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    (Original post by al_94)
    I don't know if they are allowed to join those armies either but the British Army has a history of killing Muslims for decades and they are actually at war with Islam. I know some western armies target civilians and also Britain stands with Israel who kill many innocent Palestinians.


    If your worried about a war on Islam I suggest you look at those who kill the most Muslims. The taliban, al qaeda, ISIS, the list goes on.

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    Late to the thread but wow, he actually sent that letter?

    That is outrageous, that's no different then sending letters to 'white British leaders' asking them how White British people can contribute to the UK, because some white-supremacy skinheads in France shot up an office and a shop.


    British Muslims don't have to prove **** to the government, this isn't the medieval ages where all citizens are required to offer statements of fielty to the ruling strong-man. If you;re British born than you are British, and you have the right to contribute or not contribute as every other British citizen.

    You certainly don;t have to apologise for your faith because of the misdeeds of a handful of foreign idiots in a foreign country that effects the UK none.


    Wow, just amazing. Just when you think this current government can't do/say anything more idiotic they manage to surprise you.
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    (Original post by Studentus-anonymous)
    Wow, just amazing. Just when you think this current government can't do/say anything more idiotic they manage to surprise you.
    It's a bit like TSR posters responding to a thread to complain about a letter they obviously haven't read, isn't it?
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    (Original post by Good bloke)
    It's a bit like TSR posters responding to a thread to complain about a letter they obviously haven't read, isn't it?
    I did read the letter, I know enough of the facts. I never read Mein Kampf but I'm confident in my opinion on Hitler and his politics/ideologies though so claiming I effectively have no grounds to comment is pointless.

    Asking an arbitrary group of British citizens to explain how they can contribute to the country and how they fit into it's values is frankly vulgar in this day and age. British citizenship is our birth-right and we don't need to explain it or ourselves. It is our right simple as that.

    As I said, how would you like receiving a letter asking you to explain your value to the country (beyond tax forms lol) and it's values, how you fit in? You're a British citizen (assuming), you don't have to prove yourself in that regard. Birth-right citizenship has never been means tested or reliant on you taking an exam.

    Sending letters to Muslims leaders even politely asking for you to explain themselves and their community's right to live in this country without harassment or explanation is just outright insulting. Especially since beyond the actions of a few nutbars most British Muslims do nothing else but live their lives like everyone else and contribute like everyone else.

    I'm sorry but it's just stupid.

    If it was meant to appeal to the Little Englander crew than maybe it worked but honestly it just seems like a botched attempt at reaching out in a way only the current Tory government could.

    if there is this notion that Muslims are some outside alien other in this country it's because people keep perpetuating it. You don't have to be a Muslim or even care much for Islam (I know I don't) to see that the British Muslim community are part of British society by virtue of living here and working here and contributing here. That letter was just dumb.
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    (Original post by Studentus-anonymous)
    Asking an arbitrary group of British citizens to explain how they can contribute to the country and how they fit into it's values is frankly vulgar in this day and age.
    That is not what the letter really said, in context. He asked Moslem leaders to make sure Moslems understand how Moslem values fit into British identity as a counter to radicalisation, as radical preachers are alienating young Moslems from British society.

    We must show our young people, who may be targeted, that extremists have nothing to offer them. We must show them that there are other ways to express disagreement: that their right to do so is dependent on the very freedoms that extremists seek to destroy. We must show them the multitude of statements of condemnation from British Muslims; show them these men of hate have no place in our mosques or any place of worship, and that they do not speak for Muslims in Britain or anywhere in the world.
    It seems eminently sensible to me.
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    Except that's precisely how it came across.

    Of course Mr Pickles (or Dave) could have came out to clarify themselves, rather than "if you have a problem with the letter there's something wrong with you".
    Especially because they must have known exactly how the wording of that letter (or it's misguided intention) would come across.
    And unfortunately this can't be put down to "them over-sensitive Muslims" this time either.

    If British Muslims have to explain themselves then it's basically saying we all have to explain and justify our birth-right British citizenship, which is unacceptable.
    Shall we have a system like Japan, where having ethnically Korean ancestors effectively makes you a non-citizen? Oh hey you're not Japanese because reasons.
    Oh hey your grandparents or great grandparents were foreign Muslims, and you're Muslims to, better ostracise you from society at large that's totally not going to actually feed extremism or anything.


    It was thoughtless, rude and just not the right thing to do.
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    The majority of comments on that article points to the contrary.
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    (Original post by Lady Comstock)
    The majority of comments on that article points to the contrary.
    And the comments matter because?

    Hitler had wide-spread support, it didn't make him, his comrades and his ideology any less wrong.

    But thankfully a comment section doesn't = national consensus.
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    (Original post by Studentus-anonymous)
    And the comments matter because?
    Because it says a lot when Guardianistas come out against an article such as that.

    Hitler had wide-spread support, it didn't make him, his comrades and his ideology any less wrong.
    Second Godwin's law that you have brought up in this thread.

    But thankfully a comment section doesn't = national consensus.
    And where is your evidence that the national consensus was against the letter?
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    (Original post by Queen Cersei)
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-30877447

    "David Cameron has defended a letter urging senior Muslims to explain how Islam "can be part of British identity", amid criticism from leaders."
    The letter was sent to 1,000 Muslim leaders after the attacks in Paris.The prime minister said Mr Pickles was "absolutely right" to write the letters urging leaders to do more to tackle extremism.

    Was this the right course of action to take after the Paris shootings?
    Definitely disagree. Gonna copy and paste what I wrote somewhere else, when commenting on Eric Pickles sending those leaflets out.

    Sounds like populist bull**** tbh

    The way I see it is, hate preachers/terrorists tend not to broadcast their views to people, and often if they do, they're banned from mosques, and the police are contacted

    It's ridiculous to think that Muslims all live in one big community, and all go to the same places, where absolutely every one knows exactly what every one is thinking. Are Muslims meant to be telepathic now??

    We have a good justice system in this country, and the police are paid to stamp this out. Of course, Muslims should report when they can, but if someones planning on bombing London, they're hardly going to say to every one "Hey Im going to detonate a bomb in London"

    One thing I do think however is that madrassahs and the like should teach more tolerance, and a sense of belonging to the UK as well as to religion, because afaik that isn't un-Islamic (not unless you're a Wahabi)

    And iirc, there were hate preachers at Finsbury Park mosque however at most other mosques, hate preachers are banned, and the police are contacted as well.

    Also, tbh, alienation does not help at all..... The more people feel alienated, the less likely they are to think that society is there for them, and are more likely to stick together
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    (Original post by Studentus-anonymous)
    Except that's precisely how it came across.
    Only to people who don't read it carefully. It was addressed to people who are used to reading religious scripture which they claim they have to interpret within context and carefully, and who can be expected to cope with simple English.

    Of course Mr Pickles (or Dave) could have came out to clarify themselves
    Well that goes for anyone who writes any letter, anywhere, anytime. There are always going to be careless people like yourself, or illiterates, who do not understand. That is not a reason for clarification for everyone else though.

    If British Muslims have to explain themselves
    If. They don't.
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    (Original post by The_Internet)
    The way I see it is, hate preachers/terrorists tend not to broadcast their views to people, and often if they do, they're banned from mosques,
    really youi so sure

    Take the Luton Islamic Center. If i can link you to a section of the website that says people need to be murdered for changing their faith would you reconsider this statement?
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    (Original post by The_Internet)
    Definitely disagree. Gonna copy and paste what I wrote somewhere else, when commenting on Eric Pickles sending those leaflets out.
    Spot on, Muslims are pissed off because the Mosques are empty of the type of people the letter was targeted at, they don't listen to their parents, never mind the scholars, just shows how out of touch the government is (weird how the type of "scholars" the letter was target at, are still allowed to preach outside the Mosques (because they've been kicked out by Muslims).

    Take the Charlie Hebdo fiasco, the attack had all the hallmarks of a gangland style massacre, a pathetic ‘spray ‘em up’ approach for perceived disrespect but no, all we're being told is that these people were Muslim theologians, and that's why they attacked. They were falling out of cubs nearly weeks before, but are still categorised as " devout Muslims" and a problem in Islam.

    Anyway, the situations going to get worse for another few decades, all the MI5 can do is try to catch people before they go on the rampage.

    You can't invade countrys multiple times, destabilise them, have millions killed and the reminder of colonialism conjured up in the minds of millions of Muslims and support wahabbism and then also expect no repercussions. Never mind replacing governments with paedophiles and drug lords, I genuinely can't get over how pathetic the last and current British government have been. Some of the most vile people in the highest positions of power.

    Give me 1 million pounds, and it's so easy to start a war. If there was peace in the Muslim world, the arms trade would go out of business.

    "It's all about Islam, it's all about Islam"

    **** you Douglass Murray. Pathetic government, and pathetic athiests ignoring their foreign policy and trying to convince themselves that none of what is happening in the world is because of war mongering *******s.
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    There is absolutely nothing wrong with this letter. If muslims take offence, it is because they know Pickles is right. A lot of Muslims do hold hard line extremist views, or at least agree with them; this definitely needs to be addressed. It is naive to ignore the fact that 99% of recent terrorist attacks in the western world was by Islamist extremists. You can't blame society for having negative stereotypes of Muslims; the leaders need to sort it out.


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    Youtube blocked this clip, I think it's because the clip would have demonstrated that so called "Islamic terrorists" are anything but "Islamic".

    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=f62_1419254405

    He's just declared that every Muslim is not a Muslim (9 seconds is very funny)
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    (Original post by 10001)
    There is absolutely nothing wrong with this letter. If muslims take offence, it is because they know Pickles is right. A lot of Muslims do hold hard line extremist views, or at least agree with them; this definitely needs to be addressed. It is naive to ignore the fact that 99% of recent terrorist attacks in the western world was by Islamist extremists. You can't blame society for having negative stereotypes of Muslims; the leaders need to sort it out.


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    This is shocking? Are the countries which have been invaded Christian, Buddhist etc. etc. or are they Muslim countries so duhhhhh
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    (Original post by Nikolai II)
    When Muslims begin to tolerate their prophet being mocked then what next? soon there will be nothing left of Islam
    I've got my fingers crossed
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    (Original post by PopaPork)
    really youi so sure

    Take the Luton Islamic Center. If i can link you to a section of the website that says people need to be murdered for changing their faith would you reconsider this statement?
    I did single out certain places ie: the Finsbury park mosque and how THEY should be singled out, and not making every single mosque in this country take collective responsibility for what happens at a few mosques.

    I mean if you believe this is OK, I assume you're OK with sending leaflets out to every single catholic church telling them not to fiddle with kiddies?
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    (Original post by interact)
    You can't invade countrys multiple times, destabilise them, have millions killed and the reminder of colonialism conjured up in the minds of millions of Muslims and support wahabbism and then also expect no repercussions.
    It is not clear to me that Moslem terrorism springing from IS, Taliban and AQAP activity is related to western countries' actions in the Moslem world. IS started in Syria; the Taliban came to prominence when the Soviets were influential in Afghanistan.

    These groups (especially IS) want to dominate, first of all, the Moslem world and punishing the west for its intervention in aiding Iraqis, Kurds or Syrians fighting against them, or commenting in news media on Islam, is a secondary operation which they leave to European natives.
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    This is hilariously tragic to watch.
    How castrated an emasculated do Englanders actually feel at this moment ?

    Your great leader, after years of constant terror alert to actual Britons, mass sectarian and racially motivated rape and paedophilia directed at your own women and children, brutal and savage murders targeting the families of Britain................ has sent the Muslim immigrants a strongly worded letter.

    At which point the Muslim communities told him where to stick it !

    God save England ! cause nothing short or a miracle is needed to help you lot out of this.
 
 
 
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