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    (Original post by RFUR1)
    My knowledge of Islam is very little and I am happy to admit that. I have not read Qur'an but I have read the entire Bible. Muslims believe in the Old Testament so I have a basic knowledge of some of the things Muslim believe in. The only problem is the Bible has been changed whereas the Qur'an has not been altered as much as the Bible has?
    that's great! You have a good knowledge of Islam, I really appreciate this, Thank you

    This is the reason why the Quran has not been changed :

    (الحجر: 9)(إنا نحن نزلنا الذِّكْر وإنا له لحافظون)
    Verily We: It is We Who have sent down the Dhikr (i.e. the Qur'an) and surely, We will guard it (from corruption) .


    That why can't anyone do any change in the Quran
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    (Original post by DiddyDec)
    No, they can think what they like.
    Well I disagree.


    (Original post by RFUR1)
    Yes they would but if they were given the choice of forcing Sharia on everyone would they do it? For instance if I preferred to live in a world where I paid no tax and there was no NHS (not saying I do) and I had the choice for this entire country to be governed like that I wouldn't change things as not everyone holds the same views as myself.
    Who knows if they'd force it upon others, I can't say they would, but you can't say wouldn't. When 86% of Muslims feel that religion is the most important thing in their life, who knows what they'd choose.
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    (Original post by sharin22)
    Chapter 2 verse 190 (surah Al-Baqarah) "And fight in the way of Allah, those who fight you but transgress not the limits. Truely,Allah likes not the transgressors. "
    This is the first verse revealed that is connected with jihad.
    we are only allowed to fight or kill people when we have to defend ourselves.
    And about that verse can u please give me the chapter number and ayat? I will check
    Verse 5:32/5:33

    Why does it contradict itself then (The Qu'ran)? one verse is clearly stating something completely different to the other.

    It should only state that the only rightful bloodshed is in self-defence, and it doesn't.

    It's not as if Mohammed (The prophet) stuck to the rules of self-defence.
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    (Original post by AstroNandos)
    Well I disagree.




    Who knows if they'd force it upon others, I can't say they would, but you can't say wouldn't. When 86% of Muslims feel that religion is the most important thing in their life, who knows what they'd choose.
    But how many (%) of Christians, Jews etc, would say that religion is the most important thing in their life? I can see the amount being around the same if not higher.
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    (Original post by RFUR1)
    But how many (%) of Christians, Jews etc, would say that religion is the most important thing in their life? I can see the amount being around the same if not higher.
    I disagree, many Christians and Jews consider their religion nothing more than a family tradition, that can be dropped at the first sign of trouble.
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    (Original post by Cremated_Spatula)
    I disagree, many Christians and Jews consider their religion nothing more than a family tradition, that can be dropped at the first sign of trouble.
    Not sure which Christians or Jews you know? The Christians I know say religion is the most important thing in their life. They live for their religion.

    They go to church regularly, go to all of the services etc.
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    (Original post by RFUR1)
    But how many (%) of Christians, Jews etc, would say that religion is the most important thing in their life? I can see the amount being around the same if not higher.
    I'm not sure, I'm not hugely against the other mainstream religions, but I find that Islam is the most 'dangerous' religion, with higher support for 'certain' statistics.
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    (Original post by RFUR1)
    Not sure which Christians or Jews you know? The Christians I know say religion is the most important thing in their life. They live for their religion.

    They go to church regularly, go to all of the services etc.
    Are you a Christian?

    Of course a Christian would tell a Christian that they are faithful and sinless...

    But would you really martyr yourself for your religion?

    Or would you, in the face of the most heinous of torture, deny your God?
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    According to my knowledge,ISLAM is'nt a religion of violence.The whole of the world is at one side and ISLAM at other side.people try to defame islam but in every islamic debate i took part,no muslim did say bad to the other religion's prophets or saints.i liked them cause of this reason!
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    (Original post by dumbgirl340)
    According to my knowledge,ISLAM is'nt a religion of violence.The whole of the world is at one side and ISLAM at other side.people try to defame islam but in every islamic debate i took part,no muslim did say bad to the other religion's prophets or saints.i liked them cause of this reason!
    We can't say anything to any of the prophets as prophets like Jesus and Moses are also prophets of Islam and so it is a must to believe in them.

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    (Original post by Cremated_Spatula)
    Are you a Christian?

    Of course a Christian would tell a Christian that they are faithful and sinless...

    But would you really martyr yourself for your religion?

    Or would you, in the face of the most heinous of torture, deny your God?
    No I am not a Christian. I have a close friend who is a Christian and he takes his faith seriously. He attends his Church whenever he can whether that be in the morning, day, evening, night and does fundraising while trying to bring in more young people into the Church. I am not saying he is sinless though.
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    Having read this thread it seems to be a "Here's why Islam is just as good/bad as Christianity andd Judaism" thread more than a "Here's why Islam is actually good" thread.

    That suggests to me that your problem is really that fact that other religions seem to have a better reputation, so to speak, as opposed to the fact that Islam has a bad reputation in general.

    Why is it that most of the arguments "in favour" of Islam on this thread.are something along the lines of "well X and Y did this too so they are just as bad". Sounds like most of you have no real defence of Islam at all.
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    Also, to the people claiming that Islam is tolerant of Christianity and Judaism and that Christians are the ones looking down on Muslims, I just say this.
    Show me a "Christian" country that denies Muslims the right to practice Islam and I'll show you 10 Muslim countries that restrict/forbid the practice of Christianity and Judaism. Then you can show me the Muslims in those countries sticking up for their Christian and Jewish brethren.

    I say "Christian" because the fact that Western countries are founded by Christianity does not correspond to the way in which some Asian and African countries are rooted in Islam.
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    (Original post by RFUR1)
    No I am not a Christian. I have a close friend who is a Christian and he takes his faith seriously. He attends his Church whenever he can whether that be in the morning, day, evening, night and does fundraising while trying to bring in more young people into the Church. I am not saying he is sinless though.
    Well just because you have a friend who you think is a top notch Christian doesn't mean most Christians (& Jewish) are.

    (It is impossible to be sinless, the bible says as much too.)

    Silly to think that even half are the "perfect" Christian let alone the majority. Just nonsense.
    (By that I mean, have their religion no 1 priority)

    Same goes for Islam, it is the extremists and the fanatics who consider their religion top priority.
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    (Original post by GailQ)
    Having read this thread it seems to be a "Here's why Islam is just as good/bad as Christianity andd Judaism" thread more than a "Here's why Islam is actually good" thread.

    That suggests to me that your problem is really that fact that other religions seem to have a better reputation, so to speak, as opposed to the fact that Islam has a bad reputation in general.

    Why is it that most of the arguments "in favour" of Islam on this thread.are something along the lines of "well X and Y did this too so they are just as bad". Sounds like most of you have no real defence of Islam at all.
    You have misunderstood my thread entirely. Judaism, Christianity, Islam etc, should all be viewed on an equal footing but some people seem to want to drag Islam down and **** all over because they have something against it. There are loads of people on the TSR who are insistent on tarnishing Islam and spreading slander. As I said in my original post I am not here to tell you why Islam is great, the Muslims are already doing that and can continue to do that. I am here to defend Islam from the constant bashing it seems to get and bring people (who need to be brought back to down to Earth) back down to Earth.

    You said:

    'That suggests to me that your problem is really that fact that other religions seem to have a better reputation, so to speak, as opposed to the fact that Islam has a bad reputation in general. '

    My problem is not the fact that other religions have a better reputation than Islam. I couldn't care less. I am not a Muslim. I have no personal agenda. My problem is when people attack and disrespect Islam, Muhammad and it's people when their arguments lack logic. That's just stupid. People seem to go on like Islam and some of its beliefs are alien when in fact they are no different to some of those in Christianity and Judaism.

    Then you said:

    'Why is it that most of the arguments "in favour" of Islam on this thread.are something along the lines of "well X and Y did this too so they are just as bad". Sounds like most of you have no real defence of Islam at all.'

    There are no arguments in favour of Islam, there are only arguments defending Islam. I am not saying that because Christianity and Judaism as well as Islam did this, believes this, follows this etc, they are just as bad.

    However saying these things and pointing out the similarities in beliefs and views between the religions help show the illogical and inconsistent views some people have while exposing hypocrisy and the double standards some hold against Islam on TSR.

    So it sounds like I do have a real defence of Islam.
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    (Original post by RFUR1)
    You have misunderstood my thread entirely. Judaism, Christianity, Islam etc, should all be viewed on an equal footing but some people seem to want to drag Islam down and **** all over because they have something against it. There are loads of people on the TSR who are insistent on tarnishing Islam and spreading slander. As I said in my original post I am not here to tell you why Islam is great, the Muslims are already doing that and can continue to do that. I am here to defend Islam from the constant bashing it seems to get and bring people (who need to be brought back to down to Earth) back down to Earth.

    You said:

    'That suggests to me that your problem is really that fact that other religions seem to have a better reputation, so to speak, as opposed to the fact that Islam has a bad reputation in general. '

    My problem is not the fact that other religions have a better reputation than Islam. I couldn't care less. I am not a Muslim. I have no personal agenda. My problem is when people attack and disrespect Islam, Muhammad and it's people when their arguments lack logic. That's just stupid. People seem to go on like Islam and some of its beliefs are alien when in fact they are no different to some of those in Christianity and Judaism.

    Then you said:

    'Why is it that most of the arguments "in favour" of Islam on this thread.are something along the lines of "well X and Y did this too so they are just as bad". Sounds like most of you have no real defence of Islam at all.'

    There are no arguments in favour of Islam, there are only arguments defending Islam. I am not saying that because Christianity and Judaism as well as Islam did this, believes this, follows this etc, they are just as bad.

    However saying these things and pointing out the similarities in beliefs and views between the religions help show the illogical and inconsistent views some people have while exposing hypocrisy and the double standards some hold against Islam on TSR.

    So it sounds like I do have a real defence of Islam.
    I bet quite a lot of people who criticize Islam/ the Qu'ran also criticize the Bible too.
    They'd probably do the same for the Torah if they knew more about it. (The list could go on...)

    Your argument hinges on how the individual feels about other religions.
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    (Original post by Cremated_Spatula)
    Well just because you have a friend who you think is a top notch Christian doesn't mean most Christians (& Jewish) are.

    (It is impossible to be sinless, the bible says as much too.)

    Silly to think that even half are the "perfect" Christian let alone the majority. Just nonsense.
    (By that I mean, have their religion no 1 priority)

    Same goes for Islam, it is the extremists and the fanatics who consider their religion top priority.
    I didn't say my friend is sinless and that most Jews and Christians are perfect, serious followers who are sinless. I was just giving you an example of one of the many Jews and Christians who do take their religion seriously. You seemed to suggest that the majority of Jews and Christians don't take their religion seriously? How would you know that? Have you got any statistics to back this up?

    I presume you don't agree with '86% of Muslims feel that religion is the most important thing in their life' from the study (?) as that would make 86% of the 1000 Muslims in the survey extremists and fanatics and the chances of that are very close to zero.
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    With recent terrorist events, the terrorists claim that they're Muslims. I wouldn't even consider them to be Muslims even if they worship Allah, they're pure terrorists.
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    (Original post by Cremated_Spatula)
    I bet quite a lot of people who criticize Islam/ the Qu'ran also criticize the Bible too.
    They'd probably do the same for the Torah if they knew more about it. (The list could go on...)

    Your argument hinges on how the individual feels about other religions.
    We all know that some of the people who hate Islam don't hold the same amount of hate for Christianity and Judaism. Some of those people are only intent on 'criticizing' Islam because they have a personal problem with it.
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    (Original post by RFUR1)
    I didn't say my friend is sinless and that most Jews and Christians are perfect, serious followers who are sinless. I was just giving you an example of one of the many Jews and Christians who do take their religion seriously. You seemed to suggest that the majority of Jews and Christians don't take their seriously? How would you know that? Have you got any statistics to back this up?

    I presume you don't agree with '86% of Muslims feel that religion is the most important thing in their life' from the study (?) as that would make 86% of the 1000 Muslims in the survey extremists and fanatics and the chances of that are very close to zero.
    I never said you said... -this is going to be one of those arguments. (It is the desire for Christians to be sinless)

    Have you backed your claims up with evidence? no... you simply stated it as a fact.

    I grew up as a Christian, I am mostly speaking from experience.

    Heuh, maybe they are fanatics- "a person filled with excessive and single-minded zeal, especially for an extreme religious or political cause."

    But I wouldn't be able to call them extremists. -"a person who holds extreme political or religious views, especially one who advocates illegal, violent, or other extreme action."

    As most deny the existence of scriptures that 'advocate violent, illegal or extreme action' in the Qu'ran or just ignore them.

    (Original post by RFUR1)
    We all know that some of the people who hate Islam don't hold the same amount of hate for Christianity and Judaism. Some of those people are only intent on 'criticizing' Islam because they have a personal problem with it.
    Yeah, I suppose if they were a Catholic, they can't exactly see their own book in the same light as they do with Islam haha (Even though it is practically the same)

    But that still doesn't make the argument any more valid.
 
 
 
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