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    (Original post by Chlorophile)
    The problem I have here is with your second paragraph. You will have undoubtedly come across the common attack on environmentalists "If you care about the environment so much, why do you use a car/use plastics/use electricity" etc. The obvious answer to that is that we live in a world addicted to the products of petroleum and as a result it's virtually impossible to avoid them. That certainly doesn't mean we will always have to use petroleum products but until we have the pressure to develop real alternatives, people will keep using them. The consumer certainly isn't innocent, but they're closer to the "unresponsive bystander" model than an employee of the industry itself that actually allows it to continue. This is particularly true of the petroleum engineers themselves, the people who make previously uneconomical reserves extractable, which really are the positions that people who want a high-paying job aim for. For these people - people trained in Earth Sciences - there are so many opportunities to work to actually improve the world but instead they work to trash it. The fact of the matter is that people aren't going to suddenly evacuate the petroleum industry so we really don't need to worry about the imaginary threat of losing fossil fuels before renewables become widespread - a much greater and imminent threat is the risk of the status quo continuing which everyone knows is going to lead to disaster. A geologically significant shift in the planet's climate is probably already inevitable anyway which makes damage control all the more important. Stopping potential future talent from going into this industry and putting their talents to good use would be a good step forward.

    We had decades of time to make a smooth transition decades ago. The longer we wait, the faster we're going to have to wean ourselves off fossil fuels once we actually properly start because emissions are cumulative. We've already left it late enough to the point where we'd already need the kind of rate of change you'd see in war preparation - and nobody in politics seems to be treating this with the urgency of a war when the stakes are quite possibly higher - and it's just going to get worse and worse the longer we wait. A rapid change to renewables is possible - there have been reports by reputable scientists that claim a transition is possible in a few decades and there's even one claim (I can try to find the paper if you want) that it's possible to do a total global switch to renewables by 2030. The thing we're lacking isn't technology, it's will. Fossil fuel corporations do not have a place in a sustainable society.
    For the most part, we agree - for the most part. The problem, like you say, is will, as opposed to people working in these companies.

    I'm willing to support environmental policy which approaches a transition to renewable energy sources with the urgency appropriate for the situation, but I don't think it's right to say of the people working in that industry that they're complicit in unnecessarily harming the environment when, like you say, the world is addicted to fossil fuels (and so relies on them).

    The difference between working in O&G, versus, for example, working in an abattoir, is that it's quite possible to live without consumption of the abattoir's products and there's no moral legitimacy to its existence. By contrast, O&G, while not perfect, can't be avoided in terms of consumption and is relied on by people for their everyday quality of life (including the vulnerable).

    What we need to do is change our reliance on O&G. If it gets to a stage when we don't rely on it, then sure, the situation changes and O&G loses its moral legitimacy. But the most I can say about the everyday employee in O&G is that they have a conflict of interest between their career and the environment. I think that that could lead to immoral behaviour but I don't think that's guaranteed.

    Edit: Actually the abattoir might not be a great example seeing as there are a lot of animal products that are used in electronics and all sorts of things. But supposing it were more clear-cut for the sake of analogy, I'll leave it.
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    (Original post by Maid Marian)
    I'm not clever enough and I enjoy the work of lowly paid jobs more.
    Says the person who got A in maths A level. :rolleyes:

    You will look like a freaking genius to most of the population (even though you aren't, may be you are, who nows :P but you know what I am saying).

    I know what you mean though. Although I wouldn't say it is because I am not clever enough, it is more I am not hard working enough and lazy :/

    I find it hard to devote so much time and energy to something I utlimatly don;t care that much about. Unless my job is one of my passions I would rather maximise free time for myself.
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    (Original post by miser)
    For the most part, we agree - for the most part. The problem, like you say, is will, as opposed to people working in these companies.

    I'm willing to support environmental policy which approaches a transition to renewable energy sources with the urgency appropriate for the situation, but I don't think it's right to say of the people working in that industry that they're complicit in unnecessarily harming the environment when, like you say, the world is addicted to fossil fuels (and so relies on them).

    The difference between working in O&G, versus, for example, working in an abattoir, is that it's quite possible to live without consumption of the abattoir's products and there's no moral legitimacy to its existence. By contrast, O&G, while not perfect, can't be avoided in terms of consumption and is relied on by people for their everyday quality of life (including the vulnerable).

    What we need to do is change our reliance on O&G. If it gets to a stage when we don't rely on it, then sure, the situation changes and O&G loses its moral legitimacy. But the most I can say about the everyday employee in O&G is that they have a conflict of interest between their career and the environment. I think that that could lead to immoral behaviour but I don't think that's guaranteed.

    Edit: Actually the abattoir might not be a great example seeing as there are a lot of animal products that are used in electronics and all sorts of things. But supposing it were more clear-cut for the sake of analogy, I'll leave it.
    But if the people who have the intellectual toolsets to drive the O&G industry forward keep joining the industry, the problem is just going to get worse and worse. You know as well as anyone that as far as the O&G industry is concerned, the planet could be totally uninhabitable for life in 100 years (obviously that's an exaggeration but still) time as long as its dividends to its share holders increase in the short term. A powerful O&G industry and positive environmental change are mutually exclusive - as long as the O&G industry has 'fuel' in the form of bright geologists, strategists, businessmen and engineers, it's going to carry on chugging along quite happily whilst the environment around it continues to degrade at an accelerating rate. The O&G industry isn't going to brought to its knees by a 'moral embargo' of talent but at least it's something. On top of that, as long as the O&G industry continues to remain powerful, 'bright-green' environmentalists are going to carry on pursuing red-herring 'solutions' like CCS and Geoengineering, neither of which are real solutions (the latter of which could be totally catastrophic) in desperation, sticking to the mantra "Some justice is better than no justice at all".
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    (Original post by Chlorophile)
    If you genuinely believe all of this then you're too disconnected from reality to understand any counterargument I'd give
    Cool so that's all you've got to say, no need to defend yourself being seen as a hypocrite...
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    Because why would you want to earn everything but hate every day of your job? I would much rather love what I do every day and earn less money.
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    (Original post by xylas)
    Cool so that's all you've got to say, no need to defend yourself being seen as a hypocrite...
    How exactly?
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    (Original post by Chlorophile)
    How exactly?
    "If I went into an industry like Oil & Gas, I wouldn't be able to live with myself"
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    I was very well paid for the last ten years of my career, but I worked ridiculous hours on 24x7 callout in order to get it. Sometimes what you have to do to earn really good wages, makes earning it pointless. I wanted to go on nice holidays, but work kept cancelling my leave. I wanted to move to a nicer house but I never even had time to house hunt properly, never mind manage all the legal and financial bits involved in buying/selling property.

    I paid off my mortgage, saved up enough money to support myself for a few years and couldn't have been happier to jump ship to uni. Never going back.
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    (Original post by Uncouth body)
    I'd like to become a teacher when I graduate. My sister earns £100k year working for Tesco. She's in work 9AM to 5PM every day and only has 2 weeks holiday a year.

    Having been to so many places abroad (as a student), I don't think I could sacrifice my freedom by being constrained by a job like my sister. I value my freedom above money.

    While I do enjoy teaching, I'm also attracted to the long holidays and although £30k is nothing to you, it's certainly enough to live in a nice apartment somewhere and go abroad travelling many times throughout the year.
    Out of interest, what does your sister do at Tesco?

    I don't think I've ever met/known anyone on six figures on just a 9-5 job, usually the hours are more excessive than that (minus medical professionals and entreprenuers).

    Also my cousin is a teacher/senior management and I have no idea why anyone would do that job. The hours and stress are horrendous, and you get vastly underpaid.

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    People want leisure time.

    And there isn't a correlation applicable to the entire population between academic achievements and working in The City. Different interests exist.


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    (Original post by xylas)
    "If I went into an industry like Oil & Gas, I wouldn't be able to live with myself"
    ...Why is that hypocritical?
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    (Original post by Anonynous)
    I really find it hard to understand why people go for low paid jobs when they seem to have the intellectual capability to aim for industries which are relatively well-paid.

    I see students who have the credentials and the profile potential to enter industries such as law, investment banking being etc.. but instead choose to go into places such as teaching. Are they just lazy?

    So if you do intend to get out of bed for a job that pays less than £50k a year and you're smart (i.e flawless grades/credible uni/strong ECs), why? what's your motivation?

    inb4, "it's my passion".
    I've studying veterinary medicine which pay a lot less than £50k a year but I could do medicine with my intellectually capacity and earn more. But, the fact is that I want to enjoy coming into work and so this is why I've made that choice - because there is nothing else I would want to do even if it paid more. I don't think a whopping salary would make me happy.

    I'm also not lazy, I spend the no. of year at uni as a the medicts/dentists but we have to learn about all sorts of species and not just one.
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    Abdul I usually agree with your posts but this thread is low.

    Some people want to actually make good use of their lives and that's by doing what they love.

    Yeah money is great but it really isn't going to make you happy.

    When you're a 90 year old patient at hospital, close to death, would you be happy you did what you loved or happy you just got a bunch of money which will do no good afterlife?
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    (Original post by Chlorophile)
    ...Why is that hypocritical?
    google hypocritical, first result:

    hypocritical
    adjective
    behaving in a way that suggests one has higher standards or more noble beliefs than is the case.
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    (Original post by xylas)
    google hypocritical, first result:

    hypocritical
    adjective
    behaving in a way that suggests one has higher standards or more noble beliefs than is the case.
    I'm still confused as to how I'm being hypocritical.
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    (Original post by Chlorophile)
    I'm still confused as to how I'm being hypocritical.
    Never seen a confused hypocrite before... Reread my posts if you feel like changing anytime
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    (Original post by Anonynous)
    I really find it hard to understand why people go for low paid jobs when they seem to have the intellectual capability to aim for industries which are relatively well-paid.

    I see students who have the credentials and the profile potential to enter industries such as law, investment banking being etc.. but instead choose to go into places such as teaching. Are they just lazy?

    So if you do intend to get out of bed for a job that pays less than £50k a year and you're smart (i.e flawless grades/credible uni/strong ECs), why? what's your motivation?

    inb4, "it's my passion".
    Have you graduated? If not when you do I would be genuinely interested to know what your starting salary is. I'm sure you have great potential but I would be stunned if it is close to £50K.
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    (Original post by Paulwyn)
    Have you graduated? If not when you do I would be genuinely interested to know what your starting salary is. I'm sure you have great potential but I would be stunned if it is close to £50K.
    Lol, don't worry.. the £50k will just be the base of it

    The bonus will make it worthwhile. I'm a first year uni student btw but grad role is almost pretty much sorted.
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    (Original post by xylas)
    Never seen a confused hypocrite before... Reread my posts if you feel like changing anytime
    Not entirely sure how you expect me to respond if you give me a random title without explaining why said title is relevant.
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    (Original post by Anonynous)
    I see students who have the credentials and the profile potential to enter industries such as law, investment banking being etc.. but instead choose to go into places such as teaching. Are they just lazy?
    The problems with having a high income are that you need time to spend it and you are interested in what is left over after cost of living. It isn't clear to me that an average performer in IB - who spends most of his £100-200k on tax and renting a small flat - is really doing any better than a provincial teacher whose modest salary will buy him a detached house, especially when the IBer is working 80 hours weeks and the teacher has 3 months' holiday a year.

    This becomes more true if you are 'overqualified' for teaching because you can pick out a nice private school and spend your working life in pretty much comparably luxurious environment without having to worry about disruptive or stupid pupils.
 
 
 
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