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Oxford or Cambridge for Law and do you reckon I have a chance to get in? Watch

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    (Original post by Goods)
    They won't know that. beyond cambridges obsession with AS ums it's your grades that matter not your marks.

    Ok so you think I should apply?
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    (Original post by andreastitan)
    I want to send you a private message, could you clear some space in your messages so I could send you it? would really appreciate it
    Sure, done.
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    Hi, I haven't read any previous posts so forgive me if I'm repeating. I'm an offer holder to read law at Oxford so apologies if any bias creeps in.

    I wouldn't advise you to make your choice entirely based on your grades. Naturally if you don't have the grades don't apply. But if you do manage 85+ UMS at AS level, it's a very positive indicator. Your A*s at IGCSEs are just around the average number for Oxonians which, as I remember, is 7. But having 2 fewer will not disadvantage you frankly.

    I would advise you to, if you fulfill both entry requirements, check out the two courses themselves. Oxford doesn't offer as many options as Cambridge does, instead focussing heavily on the core subjects. Thus you come out with a knowledge of more subjects at Cambridge but a better knowledge of the core subjects at Oxford.

    Oxford's course (p. 12-16): http://www.law.ox.ac.uk/published/BA...ecs2013-14.pdf
    Cambridge's course: http://www.law.cam.ac.uk/courses/tri...f-subjects.php

    PS: Choose Oxford.
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    (Original post by andreastitan)
    So I read that oxford look at applicants that have between 4-7A* or higher. Considering that the A*'s were in the 90's % and the A's were a few marks off an A* it's okay.

    P.S. Playing a musical instrument actually is of some importance, as it exhibits a variety of different, strong skills that can be needed in law. Plus a Grade 5 in theory and Grade 7 in the instrument is actually useful.
    It enhances your application ofc, just don't waste too much PS space.

    I think PS, interview and LNAT are going to be key. Your other grades are good but will not be outstanding compared to the competition.

    What books are you reading? You certainly don't need ten.
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    FYI I did (and still do) think Cambridge's course looks a lot better.
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    (Original post by Endless Blue)
    FYI I did (and still do) think Cambridge's course looks a lot better.
    I'm reading 'understanding law', 'meditations', "The Law Machine", 'Story on philosophy' Also I started writing my personal statement and I was just planning on mentioning it at the end. Mostly academic and focusing on the work experience.
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    (Original post by Endless Blue)
    It enhances your application ofc, just don't waste too much PS space.

    I think PS, interview and LNAT are going to be key. Your other grades are good but will not be outstanding compared to the competition.

    What books are you reading? You certainly don't need ten.
    The others are LNAT and some other like John Grisham
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    (Original post by andreastitan)
    Ok so you think I should apply?
    If you get straight A's i don't see why not. I personally think more weight is put on interview performance than other factors. I had very high UMS and didn't get a place at my choice due terrible interviews (offer in the end via pool natsci)


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    (Original post by Goods)
    If you get straight A's i don't see why not. I personally think more weight is put on interview performance than other factors. I had very high UMS and didn't get a place at my choice due terrible interviews (offer in the end via pool natsci)


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    So you think I can get to the interview stage?
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    (Original post by andreastitan)
    So you think I can get to the interview stage?
    For Oxford, I'd say yes if your predicted grades are AAA at least, you get AAA at AS-Level, get an LNAT score of 26+ and have a decent Personal Statement.
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    (Original post by andreastitan)
    I'm reading 'understanding law', 'meditations', "The Law Machine", 'Story on philosophy' Also I started writing my personal statement and I was just planning on mentioning it at the end. Mostly academic and focusing on the work experience.
    I didn't read any of those, although I've heard Understanding Law is good. I think the best thing to do in your PS is find a case (the more relevant the better, or something contentious still today works well), read up on it (academic book), then find law journals etc (some of these are accessible online) and expound your view on the judgment(s) in light of your reading. What About Law? is useful in this sense, because it provides several interesting cases from which you can explore.

    Keep work experience to a paragraph - unless you get something really good it won't be relevant to your course. One work experience I did at a fairly large firm was a total waste of time, so I didn't even mention it.
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    (Original post by andreastitan)
    So you think I can get to the interview stage?
    I dont know. Wait until the 14th and ask with numbers rather than predictions.


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    I am no lawyer but if anyone wants an interesting legal argument / case for their PS may I suggest the CPR Jackson reforms and the ensuing Mitchell costs embroglio with particular emphasis on the intervention of the Master of the Rolls? If lawyers think this is not a good choice let us hear it please.
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    (Original post by andreastitan)
    So you think I can get to the interview stage?
    What I do think is that any person incapable of doing his own research and who furthermore is attempting to smooth over his own limitations, whilst suggesting a heavy and pervasive sense of entitlement and further one who needs constant reassurance as to whether he should / should not apply to a university of his own choice from a lot of disinterested and ill informed observers like me will never make a half way competent lawyer in any field.
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    (Original post by Old_Simon)
    What I do think is that any person incapable of doing his own research and who furthermore is attempting to smooth over his own limitations, whilst suggesting a heavy and pervasive sense of entitlement and further one who needs constant reassurance as to whether he should / should not apply to a university of his own choice from a lot of disinterested and ill informed observers like me will never make a half way competent lawyer in any field.
    The only reason I made this thread was to get a wider range of opinions my friend. I have done tons of research and I have admitted my limitations, so you're wrong. Also if you're disinterested just don't type no-one asked you to, although I do appreciate your help and constructive criticism.
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    (Original post by Old_Simon)
    I am no lawyer but if anyone wants an interesting legal argument / case for their PS may I suggest the CPR Jackson reforms and the ensuing Mitchell costs embroglio with particular emphasis on the intervention of the Master of the Rolls? If lawyers think this is not a good choice let us hear it please.
    I'd be wary personally.

    The CPR, and even its reform, is more to do with actually being a lawyer (most undergrad law students will vaguely know what the CPR is, but ask them what Part 36 does or the details of disclosure and it's likely they won't be too certain at all) and not theoretical law. The details of the Mitchell case in terms of a CMC, costs budgets, CFAs, CPR 3.9, 12, PD51B etc. would be alien to most undergrads, and even career academics, unless they happened to do a vac scheme in a CDR department during a costs dispute, and certainly would have been to me until I started the LPC/paralegalling.

    Costs matters, by their very nature, are an area which has a much greater impact on practice than study, and which will be only briefly touched upon. The detail of costs is something you're much more likely to pick up though practice as a commercial litigator (because it affects what you take home each month) than through academia, and I'd be inclined to stick to something more theoretical for a PS.
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    (Original post by Le Nombre)
    I'd be wary personally.

    The CPR, and even its reform, is more to do with actually being a lawyer (most undergrad law students will vaguely know what the CPR is, but ask them what Part 36 does or the details of disclosure and it's likely they won't be too certain at all) and not theoretical law. The details of the Mitchell case in terms of a CMC, costs budgets, CFAs, CPR 3.9, 12, PD51B etc. would be alien to most undergrads, and even career academics, unless they happened to do a vac scheme in a CDR department during a costs dispute, and certainly would have been to me until I started the LPC/paralegalling.

    Costs matters, by their very nature, are an area which has a much greater impact on practice than study, and which will be only briefly touched upon. The detail of costs is something you're much more likely to pick up though practice as a commercial litigator (because it affects what you take home each month) than through academia, and I'd be inclined to stick to something more theoretical for a PS.
    This is interesting and I bow to your experience and knowledge. I recognise the difference between academic and professional studies. But the suggestion was that a good PS might include some study / analysis of a case.
    It seems odd in that context to describe any law as "theoretical". Real law affects real people and has real results. The content of the undergrad course is not really material. Again the suggestion was that a bit of study prior to completing a personal statement might be useful. OT IMHO a thorough understanding of the Court's approach to CPR would put most people off any desire to practise for good I would imagine.
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    (Original post by Old_Simon)
    This is interesting and I bow to your experience and knowledge. I recognise the difference between academic and professional studies. But the suggestion was that a good PS might include some study / analysis of a case.
    It seems odd in that context to describe any law as "theoretical". Real law affects real people and has real results. The content of the undergrad course is not really material. Again the suggestion was that a bit of study prior to completing a personal statement might be useful. OT IMHO a thorough understanding of the Court's approach to CPR would put most people off any desire to practise for good I would imagine.
    It would certainly make you inlined towards a transactional job I imagine!

    You certainly could come at it from an access to justice, the legal system as w hole point of view, which does crop up at undergrad. It's more just that it doesn't really show that you've looked into any theory of law, the CPR is very much about the practicalities of it, the theory behind it is just 'You ain't racking up mega costs any more'. By contrast if you looked into, say criminal, there are various philosophical arguments behind it all which you can show you're able to grasp.

    Also, just pandering to academics' own biases to be honest, I imagine they view costs matters as all a bit mercenary.
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    (Original post by Le Nombre)
    It would certainly make you inlined towards a transactional job I imagine!

    You certainly could come at it from an access to justice, the legal system as w hole point of view, which does crop up at undergrad. It's more just that it doesn't really show that you've looked into any theory of law, the CPR is very much about the practicalities of it, the theory behind it is just 'You ain't racking up mega costs any more'. By contrast if you looked into, say criminal, there are various philosophical arguments behind it all which you can show you're able to grasp.

    Also, just pandering to academics' own biases to be honest, I imagine they view costs matters as all a bit mercenary.
    Well I think it is a bit more than that. The CA and the MR in particular have taken it upon themselves to tip our legal system and notions of access to justice upside down and furthermore are doing so in the face of legislation. The recent ruling in Denton was an absolute nadir in our legal history including inter alia the priceless spectacle of Lord Jackson dissenting. The entire structure of civil proceedings as a meaningful arena to recover damages at sensible cost has collapsed into judicially led "reform", endless uncertainty and monumental increases in costs. It is no longer about CPR or costs. It is about constitutional propriety. That's my 2 cents. It fascinates me but I am neither a lawyer nor student. It is clearly arguable that Dyson should resign. (He can not be fired unfortunately of course). This is unprecedented in our history. That must be of interest to any law student with an interest in practising in the future I would think. OT: I think Criminal law is the least interesting of all but that is me.
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    (Original post by Old_Simon)
    Well I think it is a bit more than that. The CA and the MR in particular have taken it upon themselves to tip our legal system and notions of access to justice upside down and furthermore are doing so in the face of legislation. The recent ruling in Denton was an absolute nadir in our legal history including inter alia the priceless spectacle of Lord Jackson dissenting. The entire structure of civil proceedings as a meaningful arena to recover damages at sensible cost has collapsed into judicially led "reform", endless uncertainty and monumental increases in costs. It is no longer about CPR or costs. It is about constitutional propriety. That's my 2 cents. It fascinates me but I am neither a lawyer nor student. It is clearly arguable that Dyson should resign. (He can not be fired unfortunately of course). This is unprecedented in our history. That must be of interest to any law student with an interest in practising in the future I would think. OT: I think Criminal law is the least interesting of all but that is me.
    It has been on the cards ever since Woolf though, we knew it was coming, it was just a question of when.

    Explaining the constitutional element would be difficult within the paragraph at most you'd have for it in a PS. If it continues it will likely just make cases outside the CC, TCC and big ticket QBD litigant in person only and end high street litigators. It's a big access to justice issue, but the political will isn't there for anything besides an acceleration. Big firms are still fine, their litigation departments have the staff and the funding to ensure they stick to timetables and clients who want to go to court are usually angry and willing to put the farm on it.

    Whether that will happen I'm not sure, the current SC line up would I suspect be inclined to allow a big sanctions appeal as and when it occurs, plus there's signs of some quite kind interpretations of 'Denton' in the lower courts.

    http://civillitigationbrief.wordpres...-to-pay-costs/
 
 
 
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