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Should 16 year olds have the right to vote? Watch

  • View Poll Results: Should 16 year olds be allowed to vote?
    Yes
    38.83%
    No
    54.37%
    Not sure
    6.80%

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    (Original post by Quady)
    Most do not know how the economy works at any age.

    I'd go as far as to say, nobody knows how the economy works.
    Seems like you've hit the nail on the head with that statement.

    But, 16 is to young to vote. At that age, a vast majority will still be easily swayed by friends, family members and the lies that fall out of the politicians mouths. Hell, some adults still are.

    All that would Happen is several hundred thousands to a million votes ( I dot. Know how many 16-17 year olds there and I definitely don't know how many will vote) will swarm the system and could tip the balance with badly thought out and irresponsible choices that will give us five years of hell again.
    If sixteen year olds could vote, Scotland could be its own country right now. That's where the problems lie. Scotland is better of in the UK, but youths probably would of voted Yes because we are rebellious and angry.

    this is just my own opinion and is definitely not right. I can think of many good counter arguments to what I just wrote, which would blow my post out of the water...
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    I think. As long as they have been though the whole of primary and secondary school.

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    (Original post by aoxa)
    I think you missed my point. I know lots of people on benefits work, I was asking about the ones that don't and have no drive to find a job either. The ones who live off benefits because it's easier than getting a job and providing for themselves/their family.

    Just because undergraduates often haven't worked, that doesn't mean that the governments decisions magically don't affect them. Undergraduates should have the right to vote (and 16 year olds - as long as they have the presence of mind to make a rational and informed decision) because they want someone in power who will not screw up the economy, so when they go out into the job market, they can get a job, and then start contributing to society/paying taxes/paying off their student loans etc for the rest of their working life.
    No, I completely got your point.

    Those that do scrounge like you described = shouldn't be allowed to vote either. And I don't see how the majority of students are any different to those who aren't able to fund themselves.

    Your point about "decisions magically don't affect them" is mad, where's the limit? Free school meals affect 5 year olds should they be allowed to vote?

    The majority of undergrads shouldn't be allowed to vote because they are not much different to those that do scrounge of the state. Student finance & tuition fees make this so. Those that have actually worked have contributed to creating wealth in the country, stimulating the economy and in the majority of cases paid taxes to the government to give to social causes. While the majority of uni grads will earn more than those who don't go to uni the point is they still haven't contributed anything to society. They are (at the time) net receivers.






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    (Original post by Simes)
    So, provided a child's parents can afford to set up a savings account or investment account such that the child pays taxes, then the child can vote.

    So, effectively, wealthy people will be more able to gain votes than poor people.

    Is that OK?
    Don't turn this into a class war.

    The few you are talking about is a very severe few. There would have to be a set amount of taxes you'd have to have paid and the child would have to be over a set age.

    I'd also like to reaffirm what I should have said previously (which I admit I should have) - you should be allowed to vote if you have worked (in a job) or paid taxes from a job.


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    (Original post by MrJAKEE)
    No, I completely got your point.

    Those that do scrounge like you described = shouldn't be allowed to vote either. And I don't see how the majority of students are any different to those who aren't able to fund themselves.

    Your point about "decisions magically don't affect them" is mad, where's the limit? Free school meals affect 5 year olds should they be allowed to vote?

    The majority of undergrads shouldn't be allowed to vote because they are not much different to those that do scrounge of the state. Student finance & tuition fees make this so. Those that have actually worked have contributed to creating wealth in the country, stimulating the economy and in the majority of cases paid taxes to the government to give to social causes. While the majority of uni grads will earn more than those who don't go to uni the point is they still haven't contributed anything to society. They are (at the time) net receivers.






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    The difference between 5 yr olds and undergraduates is responsibility. Undergraduates are responsible for themselves, and can vote accordingly. Parents are responsible for the 5 year old, and the parent will vote for who they feel will give them/their family the best opportunities.

    While they may be net receivers, they will have to pay their loans back - with interest. Therefore, they will be paying back to society, and over may years, and they will be paying taxes on top of this.
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    (Original post by limetang)
    What would that help, I know that at my school at least teachers absolutely had now qualms with what can only be described as indoctrinating their classes, and in many ways forcing political opinions on classes who were (in fairness) too naive to realise what was happening.
    If they want to vote at 16 they should be taught about it. It depends on the teachers then because my teachers at school were pretty fair & didn't even tell us their personal opinion on certain things.They should follow the guidelines and teach them what each party stands for and let them make up their minds.
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    sure, it's their country too
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    (Original post by MrJAKEE)
    Not necessarily a tenner. A fixed amount of taxes would have to be paid + (I should add) a fixed age (of maturity).


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    And if you paid the fixed amount in 1974 and nothing since you'd still have the vote?
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    only if we have politics education in schools for a generation before hand. and yes, it is possible. just like RE, apparently.
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    (Original post by MrJAKEE)
    I'd also like to reaffirm what I should have said previously (which I admit I should have) - you should be allowed to vote if you have worked (in a job) or paid taxes from a job.
    So if you just take dividends from your companies - rather than being an employee paying income tax, you wouldn't be able to vote...?
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    (Original post by Ellis2314)
    If sixteen year olds could vote, Scotland could be its own country right now. That's where the problems lie. Scotland is better of in the UK, but youths probably would of voted Yes because we are rebellious and angry.

    this is just my own opinion and is definitely not right. I can think of many good counter arguments to what I just wrote, which would blow my post out of the water...
    Like, you realise 16/17 year olds could vote in the referendum, and most voted no?
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    (Original post by aoxa)
    The difference between 5 yr olds and undergraduates is responsibility. Undergraduates are responsible for themselves, and can vote accordingly. Parents are responsible for the 5 year old, and the parent will vote for who they feel will give them/their family the best opportunities.

    While they may be net receivers, they will have to pay their loans back - with interest. Therefore, they will be paying back to society, and over may years, and they will be paying taxes on top of this.
    I don't know the stats but a lot of students actually pay less back with their loans in the long term (with inflation adjusted + the fact that many get it written off). The tax issue is different, once they have payed out money into the kitty then they should have a say on what goes on with it... It's a matter of principle IMO.

    Responsibility is also a large point.. Students are responsible for themselves.. Yet they have to take money from the public purse... Right. They aren't able to support themselves without the state and that IMO should be at the state's discretion, they aren't a proper part of society until they do what the majority of people do do.



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    (Original post by Quady)
    And if you paid the fixed amount in 1974 and nothing since you'd still have the vote?
    If you have created wealth in the country/stimulated the economy through work over a set period of time then yes.

    (Original post by Quady)
    So if you just take dividends from your companies - rather than being an employee paying income tax, you wouldn't be able to vote...?
    You know what I mean, stop being picky. I'm not going to draft my whole thoughts on tsr for god's sake.


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    I think embryo's should be given the right to vote. It is sooooo unfair that the people who make decisions on their behalf are not elected by them.
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    (Original post by MrJAKEE)
    If you have created wealth in the country/stimulated the economy through work over a set period of time then yes.



    You know what I mean, stop being picky. I'm not going to draft my whole thoughts on tsr for god's sake.


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    How long a set?

    It just sounds like it'd be a (overly) complicated set of rules...
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    (Original post by Quady)
    How long a set?

    It just sounds like it'd be a (overly) complicated set of rules...
    Perhaps 10 years? It's subjective and wouldn't be for me just to decide. It's the principle that truly matters .


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    (Original post by MrJAKEE)
    Perhaps 10 years? It's subjective and wouldn't be for me just to decide. It's the principle that truly matters .


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    So if you go to uni for three years, you'd be first eligible to vote when you're 31?
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    (Original post by MrJAKEE)
    You know what I mean
    I don't.

    So, any child with some money in the bank can vote, PhD students can't vote, someone with no qualifications but a part-time job stacking shelves aged 16 can, someone so disabled they can't work can't vote.

    It sounds very complicated.

    Can't we just have an age limit?
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    (Original post by Quady)
    So if you go to uni for three years, you'd be first eligible to vote when you're 31?
    If you haven't worked in the somewhere in the past 10 years you wouldn't be eligible to vote. In my ideal society for the elderly there'd be a point where you'd be expected to work and then every year after you could vote.


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    (Original post by limetang)
    This. I don't know about you though but the thing I've found looking back is that I did, said, and thought things that were incredibly naive and at the same time I was convinced that I was incredibly intelligent and incredibly wise (I mean the same is probably true for my stage of life now, I'll look back and wonder how I could have done the things I did), and in this I found I was by no means unique.
    Yep, basically. I'm almost 19 now, and it might not seem like much but in the the three years since I turned 16, I basically changed my views on most things, politically and otherwise. I am much more sceptical of my own self-perceived wisdom now, and believe that less is more when it comes to policy-making. So much carnage has been produced by well-intentioned, but naive tyrants who think they have the answer to everything.
 
 
 
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