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    (Original post by alevelzzz)
    It depends on the type of lawyer and where they work being 'prestigious' etc. This is because lawyers salaries can vary GREATLY. A lot of lawyers in England probably don't break 50k. Whereas every single doctor/dentist is going to break 50k regardless of where they work.
    Medical professionals have a smaller range of pay, but with this comes not just many lawyers earning good but fairly middling salaries but also many who earn hundreds of thousands and millions annually. http://www.prospects.ac.uk/barrister_salary.htm

    Most doctors and dentists easily earn 50k early on in their careers, but there is nowhere near as much opportunity for substantial advancement beyond that for most of them as there is for lawyers. According to prospects, hospital doctors earn c. 20k at the start, rising to 28k and in specialist training they receive c. 30k. I did work experience at a City commercial chambers where annual pupils were paid c. 45k right at the start, and that is common in London. I don't understand how this makes law generally 'overrated'. It depends entirely on the individual as to how rewarding the profession can be.
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    (Original post by vimto39)
    The whole point of making an example of this gentleman is that if you end up at a non-target University, you still can succeed if you are, for want of a better word 'special'. Considering his main area of practice is Contact and Commercial Law, an EC demonstrating commercial awareness or such will almost certainly be expected to differentiate amongst all the other candidates who have shadowed Judges and have an array of Mini-P's. You cannot deny that running your own business successfully is an excellent example of going beyond the aforementioned.
    ...and I haven't. I've been arguing that this exceptional achievement is probably what got him the job, and that it therefore seems misleading to use him as an example of the potential to succeed at the Bar from London Met when there are going to be very few if any who have the same.
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    (Original post by Birkenhead)
    Medical professionals have a smaller range of pay, but with this comes not just many lawyers earning good but fairly middling salaries but also many who earn hundreds of thousands and millions annually. http://www.prospects.ac.uk/barrister_salary.htm

    Most doctors and dentists easily earn 50k early on in their careers, but there is nowhere near as much opportunity for substantial advancement beyond that for most of them as there is for lawyers. I don't understand how this makes law generally 'overrated'. It depends entirely on the individual as to how rewarding the profession can be.
    Thats my point though, A VERY LARGE proportion of lawyers will not make >50k and definitely will not be barristers.
    In terms of POTENTIAL salary, yes, Law>Dentistry>Medicine
    In terms of GUARANTEED salary Medicine/Dentistry>Law.

    How many lawyers have the potential to become barristers though? lol

    Also, its important to take note of working hours, training length and WHERE somebody works to take a real gauge of their salary.
    Solicitors outside of Inner city London won't earn even close to the lawyers in inner London. Whereas dentists and doctors earn the same amount of money regardless of where they work in the country.

    By overrated Im talking about the perception people have of the job/degree FOR THE MOST PART. Going to court, working on big cases, posh firms etc is only available to maybe less than 5% of law grads?
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    (Original post by alevelzzz)
    It depends on the type of lawyer and where they work being 'prestigious' etc. This is because lawyers salaries can vary GREATLY. A lot of lawyers in England probably don't break 50k. Whereas every single doctor/dentist is going to break 50k regardless of where they work.

    Besides, I think dentistry has only become prestigious/highly respected in the last 20 years in England. I think its only been in the last 20 years where dentists have been earning very high salaries and dentistry now being arguably the most competitive course at university.
    I completely agree with you. I don't think anyone thinks otherwise do they? Even the random man on the street can see that a lawyer in a high street firm is never going to be on a salary to rival that of a lawyer in a MC or global law firm. I'm not even disagreeing with you about dentistry/medicine being better paid/more consistent etc. The difference between the two however does not render a "law degree or being a lawyer 100% overrated"! If I was brilliant and everything and enjoyed studying all/any subjects equally, I would ofcourse study medicine or dentistry in terms of good, guaranteed pay. That isn't the choice that many get- most people aren't good at everything (like myself- essay writing and arguing are my thing, science and logic isn't!) and even if you were a good all-rounder you would have a preference and a greater interest in the arts or the sciences. Therefore you can't compare them as like for like. Being a lawyer is not then, overrated- if you're good and do well the sky is the limit how is that overrated? If you're average it's more problematic. Is the problem then not the student's mediocrity rather than the career itself? It can't be THAT overrated given it's so damn popular!
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    Agreed too many people are studying law 😂


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    Maybe some people want to study Law because they're interested in the subject. Who cares whether a lot of people are STUDYING Law? It's actually about the people who want a career in Law, not everyone does. And tbh, 40-50k is a very comfortable salary that many people would love to have so it's not such a huge loss.


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    Anyone seen the latest statistics of 17500 law graduates for 4500 jobs?
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    (Original post by Birkenhead)
    Medical professionals have a smaller range of pay, but with this comes not just many lawyers earning good but fairly middling salaries but also many who earn hundreds of thousands and millions annually. http://www.prospects.ac.uk/barrister_salary.htm

    Most doctors and dentists easily earn 50k early on in their careers, but there is nowhere near as much opportunity for substantial advancement beyond that for most of them as there is for lawyers. According to prospects, hospital doctors earn c. 20k at the start, rising to 28k and in specialist training they receive c. 30k. I did work experience at a City commercial chambers where annual pupils were paid c. 45k right at the start, and that is common in London. I don't understand how this makes law generally 'overrated'. It depends entirely on the individual as to how rewarding the profession can be.
    Actually doctors start at 23k in 1st year BASE pay. They get a 30-50% bonus just for working more unsociable hours aka night shifts, there isn't even an increase in hours (officially though you work much longer than the "40 hours a week" they say you do).

    In second year this rises to 28k. So it is very easy to get 35k salary in FY1 rising to 42k in FY2.

    This increases when you enter specialty training and banding continues up until consultant level when you enter with a base pay of 75k rising to 101k after 19 years on the job. You also can get clinical excellence awards up to 75k as well as discretionary points from 3k-25k and distinction awards from 31k-75k as well as more minor bonuses for intensity up to 3k.

    But if you look at the salary you can easily see a mid career 40s consultant earning 110-130k a year after bonuses and for the most well known successful and good at schmoozing consultant up to 275k a year.

    Also don't forget consultants can go private, and plastic surgeons can make very high salaries. American salaries are ridiculous as well, with some of the specialities clearing 300k a year average in take home pay (after overhead but not taxes (but as they don't earn salary they pay lower taxes as well as being able to expense cars and homes for business purposes etc).

    The average doctor certainly makes more than the average lawyer. The best lawyers make more than the best doctors however, as you can see, doctors can work their way up as well.

    If you are very keen, you can read this document, it has all the salaries listed including bonuses
    http://www.nhsemployers.org/~/media/...-MD-2-2014.pdf
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    (Original post by Okorange)
    Actually doctors start at 23k in 1st year BASE pay. They get a 30-50% bonus just for working more unsociable hours aka night shifts, there isn't even an increase in hours (officially though you work much longer than the "40 hours a week" they say you do).

    In second year this rises to 28k. So it is very easy to get 35k salary in FY1 rising to 42k in FY2.

    This increases when you enter specialty training and banding continues up until consultant level when you enter with a base pay of 75k rising to 101k after 19 years on the job. You also can get clinical excellence awards up to 75k as well as discretionary points from 3k-25k and distinction awards from 31k-75k as well as more minor bonuses for intensity up to 3k.

    But if you look at the salary you can easily see a mid career 40s consultant earning 110-130k a year after bonuses and for the most well known successful and good at schmoozing consultant up to 275k a year.

    Also don't forget consultants can go private, and plastic surgeons can make very high salaries.

    The average doctor certainly makes more than the average lawyer. The best lawyers make more than the best doctors however, as you can see, doctors can work their way up as well.

    If you are very keen, you can read this document, it has all the salaries listed including bonuses
    http://www.nhsemployers.org/~/media/...-MD-2-2014.pdf
    You have to take into account the amount of hours doctors work too... ALSO, doctors earn the same salary regardless of where they work, lawyers only make big salaries in London most of the time.
    Dentists have it the best on the whole in terms of hours:salary. You can easily earn 100-150k as a dentist by 40 years old and you didn't have to slog your life away in a hospital either...
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    Note: i'm watching suits and my opinion of corporate law has shot through the roof
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    (Original post by Okorange)
    Note: i'm watching suits and my opinion of corporate law has shot through the roof
    Oh god no...
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    (Original post by alevelzzz)
    Oh god no...
    blame Harvey Specter and Mike Ross
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    (Original post by barristertobe91)
    I completely agree with you. I don't think anyone thinks otherwise do they? Even the random man on the street can see that a lawyer in a high street firm is never going to be on a salary to rival that of a lawyer in a MC or global law firm. I'm not even disagreeing with you about dentistry/medicine being better paid/more consistent etc. The difference between the two however does not render a "law degree or being a lawyer 100% overrated"! If I was brilliant and everything and enjoyed studying all/any subjects equally, I would ofcourse study medicine or dentistry in terms of good, guaranteed pay. That isn't the choice that many get- most people aren't good at everything (like myself- essay writing and arguing are my thing, science and logic isn't!) and even if you were a good all-rounder you would have a preference and a greater interest in the arts or the sciences. Therefore you can't compare them as like for like. Being a lawyer is not then, overrated- if you're good and do well the sky is the limit how is that overrated? If you're average it's more problematic. Is the problem then not the student's mediocrity rather than the career itself? It can't be THAT overrated given it's so damn popular!
    Not to be picky, but wouldn't its overbearing popularity lend credence to the idea that it's overrated?

    Studying law with the intention of making it into the City is becoming a bit of a lottery. In that sense, I think there is an inflated perception of the security the legal field represents for students and graduates.
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    (Original post by TurboCretin)
    Not to be picky, but wouldn't its overbearing popularity lend credence to the idea that it's overrated?

    Studying law with the intention of making it into the City is becoming a bit of a lottery. In that sense, I think there is an inflated perception of the security the legal field represents for students and graduates.
    This is exactly my point.
    A law degree is not comparable to a medicine/dentistry degree in terms of job prospects, yet the perception is that they're the same.
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    (Original post by alevelzzz)
    Unless you're a top top student.


    Discuss.

    EDIT: Unless you go to one of the top 5 unis, chances are you're not going to land a top job paying a 'lawyer's' salary.
    Also, very long hours, a lot of cases are incredibly boring.
    BS, my Dad is a reasonably senior barrister at a top London chambers (applying for Q.C this year) and often sits on the panels for awarding pupilage and scholarships. He's said many times that they wish more people outside of Oxbridge would apply, as Oxbridgites tend to be a very 'set' group of people. They view Manchester/Leeds/Bristol/Edinburgh/Exeter etc. candidates with just as much regard as Oxbridge. But not many apply because of threads like this I suppose... CVs and interviews are far more important than your Uni, as long as your Uni is reasonably well regarded.

    Starting salaries are £60,000 if anyone's interested
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    (Original post by alevelzzz)
    This is exactly my point.
    A law degree is not comparable to a medicine/dentistry degree in terms of job prospects, yet the perception is that they're the same.
    The legal industry is changing rapidly. If you want the traditional City law firm experience, the waters are rising fast. However, changes are occurring which should give rise to further opportunities in the industry for those enterprising enough to take advantage of them.

    With regards to medicine vs (City) law, there is a risk/reward tradeoff which other users have already mentioned.
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    What work experience and voluntary work do they like? Apart from working in a law firm and office of course 😄
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    (Original post by alevelzzz)
    Anyone seen the latest statistics of 17500 law graduates for 4500 jobs?
    You might care to read my post from another thread.

    http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/show...9#post49557269
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    (Original post by TurboCretin)
    Not to be picky, but wouldn't its overbearing popularity lend credence to the idea that it's overrated?

    Studying law with the intention of making it into the City is becoming a bit of a lottery. In that sense, I think there is an inflated perception of the security the legal field represents for students and graduates.
    Haha! I get what you're saying but I don't agree! Being overrated is a subjective idea- law degrees are (rightly or wrongly) impressive! For the most part good unis ask for AAA or above, law degrees teach students analysis, attention to detail, reasoning etc etc that is useful to so many other careers. In that sense, it's not overrated. I understand what you're saying though and maybe too many students assume that if they do a law degree, they will have their ideal careers guaranteed!

    A lottery? I don't think so, it's just difficult. If you have a first from Oxbridge/a Russell Group/Red Brick uni, work experience etc etc and you're a solid candidate then you have a very good chance of making it into the City. If you're less impressive (as I am- I got a 2.1 from a RG/RB uni) then yes it's less likely but it's not a ridiculous gamble. Like anything else, surely, the very very best candidates succeed and, I'm sure if you asked them their thoughts on studying law they wouldn't say it was overrated.
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    Isn't doing a Math, English or a Science degree and then taking an LLP more popular nowadays anyway?
 
 
 
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