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Why are holocaust revisionist persecutor any better than Islamic terrorists? Watch

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    I believe 5,999,999 Joos died in the hollowcaust [gets sent to prison for hate speech]. I wonder if saying 6,000,001 is legal in France though?
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    (Original post by yabbayabba)
    It doesn't only apply to schools, also to politics and any public institution. Freedom to manifest one's religion comes under the freedom of speech umbrella, it is hypocritical.
    The rationale is probably that organised religion is not an individual's viewpoint, it's seen as advertising a foreign power, i e the Catholic Church which liked monarchs because it knew how to control them and had priests in local communities which could radicalise people against the revolution.

    France tolerates freedom of speech unless it goes against the state and is perceived as powerful enough to threaten it. Of course nowadays it's only in civic institutions that such a draconian interpretation is employed.
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    No. Millions of people died, and recently - it was only what, 70 years ago? Denying that the holocaust happened is a crime and so it should be. Horrible horrible events, anyone saying otherwise is evidently hateful towards the Jewish people.
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    (Original post by XMaramena)
    No. Millions of people died, and recently - it was only what, 70 years ago? Denying that the holocaust happened is a crime and so it should be. Horrible horrible events, anyone saying otherwise is evidently hateful towards the Jewish people.
    Drawing cartoons of the Prophet (PBUH) is deeply offensive and should also be a crime under your logic as it is hateful towards the Muslim people. Why is an exception made for the Jews and not for Muslims? I hear Islamophobia


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    (Original post by Reptilian)
    Drawing cartoons of the Prophet (PBUH) is deeply offensive and should also be a crime under your logic as it is hateful towards the Muslim people. Why is an exception made for the Jews and not for Muslims? I hear Islamophobia


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    You just made yourself sound very ignorant and stupid. Not only did I grow up in the middle east in an Islamic country, but drawing cartoons of Mohammed is not offensive to most people - in some beliefs, it could be construed as a tribute and personal gift. So don't screw around with your self righteousness trying to sound big by pulling people out of conversations that are completely innocent. Islamophobia my ARSE. We're all on this world together, and it's important that we work together to make it safe and friendly no matter what religion we follow. The sooner you realise that, the better.
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    (Original post by XMaramena)
    You just made yourself sound very ignorant and stupid. Not only did I grow up in the middle east in an Islamic country, but drawing cartoons of Mohammed is not offensive to most people - in some beliefs, it could be construed as a tribute and personal gift. So don't screw around with your self righteousness trying to sound big by pulling people out of conversations that are completely innocent. Islamophobia my ARSE. We're all on this world together, and it's important that we work together to make it safe and friendly no matter what religion we follow. The sooner you realise that, the better.
    First of all; calm down. Shouting won't do anything to enhance your argument. It's not the mere act of drawing the prophet (PBUH), it is the way in which they have satirised him, go look at the cartoons in question.

    Not only did they draw the Prophet (PBUH) but they also drew caricatures of black people as apes. Is this the 'freedom of speech' the media is trying to save and is praising so much? We are all in this together but we are not all equal. The media and the West has taken a staunch approach against Islam and regular everyday Muslims are constantly under attack by it. Is it any surprise that these terrorist attacks occur when Muslim countries are consistently invaded by the US and its European allies and Islam is ridiculed continuously?


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    Criminalising holocaust denial is ridiculous, obviously. It doesn't matter how much evidence there is to support that the event happened, denying it shouldn't be a crime. It's not illegal to deny that the French Revolution, the Japanese invasion of China, and the Spanish Civil War happened, for instance. Just makes you look like a bit of an idiot, but people have been acting like idiots since the dawn of humanity.

    But banning the muslim Darth Vader outfits is certainly a positive thing for France. Other European countries should follow suit. If you don't like it, you know where the door is...
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    (Original post by Reptilian)
    First of all; calm down. Shouting won't do anything to enhance your argument. It's not the mere act of drawing the prophet (PBUH), it is the way in which they have satirised him, go look at the cartoons in question.

    Not only did they draw the Prophet (PBUH) but they also drew caricatures of black people as apes. Is this the 'freedom of speech' the media is trying to save and is praising so much? We are all in this together but we are not all equal. The media and the West has taken a staunch approach against Islam and regular everyday Muslims are constantly under attack by it. Is it any surprise that these terrorist attacks occur when Muslim countries are consistently invaded by the US and its European allies and Islam is ridiculed continuously?


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    Nobody's shouting here. And for your information, there are muslim newspapers where I grew up that portray Jewish people as anthropomorphic pigs, so that argument that you've tried to start is invalid. Perhaps some people have taken a stand against Islam which is wrong and immoral - there are extremists on all religions. We just need to stand together and try to work together as a society, regardless of belief. If you're against that, then there's little hope for you.
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    (Original post by XMaramena)
    No. Millions of people died, and recently - it was only what, 70 years ago? Denying that the holocaust happened is a crime and so it should be. Horrible horrible events, anyone saying otherwise is evidently hateful towards the Jewish people.
    Jewish people shouldn't be offended. If it takes death and persecution to outlaw a view then I guess we're waiting for the deaths of muslims and "horrible events" right?

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    (Original post by yabbayabba)
    I agree that the fact that it is illegal to express religion in public in France is hypocritical, and makes no sense in conjunction with the idea of freedom of expression.

    But Holocaust denial is denying something that actually happened and can be proven physically. Religion isn't something that can be physically proven so far more debatable.

    I for one don't think total freedom of speech is a good idea or practical, and in fact it doesn't exist - people aren't entirely 'free' as some people don't express ideas they may have for fear they will be socially excluded.
    Religion can be proven physically, religion exists, i think what you mean is God can't be proven physically.

    I think people should be able to say what they want, if they want to deny the holocaust fine by me but as long as i have the right to call those people idiots
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    We don't have freedom of speech in the west here's another example.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...slam-HOAX.html
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    Because the holocaust was so blindingly obviously true that the only possible reason to deny it is due to antisemitic views and an intention to incite hatred.

    Holocaust denial poses a real danger to Jews.
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    Nothing. Most people are simply suffering from a combination of ignorance and hypocrisy, I suspect.

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    (Original post by yabbayabba)
    But Holocaust denial is denying something that actually happened and can be proven physically. Religion isn't something that can be physically proven so far more debatable.

    I for one don't think total freedom of speech is a good idea or practical, and in fact it doesn't exist - people aren't entirely 'free' as some people don't express ideas they may have for fear they will be socially excluded.

    Well can't be proven physically, unless you lived through it. It's like any other piece of history proven through writings and eye witness accounts. By the way, I have no doubt it occurred. Still doesn't excuse me the right to deny it, even if the fact I'm really stupid and ignorant to do so. It's an idea, and I should have the right to express it.

    There are strong sentimental values that even offend the french, it's just all a farce. No such thing as freedom of speech.
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    (Original post by DorianGrayism)
    Europe has a significant history of anti semitism that lead to the murder of 6 million Jews.

    Therefore, these laws were put in place to prevent it happening again. Whether they are an effective measure is another discussion.
    Don't be silly. Denying the holocaust is not a turn in events that will lead up to another one. Just admit it, there are sentiments that even emotionally touch the bastions of free speech.
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    I think the Holocaust should still be allowed to be up for debate and thus Holocaust denial shouldn't be a criminal offence. I dislike how the term anti-semite is thrown at anyone who might wish to discuss or question the Holocaust. It is as if the word anti-semite is used to silence people. If one were to deny the Holocaust they would not be called homophobic, how comes? Many gay people were killed during the Holocaust. If one were to deny the Holocaust, they would not get called antiziganist despite the fact that many gypsies were killed in it.

    The Holocaust should be debated as many details are questionable. Figures for the amount who died vary widely between sources. It is a false dichotomy to assume that there are only two positions within this dicussion, namely denial or acceptance of the Holocaust.

    I also don't like how the Holocaust is afforded special exemptions that other genocides don't have. The Holodomor happened around the same time as the Holocaust and is estimated to have killed similar amounts of people, yet the Holodomor can seem to be questioned or denied without one being labelled a castigating term. In fact, the UK government doesn't even officially recognise the Holodomor.

    So no, I don't think Holocaust denial should be criminalised. Debate is important and all sides have the right to voice their opinion regardless of how wrong it might be.
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    If people want holocaust revisionists jailed then they are not for freedom of speech
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    (Original post by The Epicurean)
    I think the Holocaust should still be allowed to be up for debate and thus Holocaust denial shouldn't be a criminal offence.
    It is only illegal in a very few countries.

    Deny it here if you want. But you will be ripped to shreds for being an ignorant idiotic f**kwit.

    (Original post by The Epicurean)
    I dislike how the term anti-semite is thrown at anyone who might wish to discuss or question the Holocaust.
    That's because those that do, are. And you dislike it because it offends you. I wonder why? :rolleyes:

    (Original post by The Epicurean)
    The Holocaust should be debated as many details are questionable. Figures for the amount who died vary widely between sources.
    Yes, millions or millions. It happened. They're dead. People killed them. Accept it. Then get on with your life.

    (Original post by The Epicurean)
    I also don't like how the Holocaust is afforded special exemptions that other genocides don't have.
    That's because it was a special genocide: industrialised killing by a civilised nation with a well-educated population.

    (Original post by The Epicurean)
    The Holodomor
    Stalin's mass killing of his own people is well known about.

    (Original post by The Epicurean)
    yet the Holodomor can seem to be questioned or denied without one being labelled a castigating term.
    Because nobody is denying it.

    (Original post by The Epicurean)
    So no, I don't think Holocaust denial should be criminalised.
    It's not, except in a very few countries. Watch:

    The Holocaust never happened.

    Only it did.

    (Original post by The Epicurean)
    Debate is important and all sides have the right to voice their opinion regardless of how wrong it might be.
    And the others can say those who deny it are anti-Semitic liars and those who defend them are ignorant idiotic f**kwits.

    Next?
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    (Original post by Simes)
    It is only illegal in a very few countries.

    Deny it here if you want. But you will be ripped to shreds for being an ignorant idiotic f**kwit.

    That's because those that do, are. And you dislike it because it offends you. I wonder why? :rolleyes:

    Yes, millions or millions. It happened. They're dead. People killed them. Accept it. Then get on with your life.

    That's because it was a special genocide: industrialised killing by a civilised nation with a well-educated population.

    Stalin's mass killing of his own people is well known about.

    Because nobody is denying it.

    It's not, except in a very few countries. Watch:

    The Holocaust never happened.

    Only it did.

    And the others can say those who deny it are anti-Semitic liars and those who defend them are ignorant idiotic f**kwits.

    Next?
    You've dissected his post quite neatly but in doing so completely missed the point. It doesn't matter whether the Holocaust happened or not; people still need to be free to present their views on the subject.

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    (Original post by Implication)
    You've dissected his post quite neatly but in doing so completely missed the point. It doesn't matter whether the Holocaust happened or not; people still need to be free to present their views on the subject.
    :mad: That's what I said.

    It is legal in almost all the world to do so.

    But when trying to claim the world is flat, or the moon is made of cream cheese or the Holocaust never happened, be prepared to be called names.
 
 
 
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