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    (Original post by poohat)
    No, that sort of "race is just a social construct" nonsense is commonly believed in the social 'sciences' but it has no scientific accuracy. The modern genetics literature tends to suggest that race has biological existence, can be identified at the genome level, and predicts geographical ancestry very well. It affects a lot more than just skin colour (obvious example)

    See:

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1196372/
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18559547
    http://genetics.plosjournals.org/per...l.pgen.0030236
    Fair enough. I just tend to worry whenever I see people use biology, evolutionary psychology etc in order to try and justify inequalities / their own POVs that certain groups of people are inferior or superior, and so on. For instance, race & IQ research, or "are women really worse at math" / "is being gay really out of your control" types of studies. They just don't sit well with me at all.

    This is what I mean, basically: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_racism
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    Maybe a little racist jokes in my mind, but never more than that.

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    (Original post by Anonymous8723)
    I'm White and care about my people, therefore I am racist by society's double standards.
    Tbf, if you don't see your group of people as inherently superior then you're not really a racist in structist sense if the word.
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    (Original post by молодой гений)
    Fair enough. I just tend to worry whenever I see people use biology, evolutionary psychology etc in order to try and justify inequalities / their own POVs that certain groups of people are inferior or superior, and so on. For instance, race & IQ research, or "are women really worse at math" / "is being gay really out of your control" types of studies. They just don't sit well with me at all.

    This is what I mean, basically: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_racism
    The fact that some studies make you uncomfortable does not mean they are incorrect. Science has a habit of making people uncomfortable by challenging their beliefs, thats kind of the point.
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    (Original post by молодой гений)
    Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't 'race' a concept massively pedalled by Nazi scientists in order to justify their own hardcore racial discrimination? i.e. there's no such thing as 'race', people just have different skin colours as they would different hair colours?

    Also, this kind of tendency towards biological determinism worries me. What kind of person would sit there and try and evaluate which race is 'superior'? Like, why would you even want to do that, honestly?
    The idea of race as a popular phenomenon came about pretty much towards the end of the 19th century. It is generally accepted that there are three main races in the world: Caucasian, Mongolian and Negroid.
    There is little doubt that this concept entered into society with the advancing of our understanding of genetics, and indeed the difference between the genetic makeup of a Scandinavian and an Indian is relatively obvious in any case.

    Around the same time, the idea of racialism developed which is basically drawing distinctions between certain races and judging which are superior to others. Some developed this theory purely for scientific and philosophical reasons, as Nietzsche's 'Superman' theory is a prime example.
    The issue then became of people exploiting this concept to justify the notion of race struggle, being basically a natural course of events, in which the stronger race will emerge superior. This concept of social Darwinism was what a lot of the Nazi ideology depended on.


    So in short, the concept of race is accepted and there is nothing wrong with such a concept. Racialism and social Darwinism on the other hand are effectively Naziism.
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    I have been referred to as racist by some leftists before, although I have a feeling they didn't know the definition of the term.

    I don't consider myself racist.
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    People tend to nowadays to despise certain ethnic groups, cultures and religions instead of despising people by their skin colour. I don't hate any race or ethnic group but I do dislike some cultures and religions due to their beliefs. That doesn't make me racist or does it?
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    (Original post by Raymat)
    People tend to nowadays to despise certain ethnic groups, cultures and religions instead of despising people by their skin colour. I don't hate any race or ethnic group but I do dislike some cultures and religions due to their beliefs. That doesn't make me racist or does it?
    Only to moral relativists.
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    (Original post by Andinet)
    I have been referred to as racist by some leftists before, although I have a feeling they didn't know the definition of the term.

    I don't consider myself racist.
    Were you one of those "but Islam isn't a race so I can be as rude about them as I want" people?
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    (Original post by poohat)
    The fact that some studies make you uncomfortable does not mean they are incorrect. Science has a habit of making people uncomfortable by challenging their beliefs, thats kind of the point.
    I'm not talking about the kind of studies that make climate change deniers uncomfortable. I'm talking about studies that people do to reassert their perception of a race (or gender's, even) superiority.
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    (Original post by молодой гений)
    People are born as a blank canvas, and then they are raised.
    No, they're not.

    See this book for a longer argument: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Blank_Slate

    Summary essay here: http://stevenpinker.com/files/pinker...ychologist.pdf
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    (Original post by молодой гений)
    I'm not talking about the kind of studies that make climate change deniers uncomfortable. I'm talking about studies that people do to reassert their perception of a race (or gender's, even) superiority.
    I dont see much difference between (largely right wing) climate change denial, and (largely left wing) denial of race, evolutionary psychology, etc - they are effectively the same thing, from opposite sides of the political spectrum. People feel uncomfortable when science challenges their beliefs, thats how its always worked.

    For example, two of the things that apparently makes you feel uncomfortable are IQ research, and people asking "is being gay really out of your control?". This is strange, given that the science shows pretty clearly that IQ is much, much more hereditable than homosexuality (0.8 compared to 0.35 (male homosexuality) and 0.2 (female), according to the best current estimates). However some people feel much happier believing that homosexuality is genetic than believing that intelligence is genetic, despite the science saying the opposite. This is ultimately a political belief.
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    (Original post by молодой гений)
    I'm not talking about the kind of studies that make climate change deniers uncomfortable. I'm talking about studies that people do to reassert their perception of a race (or gender's, even) superiority.
    What about studies showing that men are stronger than women?

    Or that men are better are at mental rotation than women? And girls have better verbal fluency than boys?

    Or that black americans have different body compositions than white americans?
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    (Original post by chazwomaq)
    What about studies showing that men are stronger than women?

    Or that men are better are at mental rotation than women? And girls have better verbal fluency than boys?

    Or that black americans have different body compositions than white americans?
    (Original post by poohat)
    I dont see much difference between (largely right wing) climate change denial, and (largely left wing) denial of race, evolutionary psychology, etc - they are effectively the same thing, from opposite sides of the political spectrum. People feel uncomfortable when science challenges their beliefs, thats how its always worked.

    For example, two of the things that apparently makes you feel uncomfortable are IQ research, and people asking "is being gay really out of your control?". This is strange, given that the science shows pretty clearly that IQ is much, much more hereditable than homosexuality (0.8 compared to 0.35 (male homosexuality) and 0.2 (female), according to the best current estimates). However some people feel much happier believing that homosexuality is genetic than believing that intelligence is genetic, despite the science saying the opposite. This is ultimately a political belief.
    Nothing wrong with either of those. However, seeing a person use those studies just puts me on edge, because the only context in which I've ever seen these studies cited is by, well, racists. i.e.: "no, but all black women are ugly, it's been scientifically proven" (real quote from someone I met this weekend). Or "but women shouldn't be pilots, they're more emotional than men - it's scientifically proven - and therefore can't be trusted with a plane". Etc.
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    (Original post by молодой гений)
    Were you one of those "but Islam isn't a race so I can be as rude about them as I want" people?
    No, have another guess.
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    (Original post by Andinet)
    No, have another guess.
    So what are these 'racist but not racist' views of yours?
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    nah im black and dont hate any race. i do prefer my own culture over others though
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    (Original post by prettyGirl101)
    nah im black and dont hate any race. i do prefer my own culture over others though
    Who wouldn't girl. Respect!

    All that Fake Hair, E News, Yam, Self Pity and don't forget all the Beyonce tracks every day.
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    (Original post by bubzeh)
    who wouldn't girl. Respect!

    All that fake hair, e news, yam, self pity and don't forget all the beyonce tracks every day.
    im east african
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    me? racist?!
    the only race *I* hate is the one I have to run!
 
 
 
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