TSR's rules on offensiveness - reform needed? Watch

Ggmu!
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#81
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#81
(Original post by Captain Jack)
No need to worry, I can assure you we are not. Nov 2014 had more people register than any other Nov in TSR's history and likewise with posters and traffic.

That's largely thanks to the changes that do happen and the great community.

Look, I don't disagree with you that our rules need reviewing and updating more frequently than they have been.
Probably mostly dupes and trolls, nothing to be proud of. The overzealous moderation have created an atmosphere of easy offence on TSR which has made this place a goldmine for trolls.

Your attitude here has shown you're not really open to any change.

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Captain Jack
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#82
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#82
(Original post by Ggmu!)
Probably mostly dupes and trolls, nothing to be proud of. The overzealous moderation have created an atmosphere of easy offence on TSR which has made this place a goldmine for trolls.

Your attitude here has shown you're not really open to any change.

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I'm all about change, me. I just need to have it presented in the right way.
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s64turing
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#83
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#83
you can start by unbanning me
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She-Ra
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#84
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#84
(Original post by Arkasia)
I will start by saying that I think TSR, for the most part, has accurate and necessary rules to prevent anarchy from descending. I also think that some posters are overly offensive and that this is not conducive to a constructive forum.

However, I think the rules of 'offensiveness' have gone too far, and the notion of something being 'offensive' is too vague. This report option has enabled OPs and those commenting to cover their backs or their stupid opinions by simply claiming the other person is being 'insulting' or 'demeaning', and due to the vagueness of the rules, almost guarantees the other poster to receive a warning or a card. These are also extremely hard to over-turn, as mods are forced to play it safe and say 'well, this particular word MIGHT have been taken as offensive'.

Should TSR update it's offensive rules to include derogatory words, insults, slang, or comments that can be proven to be offensive (or have multiple different people reporting it)? I think it should. What about everyone else?
I was hardly online in December so just seen this I will be checking this out now as we welcome the discussion on this.

If anyone else has any thoughts please comment in this thread.

Cheers SR.
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spotify95
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#85
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#85
(Original post by s64turing)
you can start by unbanning me
Don't think that saying you've previously been banned is going to work somehow...

I'd love to hear the outcome of this thread, and whether any of the rules are indeed changed!
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Drunk Punx
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#86
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#86
Unless it's bordering on bullying, offensiveness is completely subjective. Nothing needs to be changed. Ain't broke, no fixy.
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username917703
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#87
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#87
With regards to offensiveness, the football mods are doing a very good job and in return you don't see people acting like dicks. Best part of the forum.
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pocahontas lol
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#88
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#88
(Original post by Arkasia)
I will start by saying that I think TSR, for the most part, has accurate and necessary rules to prevent anarchy from descending. I also think that some posters are overly offensive and that this is not conducive to a constructive forum.

However, I think the rules of 'offensiveness' have gone too far, and the notion of something being 'offensive' is too vague. This report option has enabled OPs and those commenting to cover their backs or their stupid opinions by simply claiming the other person is being 'insulting' or 'demeaning', and due to the vagueness of the rules, almost guarantees the other poster to receive a warning or a card. These are also extremely hard to over-turn, as mods are forced to play it safe and say 'well, this particular word MIGHT have been taken as offensive'.

Should TSR update it's offensive rules to include derogatory words, insults, slang, or comments that can be proven to be offensive (or have multiple different people reporting it)? I think it should. What about everyone else?
People can report for whatever they want, but it's annoying and frustrating as well to get carded for things only worth a warning, or for the silliest reports to be obligated. It's like "I don't like what you said, even if I tried to insult you as well, report."

I also feel it's totally inequitable Am I the only person who has had posts pulled in the middle of a debate with another person and their post stays?
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Arkasia
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#89
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#89
So is anything going to happen?
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-Rainbow Drops-
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#90
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(Original post by Arkasia)
So is anything going to happen?
Probably not

Posted from TSR Mobile
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Puddles the Monkey
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#91
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#91
(Original post by Arkasia)
So is anything going to happen?
(Original post by -Rainbow Drops-)
Probably not

Posted from TSR Mobile
Hey, at the moment we're reviewing the warning system messaging to make things clearer for everyone Hopefully there should be an update soon.
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Arkasia
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#92
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#92
(Original post by Puddles the Monkey)
Hey, at the moment we're reviewing the warning system messaging to make things clearer for everyone Hopefully there should be an update soon.
Great, I look forward to the update.
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A5ko
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#93
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#93
What would the 'professionally offended' do if the rules were to change!
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Josb
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#94
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1) I think there should be a blue card for excessive use of the report function. Imo, what happens is that some people are offended by everyone who disagrees with them, then mods are flooded with reports and fire their cards without taking the time to read posts in their context. I received cards for ironic and sarcastic messages, which, taken separately, could break the rules.

2) The blue card for trolling should also be removed; you can receive this kind of card for a single post, whilst I think that "trolling" is writing many non-related posts in the same thread. The definition TSR uses for trolling is very subjective, because in some sections, the overwhelming majority of posts are off topic and therefore could be categorized as "trolling". Rules should be less tight in non-academic sections. I don't go in the debate and current affairs for that reason; in this section, trolls are randomly given for offensiveness/trolling/non-related posts.

3) A bit of sensibility would also be welcome, I received a card because I said "w**ker" in a thread about a woman making yoghurt with her vagina. I don't think anyone could be offended by what I said in a thread like this. I would however have agreed with the card if I had said that in the study-help section.

4) There should also be the possibility to make an "appeal" to the section leader when receiving a card or banned. It would be easier than creating a fake account and/or a thread in AAM.
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samba
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#95
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(Original post by Arkasia)
Great, I look forward to the update.
Why? Their response is to change the text of the warning messages, not change any systems or attitudes. Nothing is changing. It'll be something akin to the 'a warning is now a blue card' change, meaningless.

(Original post by Puddles the Monkey)
Hey, at the moment we're reviewing the warning system messaging to make things clearer for everyone Hopefully there should be an update soon.
This is a total cop out. But then you already know that.
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Rakas21
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#96
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#96
(Original post by Arkasia)
I will start by saying that I think TSR, for the most part, has accurate and necessary rules to prevent anarchy from descending. I also think that some posters are overly offensive and that this is not conducive to a constructive forum.

However, I think the rules of 'offensiveness' have gone too far, and the notion of something being 'offensive' is too vague. This report option has enabled OPs and those commenting to cover their backs or their stupid opinions by simply claiming the other person is being 'insulting' or 'demeaning', and due to the vagueness of the rules, almost guarantees the other poster to receive a warning or a card. These are also extremely hard to over-turn, as mods are forced to play it safe and say 'well, this particular word MIGHT have been taken as offensive'.

Should TSR update it's offensive rules to include derogatory words, insults, slang, or comments that can be proven to be offensive (or have multiple different people reporting it)? I think it should. What about everyone else?
I'll admit it right here.. i am the type of the person to report (mainly to have a thread cleaned rather than because i feel offended) but i don't agree with you.

When i create a thread i expect the content of my thread to be debated, not for people to start a spat because one of you is up Thatcher's ass and the other wants to dance on her grave, as such any deviation from the content is something i consider pollution of my thread. Equally if i find a thread i like elsewhere then i don't need to read a page of people calling each other idiots because they are incapable of debating the content rather than attacking the person.

In short, if people are intellectually incapable of debating a point then don't ****ing post in the goddamn thread and certainly don't whine or whinge when you get your your spam deleted whether it's actually offensive or not, because i still don't need to read it.
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Josb
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#97
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#97
(Original post by Rakas21)
I'll admit it right here.. i am the type of the person to report (mainly to have a thread cleaned rather than because i feel offended) but i don't agree with you.

When i create a thread i expect the content of my thread to be debated, not for people to start a spat because one of you is up Thatcher's ass and the other wants to dance on her grave, as such any deviation from the content is something i consider pollution of my thread. Equally if i find a thread i like elsewhere then i don't need to read a page of people calling each other idiots because they are incapable of debating the content rather than attacking the person.

In short, if people are intellectually incapable of debating a point then don't f***ing post in the goddamn thread and certainly don't whine or whinge when you get your your spam deleted whether it's actually offensive or not, because i still don't need to read it.
Put them on your ignore list then, rather than taking the mods' time and reporting everybody who doesn't debate as you want.
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Arkasia
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#98
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#98
(Original post by samba)
Why? Their response is to change the text of the warning messages, not change any systems or attitudes. Nothing is changing. It'll be something akin to the 'a warning is now a blue card' change, meaningless.



This is a total cop out. But then you already know that.
Because them responding with something utterly useless at least advances the discussion more than if it were to just be completely ignored.
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TornadoGR4
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#99
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It's fine as it is. Well, at least in the sections I frequent anyway
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spotify95
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#100
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(Original post by Josb)
1) I think there should be a blue card for excessive use of the report function. Imo, what happens is that some people are offended by everyone who disagrees with them, then mods are flooded with reports and fire their cards without taking the time to read posts in their context. I received cards for ironic and sarcastic messages, which, taken separately, could break the rules.

2) The blue card for trolling should also be removed; you can receive this kind of card for a single post, whilst I think that "trolling" is writing many non-related posts in the same thread. The definition TSR uses for trolling is very subjective, because in some sections, the overwhelming majority of posts are off topic and therefore could be categorized as "trolling". Rules should be less tight in non-academic sections. I don't go in the debate and current affairs for that reason; in this section, trolls are randomly given for offensiveness/trolling/non-related posts.

3) A bit of sensibility would also be welcome, I received a card because I said "w**ker" in a thread about a woman making yoghurt with her vagina. I don't think anyone could be offended by what I said in a thread like this. I would however have agreed with the card if I had said that in the study-help section.

4) There should also be the possibility to make an "appeal" to the section leader when receiving a card or banned. It would be easier than creating a fake account and/or a thread in AAM.
Here's what I think to this:
1) Yes and no really. Blue cards should be given for misuse of the report facility, but not for actually reporting stuff that is offensive - or breaks any other guideline. But I do agree that posts should be read, wrt the context of the thread, before cards are fired off. (Having said that I have only ever been carded for things that I know I shouldn't have done.)

2) As for trolling, it depends on the situation. Yes, for "minor" instances of trolling, cards shouldn't be given out on the first post (perhaps an informal warning via PM could be given, then cards given after multiple instances). However, for more serious offences, or for posts like these, which are blatantly obvious troll posts, then cards should definitely be given out in the first instance.

3) Your card for that post was probably to do with the swear filter, more than anything else. Most swear words are filtered out, though I am surprised that words such as "******" or "tosser" (I used the latter word once and got an informal warning) aren't actually filtered out by the swear filter. Maybe the CT could look into making sure that all swear words are filtered?

4) As far as I am aware, cards and/or bans can actually be overturned via AAM threads/discussions, and if you get a temporary suspension/red card then of course you can email the Community Team during your ban, to discuss the reasoning behind it (and if it needs overturning). In my experience AAM has been very useful in determining why cards are given out - and in most cases the card has been down to an actual rule-break, rather than a dodgy decision. And of course you can ask for a second opinion/Section Leader/CT opinion on a case if you feel that things still haven't been resolved.

Hope thats addressed everything.

Edit: The word that you used in your post does in fact get caught by the swear filter - so looks like your card definitely was for breaking the swear filter, if you didn't star out the whole word in its entirety.
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