

    It's not emotional claptrap, it's completely rational. The companies of HHS 19th and early 20th century disregarded the poor and sought greater levels of inequality... That led to far right and far left authoritarian regimes. There will be a breaking point of inequality, I am warning about it now as are others. The rise of far right parties such as the National Front, Jobbik and Golden Dawn shows that it is already starting. Ignore inequality at your peril.
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    (Original post by Burridge)
    Who mentioned Dominoes or McDonalds?

    Fast-food doesn't necessarily mean takeaway-food. Microwave meals are fast-food, too - I presume that's what the poster meant.
    So? If they can walk to the supermarket for the microwave meals, then they can walk to the supermarket for healthy food.

    And most people means fast food as in takeaways. So I was correct.

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    (Original post by Lumberjack 101)
    Do you think every one of the 1,120,000 budgeting loans made last year were made to people who didn`t smoke, drink, gamble, or take any form of unnecessary spending? According to ASH 33% of benefit recipients smoke, so that makes 370,000 unnecessary loans to people who could have gone without. That`s 370,000 loans alone that could have gone to people who had no spare cash due to reasons that were outwith their control.
    Just because someone smokes doesn't mean that they don't need the money. As far as I am aware, smoking is addictive, its not that easy to stop and a lot of people view it as a necessity. Who are you to decide what is 'unnecessary spending'?
    Just because you budget money so that you can buy something you view as a necessity doesn't mean you have 'spare cash'.
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    (Original post by the mezzil)
    Most expenses are legit, however as with any system, there are those who abuse it. And unless you are a social outcast, you would hear people complain every day.

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    Most people who use benefits are not fraudsters or 'lazy' yet you seem to hear people complain about them everyday.
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    (Original post by Cylos)
    And if those who avoided/ evaded/ agreed with HMRC to have the amount to pay reduces, actually paid the amount they should do, we could more easily afford those institutions.

    Tax avoidance is perfectly legal. Buying a house, paying into a pension, using an ISA etc are all tax avoidance and perfectly legal. If it wasn`t then the government wouldn`t have introduced schemes like ISAs or stakeholder pensions would they?

    Yes most companies are SMEs, but the minority of multinationals are not paying the amount they should do which means we have to slash public spending, which lessens efficiency which is then used as an excuse to privatise. Source: The NHS

    Multinationals pay the amount of tax they are required to BY LAW. Perhaps someone should change the law if they don`t think it`s enough............

    Working practises? The reason is that you argue that we 'need' them as if they are some wonderful paternalistic class that oversee us, I'm saying that they are not all wonderful. The profit motive is inherently destructive towards resources or people.

    Who else are we going to tax to pay for all the public spending - the unemployed? The homeless? If it wasn`t for the profit motive we would still be living in the middle ages.

    It's not emotional claptrap, it's completely rational. The companies of HHS 19th and early 20th century disregarded the poor and sought greater levels of inequality... That led to far right and far left authoritarian regimes. There will be a breaking point of inequality, I am warning about it now as are others. The rise of far right parties such as the National Front, Jobbik and Golden Dawn shows that it is already starting. Ignore inequality at your peril.
    .......................
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    (Original post by the mezzil)
    And most people means fast food as in takeaways. So I was correct.
    You were not correct - you wrongly assumed the poster's position. Intentionally or not, you straw-manned him - he wasn't referring to takeaways when he said "fast-food", it doesn't matter what most people consider fast food to be - it was his argument you were challenging and therefore his definition of fast food.
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    (Original post by Rlove95)
    Just because someone smokes doesn't mean that they don't need the money. As far as I am aware, smoking is addictive, its not that easy to stop and a lot of people view it as a necessity. Who are you to decide what is 'unnecessary spending'?
    Just because you budget money so that you can buy something you view as a necessity doesn't mean you have 'spare cash'.
    Whatdafaq?

    No **** are not a necessity. Dont be absurd.

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