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State school kids are less intelligent than other types. Discuss. Watch

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    (Original post by L'Evil Fish)
    Am I a state school kid?

    Nursery - Year 11 : (****) state schools
    Sixth Form: private
    Depends at what age the comparison was made.
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    (Original post by PythianLegume)
    Depends at what age the comparison was made.
    I like calling myself a state schooler :emo:

    I'm not like the others!
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    (Original post by L'Evil Fish)
    I like calling myself a state schooler :emo:

    I'm not like the others!
    But one of the reasons private schoolers are more intelligent is because many of them have a selective intake.
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    (Original post by PythianLegume)
    But one of the reasons private schoolers are more intelligent is because many of them have a selective intake.
    Lol they needed me to fill a quota the week before school started because someone dropped out. I'm not complaining, got a free private education :cool:

    They're just so hard working it's crazy.
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    (Original post by Damien_Dalgaard)
    Is it true that state(meaning here average comps and below, excluding grammar, so non-selective maintained schools) school students academically are less able than private/grammar/boarding/private candidates.

    I am classifying grammar schools to be separate to state, i.e. King Edwards, Colchester Grammar go under grammar and not state.

    Also not including schools like K12 and those that have high entry requirements for students i.e. Hills etc.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education...ults-2013.html

    Obviously I know of some users in particular here, who are extremely smart and go to state comps, but on the whole state=worse :yep: Big picture guys.

    Also plz none of the James Dyson, Alan Sugar responses - talking about the current crop, plus those entrepreneurs had great ideas anyway.

    Discuss.
    Generally speaking yes it's a fact state school kids are the least intelligent, the league tables show it quite clearly, they also don't have to pass entrance exams and they're taught by worse teachers. Like I said this is all generally speaking, there are of course a few exceptions


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    This is a pointless question. I've had experience of both and you find thick state school kids, but also thick private school kids. But you also find very clever state school kids and very clever private school kids (which is what a lot of jealous state schoolers tend to forget as many seem to believe that we are all privileged, snobbish toffs who are destined to become billionaires). The aforementioned snobs don't really exist at the vast majority of private schools (which are definitely not all Etons and Harrows as many people seem to think; most are a lot more modest in their means). So I guess this question doesn't really have an answer, since obviously you can't equate a parent's money with their child's intelligence, and although at some selective private schools and state grammar schools there will be a few more clever kids than is the norm, you find a healthy mix of abilities at both private and state schools. And P.S, a private school education isn't a million times better than a state school one like so many seem to think; private schools still have some awful teachers and almost everyone has access to specifications, textbooks, past papers and a trillion resources online nowadays regardless of which school system you are in. Its up to you to make the best use of them.
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    (Original post by arrow900)
    I hope you mean ratio by "amount" otherwise your point is irrelevant since there are more state school students than private school students overall.

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    Well of course I meant ratio because why would I, myself, want to make an irrelevant point

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    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    But then it simply a truism

    "rich people have more money"

    "people who can run faster win more 100m races"

    Independent schools get better exam results and university entrance is linked to school exam performance.
    I'm not referring to school exam performance, though - I'm referring university exam performance. Unless you're saying that independent schools secretly coach their alumni through university, or that the education received at those schools has such momentum as to ensure greater success at university, I don't understand how your points relate to mine.

    In any case, it is a simple fact that independent-schooled university students attain more highly on average in their final degree results than state-schooled students do. That's all I was saying.
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    (Original post by L'Evil Fish)
    Lol they needed me to fill a quota the week before school started because someone dropped out. I'm not complaining, got a free private education :cool:

    They're just so hard working it's crazy.
    Did you get a full ride?

    (Original post by Alludeen1)
    This is a pointless question. I've had experience of both and you find thick state school kids, but also thick private school kids. But you also find very clever state school kids and very clever private school kids (which is what a lot of jealous state schoolers tend to forget as many seem to believe that we are all privileged, snobbish toffs who are destined to become billionaires). The aforementioned snobs don't really exist at the vast majority of private schools (which are definitely not all Etons and Harrows as many people seem to think; most are a lot more modest in their means). So I guess this question doesn't really have an answer, since obviously you can't equate a parent's money with their child's intelligence, and although at some selective private schools and state grammar schools there will be a few more clever kids than is the norm, you find a healthy mix of abilities at both private and state schools. And P.S, a private school education isn't a million times better than a state school one like so many seem to think; private schools still have some awful teachers and almost everyone has access to specifications, textbooks, past papers and a trillion resources online nowadays regardless of which school system you are in. Its up to you to make the best use of them.
    Well you could consider this - the people coming out with the 7 A stars at A Level tend to go to the top grammar schools, also from those on here who have done well - the vast majority have gone to private schools.

    Also the smarter ones who go average comps. gcse on here generally uproot and go to private/grammar.

    And those that get mediocre grades and then end up doing well in future tend to go to average comps - hence justifying that there is a difference :yep:

    But I would still consider a student's ethos in their desire to study than other factors to an extent.

    Also reg comps only care about league tables, and the world class bs whereas in grammar/private etc. they give more support/encouragement on things like BM01, better trips etc.
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    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    I appreciate what you are saying but my point is about the paucity of underpinning data. Effectively that research isn't a study of separated twins.

    I wonder how many different pairs of separated twins have ever been studied and how many of those are really different environments as opposed to one kid being brought up by a coal miner in one West Virginia coal mining community and the other kid brought up by a mechanic in another West Virginia coal mining community 20 miles down the road with the researcher trying to draw profound distinctions between the socio-economic position of miners and mechanics in West Virginian coal-mining communities.
    There are studies with in excess of 10,000 pairs of separated twins. It's not necessary to have totally disparate upbringings to be able to infer the general heritability of intelligence from these studies. For example, Wiki says: monozygotic (identical) twins raised separately are highly similar in IQ (0.86), more so than dizygotic (fraternal) twins raised together (0.6) and much more than adoptive siblings (~0.0). Brackets refer to correlation.

    Obviously if you want to find the relationship between heritability and SES, then studies such as Turkheimer come into play. There is also this large longitudinal UK study on 8716 twin pairs which by contrast seems to find little difference in heritability between low-SES and high-SES families, but that low-SES families exert a greater influence of shared environment. I haven't read it in detail myself.

    Interestingly, there seems to be a couple of molecular genetic studies that have been done recently that also come up with a similar lower bound for heritability to conventional twin studies, which estimate heritability at between 50-80%. "A novel molecular genetic method for estimating heritability calculates the overall genetic similarity (as indexed by the cumulative effects of all genotyped single nucleotide polymorphisms) between all pairs of individuals in a sample of unrelated individuals and then correlates this genetic similarity with phenotypic similarity across all the pairs. A study using this method estimated that the lower bounds for the narrow-sense heritability of crystallized and fluid intelligence are 40% and 51%, respectively. A replication study in an independent sample confirmed these results, reporting a heritability estimate of 47%."
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    (Original post by Damien_Dalgaard)
    Did you get a full ride?



    Well you could consider this - the people coming out with the 7 A stars at A Level tend to go to the top grammar schools, also from those on here who have done well - the vast majority have gone to private schools.

    Also the smarter ones who go average comps. gcse on here generally uproot and go to private/grammar.

    And those that get mediocre grades and then end up doing well in future tend to go to average comps - hence justifying that there is a difference :yep:

    But I would still consider a student's ethos in their desire to study than other factors to an extent.

    Also reg comps only care about league tables, and the world class bs whereas in grammar/private etc. they give more support/encouragement on things like BM01, better trips etc.
    I agree that private schools in general tend to get higher grades, because of a combination of more attention and parents who are often more encouraging of hard work, but I don't think grades reflect intelligence as well as they should - nowadays, a lot of the people who get the highest grades aren't necessarily the brightest, but are the hardest-working. Private schools tend to have a more conducive environment to high-achieveing (and thus pushing bright students) whereas quite a lot of state schools focus on the C/D grade borderline just to satisfy Michael Gove's silly league tables. If state schools weren't so focussed on these league tables and parents were in a better position to encourage their child and instil a hard-working ethos, in my opinion the disparity between state schools and private schools (in general, not in every case) would start to disappear.
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    TSR students intellectual capabilities over 9000.
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    (Original post by Damien_Dalgaard)
    Did you get a full ride?



    Well you could consider this - the people coming out with the 7 A stars at A Level tend to go to the top grammar schools, also from those on here who have done well - the vast majority have gone to private schools.

    Also the smarter ones who go average comps. gcse on here generally uproot and go to private/grammar.

    And those that get mediocre grades and then end up doing well in future tend to go to average comps - hence justifying that there is a difference :yep:

    But I would still consider a student's ethos in their desire to study than other factors to an extent.

    Also reg comps only care about league tables, and the world class bs whereas in grammar/private etc. they give more support/encouragement on things like BM01, better trips etc.
    Yep!
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    (Original post by Alludeen1)
    I agree that private schools in general tend to get higher grades, because of a combination of more attention and parents who are often more encouraging of hard work, but I don't think grades reflect intelligence as well as they should - nowadays, a lot of the people who get the highest grades aren't necessarily the brightest, but are the hardest-working. Private schools tend to have a more conducive environment to high-achieveing (and thus pushing bright students) whereas quite a lot of state schools focus on the C/D grade borderline just to satisfy Michael Gove's silly league tables. If state schools weren't so focussed on these league tables and parents were in a better position to encourage their child and instil a hard-working ethos, in my opinion the disparity between state schools and private schools (in general, not in every case) would start to disappear.
    This is an excellent point. I concur. Also state schools appear fixated on their league tables, whereas because at the top sixth forms i.e. Colchester Grammar, Eton, Hills Road etc. nearly everyone their gets excellent grades hence giving them a high position in the league tables anyway.
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    (Original post by L'Evil Fish)
    Yep!
    That's pretty damn impressive.

    I bet your parents love you for that

    Did they only look at your GCSE's or anything else
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    (Original post by Damien_Dalgaard)
    That's pretty damn impressive.

    I bet your parents love you for that

    Did they only look at your GCSE's or anything else
    Well it was a week before school started haha, so I was gonna go to a different sixth form happily. So glad it happened though.

    Hmmmm... Well everyone else did tests and that. Because I was so late I just had an interview kind of thing and showed my GCSE/AS/A2 certificates.
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    (Original post by L'Evil Fish)
    Well it was a week before school started haha, so I was gonna go to a different sixth form happily. So glad it happened though.

    Hmmmm... Well everyone else did tests and that. Because I was so late I just had an interview kind of thing and showed my GCSE/AS/A2 certificates.
    Fair enough, glad everything worked out for you :yep:
 
 
 
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