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    (Original post by Ekemini)
    I don't think I will really have any solid idea about it. I researched it and there were many definitions. There are many things on the internet about feminism. The one you can ask me to research is the definition. Apart from that, its different everywhere
    Well, depending on what type of feminism a person identifies themselves as then you will get a different response to what they see feminism as.

    There are radical feminists, which are usually seen as "feminazis" and are the extremists of feminism. I'm sure people aren't stupid enough to not know that these extremists are the ones which get the majority of the media publicity which in turn soils feminism itself and what it truly stands for.

    There are also black feminists, marxist/socialist feminists, liberal feminists, cultural feminists etc. I personally identify as a liberal feminist which focuses on women gaining equality in all aspects through their own actions and choices. The majority of feminists (including me) are NOT man hating crazy women. We just want to be more equal to men and prove that we are just as capable as them.

    I believe every woman should be a feminist - you don't have to go around shouting "equality for all!" but you should want to have the right to vote, to be seen as a strong and independent person capable of anything they want to achieve in, to have equal pay and work rights, to not have to worry about sexual harassment or rape, to have the right to education (this isn't a problem anymore in the Western world but it is still a big problem in places like Africa and in some places in the Middle East), to have affordable health care, affordable childcare, wanting to stop domestic violence against women and the ability to do what you want with your body which includes access to birth control and abortions. Don't you want this? This is what feminists fight for.
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    (Original post by Ice Dragon)

    I believe every woman should be a feminist - you don't have to go around shouting "equality for all!" but you should want to have the right to vote, to be seen as a strong and independent person capable of anything they want to achieve in, to have equal pay and work rights, to not have to worry about sexual harassment or rape, to have the right to education (this isn't a problem anymore in the Western world but it is still a big problem in places like Africa and in some places in the Middle East), to have affordable health care, affordable childcare, wanting to stop domestic violence against women and the ability to do what you want with your body which includes access to birth control and abortions. Don't you want this? This is what feminists fight for.
    Don't you already have that?
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    (Original post by poohat)
    The reason why men and women are "not equal" is because women are massively advantaged in almost every aspect of society. Its easy to cherry pick things like the number of CEOs, but you are ignoring deeper issues like:

    a) almost all suicides are committed by men (suicide is the leading cause of death for males between the age of 18-35)

    b) almost all the prison population are men

    c) almost all homeless people are men

    d) men make up the vast majority of people working full time minimum wage jobs

    e) men are substantially less likely to go to university than women

    f) women earn more than men when they are committed to working full-time (women outran men during their 20s, they start to earn less once they voluntarily cut their hours after children. See http://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin...t-earn-men-so/ [UK figures are identical])

    g) women get the option of dropping out of the work force to raise children, men pretty much have to work full time forever no matter how crappy their job is (see point d) above)

    h) the entire tax system is essentially a massive transfer of wealth from men to women, I think the most recent figures are that 72% of all benefit payments get spent on women


    And thats before you even get into even more serious issues like the gross unfairness of family law courts and divorce, where women typically get primary custody of children, and the right to stay in the family home indefinitely (it usually works out as the woman getting around 80% of total assets, regardless of who is at fault for the relationship dissolving)

    Its absolutely ridiculous to suggest that women are disadvantaged in any way -- it is men who are severely discriminated against in pretty much all aspects of modern life. Modern feminism is basically just whiny upper middle class women complaining that they can't drop out of work for 5 years after having children and still make it to CEO. They do this while ignoring the fact that men make up pretty much all the bottom layer of society (prisoners, homeless people, suicides, etc) and also do pretty much all the horrible jobs in society (minimum wage work, garbage collection, physical labour, etc are all basically 100% male). I don't hear many feminists complaining about their underrepresentatoin in the garbage collection industry

    And of course, the reason why women don't do these sort of bad jobs (garbage collection, etc) is because they don't have to - the minute they have a child they can just drop out of work entirely and be supported by men for the rest of their lives, either by their partners, or through the benefit system. Why work a crappy job when you can just be a single mum claiming housing benefit and child tax credit all your life, which is worth far more than the minimum wage? Men do not have this option, despite being the ones who are actually paying for it.
    You'll find it interesting then that according to the World Economic Forum it's women that are at a disadvantage and not men "who are severely discriminated against in pretty much all aspects of modern life" as you so nicely put it?

    They rank the United Kingdom at number 26.

    What I found particularly interesting about your response though (sexism aside) was the underlining assumption that all women just wanted to have a child and be looked after by the system - that they have no interest in their own professional achievements because they can just flout the system as it so obviously benefits them.

    I don't know how many women you know between 22 and 35 but having worked with a large number, this assumption couldn't be further from the truth.

    We should in all truth implement a fairer maternity/paternity system whereby the mother and the father have to take equal leave to look after their newborn child, whilst receiving equal funding for doing so. That way, you'd firstly eliminate thoughts such as yours and secondly you'd stop companies hiring men over women because they're not worried about maternity cover.
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    (Original post by FrazerLloyd)
    You'll find it interesting then that according to the World Economic Forum it's women that are at a disadvantage and not men "who are severely discriminated against in pretty much all aspects of modern life" as you so nicely put it?

    They rank the United Kingdom at number 26.
    Look at the actual criteria they use to construct the ranking - none of the areas in which men are discriminated against (such as the ones above) are included. This is because its an ideologically-driven measure. When you are making a ranking like this, its always possible to come up with whatever ranking you want, by being selective about what measurements you put in. Does the WEF ranking include things like the proportion of each gender in prison, life expectancy, etc? No .If they were, the outcome would be quite different.

    What I found particularly interesting about your response though (sexism aside) was the underlining assumption that all women just wanted to have a child and be looked after by the system - that they have no interest in their own professional achievements because they can just flout the system as it so obviously benefits them.
    Well first of all it isnt an 'assumption', its the truth. Studies consistently find that most women want to either quit their jobs or work part-time after having children. For example: http://www.forbes.com/sites/meghanca...working-women/

    according to our survey, 84% of working women told ForbesWoman and TheBump that staying home to raise children is a financial luxury they aspire to.

    What’s more, more than one in three resent their partner for not earning enough to make that dream a reality.
    This is actually a serious problem in medicine at the moment, because women outnumber men on medical degrees (is this sexism?) so society is training up a lot of women doctors, who end up reducing their work hours after having children, leading to a shortage of doctors.

    But anyway, you are missing the point - the issue is that women get the choice of whether to work or not. If they choose to focus on their career, they earn more than men. If they choose not to work, they are supported by the government (largely by the tax paid by working men) and earn more in welfare than men get in minimum wage jobs. Its literally the best of both worlds. Men do not get this choice - they cannot just decide to pack in their low paying jobs and stay at home forever. Thats the issue here.

    However you want to slice, women have it much better in the workplace than men do at the moment.
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    (Original post by poohat)
    Look at the actual criteria they use to construct the ranking - none of the areas in which men are discriminated against (such as the ones above) are included. This is because its an ideologically-driven measure. When you are making a ranking like this, its always possible to come up with whatever ranking you want, by being selective about what measurements you put in. Does the WEF ranking include things like the proportion of each gender in prison, life expectancy, etc? No .If they were, the outcome would be quite different.
    It takes into consideration life expectancy. It also takes into consideration another one of your points about labour force and equivalent wages for similar work.

    Also, you've made your point about prison twice now. Is it not possible for men to commit more crime than women? For example, how many men are in court over rape allegations, compared to women? A bigger bucket of worms granted, but even without looking it is obvious that there will be more men in prison for rape due to the nature of the crime.

    (Original post by poohat)
    Well first of all it isnt an 'assumption', its the truth. Studies consistently find that most women want to either quit their jobs or work part-time after having children. For example: http://www.forbes.com/sites/meghanca...working-women/
    Sorry, when you rubbish my source for making up results don't then quote Forbes. Steve Forbes is a Republican.

    (Original post by poohat)
    This is actually a serious problem in medicine at the moment, because women outnumber men on medical degrees (is this sexism?) so society is training up a lot of women doctors, who end up reducing their work hours after having children, leading to a shortage of doctors.

    But anyway, you are missing the point - the issue is that women get the choice of whether to work or not. If they choose to focus on their career, they earn more than men. If they choose not to work, they are supported by the government (largely by the tax paid by working men) and earn more in welfare than men get in minimum wage jobs. Its literally the best of both worlds. Men do not get this choice - they cannot just decide to pack in their low paying jobs and stay at home forever. Thats the issue here.

    However you want to slice, women have it much better in the workplace than men do at the moment.
    Firstly, women have a right to be mothers. As much as they have a right to a career. As I said, you could split maternity/paternity in order to ensure that women can have both. Men don't get the choice because they can't have children but, again as said, you could make that equal by enforcing maternity and paternity cover.

    And secondly, serious question, what is your background? WOMEN WANT TO WORK. Ask them on here and see what they say. The vast majority want to have the choice too and that's fine. The same way it's fine if a man wants to take a lower paid job and spend more time with his kids. Stop painting women out to be some sort of lazy group of people, looking for a quick win or the easiest route.
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    Feminism is a belief in equality, anything else is not feminism. In my opinion the argument is completely valid, everyone should be equal and the feminist movement represents that in a society that very much oppresses women. Of course there are sub groups that exist that preach something which may seen to be extreme, and that reflects badly on the F movement in the media but is no way related to what they stand for. 'Menists' is a reactionary concept and only serves to prove that many males are oppressing women, can't they see the clear inequality? A group of men have decided because the female race as gained media coverage for a positive change that they feel underrepresented, which is a completely ignorant and false belief. They feel threatened. Feminism is a force for good. Enlighten yourself.

    Thanks. A 17 year old boy.

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    (Original post by jaffacakerr)
    Feminism is a belief in equality, anything else is not feminism. In my opinion the argument is completely valid, everyone should be equal and the feminist movement represents that in a society that very much oppresses women. Of course there are sub groups that exist that preach something which may seen to be extreme, and that reflects badly on the F movement in the media but is no way related to what they stand for. 'Menists' is a reactionary concept and only serves to prove that many males are oppressing women, can't they see the clear inequality? A group of men have decided because the female race as gained media coverage for a positive change that they feel underrepresented, which is a completely ignorant and false belief. They feel threatened. Feminism is a force for good. Enlighten yourself.

    Thanks. A 17 year old boy.

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    What is equality?

    Equality before the Law? or equality of outcome?
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    (Original post by Ekemini)
    You see. That is the problem. Feminism promotes equality. Let women have choices. Choices to vote etc. If a woman chooses to serve her man, what EXACTLY is wrong with that. She is happy and does not fell oppressed. What EXACTLY is wrong with that
    Do you not see any problem with an upbringing that encourages people to see themselves as subservient to others?
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    (Original post by studentro)
    Do you not see any problem with an upbringing that encourages people to see themselves as subservient to others?
    Who said she was brought up like that? Some women like to be submissive to their husbands in the bedroom as well as outside it. And the marriage is happy. The woman is comfortable with it because its HER choice and no one imposed it on her
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    (Original post by poohat)
    The reason why men and women are "not equal" is because women are massively advantaged in almost every aspect of society. Its easy to cherry pick things like the number of CEOs, but you are ignoring deeper issues like:

    a) almost all suicides are committed by men (suicide is the leading cause of death for males between the age of 18-35)

    b) almost all the prison population are men

    c) almost all homeless people are men

    d) men make up the vast majority of people working full time minimum wage jobs

    e) men are substantially less likely to go to university than women

    f) women earn more than men when they are committed to working full-time (women outran men during their 20s, they start to earn less once they voluntarily cut their hours after children. See http://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin...t-earn-men-so/ [UK figures are identical])

    g) women get the option of dropping out of the work force to raise children, men pretty much have to work full time forever no matter how crappy their job is (see point d) above)

    h) the entire tax system is essentially a massive transfer of wealth from men to women, I think the most recent figures are that 72% of all benefit payments get spent on women


    And thats before you even get into even more serious issues like the gross unfairness of family law courts and divorce, where women typically get primary custody of children, and the right to stay in the family home indefinitely (it usually works out as the woman getting around 80% of total assets, regardless of who is at fault for the relationship dissolving)

    Its absolutely ridiculous to suggest that women are disadvantaged in any way -- it is men who are severely discriminated against in pretty much all aspects of modern life. Modern feminism is basically just whiny upper middle class women complaining that they can't drop out of work for 5 years after having children and still make it to CEO. They do this while ignoring the fact that men make up pretty much all the bottom layer of society (prisoners, homeless people, suicides, etc) and also do pretty much all the horrible jobs in society (minimum wage work, garbage collection, physical labour, etc are all basically 100% male). I don't hear many feminists complaining about their underrepresentatoin in the garbage collection industry

    And of course, the reason why women don't do these sort of bad jobs (garbage collection, etc) is because they don't have to - the minute they have a child they can just drop out of work entirely and be supported by men for the rest of their lives, either by their partners, or through the benefit system. Why work a crappy job when you can just be a single mum claiming housing benefit and child tax credit all your life, which is worth far more than the minimum wage? Men do not have this option, despite being the ones who are actually paying for it.
    All true, and these facts are clearly inconsistent with a society which is set up to oppress women, which is the basis from which all feminist ideology rests on.
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    In a rush, so many pics.
    (Original post by SnooFnoo)
    Feminism isn't about supremacy. It's about equality. And did I just seriously read a woman saying she "serves her man"??? she shouldn't be allowed to get out of bed In the morning let alone post comments in the Internet. Silly girl.
    Serve her man, just like Kaley Cuoco's. Maybe she needed to hold a "I don't need feminism" sign!
    (Original post by Lwin)
    What Emma Watson is describing and that you agree with is feminism. It's equality.
    ... Ignore or debate people who you think are going too far but please please don't turn away from the movement that got women the vote, the equal pay act (as widely avoided as it is), abortion rights, etc. There's still a lot to be done in the UK and globally for women's rights. For this we need feminism. The fracturing of this movement makes me want to cry sometimes i swear.

    Don't cry, look at the alternatives there are a few. The 'feminism' that got the vote & men the White Feather, etc. is not the same mentality as 2015. Or let these feminists speak for you .


    (Original post by FrazerLloyd)
    It takes into consideration life expectancy. It also takes into consideration another one of your points about labour force and equivalent wages for similar work.
    Life Expectancy references from WHO (2012) & the UN (2010) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ife_expectancy
    Can you find the country(ies) where men live longer than women?
    How about suicide? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...y_suicide_rate
    There is nothing about murders, so let's look at UK deaths by age & sex http://mra-uk.co.uk/?p=343. Upto 0-85 years male die more than women, with factors as Homicide, Suicide, Post-Divorce Deaths, Sudden Infant Death, Cancers, War Deaths & Work-Related Deaths. Backed up with stats.
    (Original post by jaffacakerr)
    Feminism is a belief in equality, anything else is not feminism. In my opinion the argument is completely valid, everyone should be equal and the feminist movement represents that in a society that very much oppresses women. Of course there are sub groups that exist that preach something which may seen to be extreme, and that reflects badly on the F movement in the media but is no way related to what they stand for. 'Menists' is a reactionary concept and only serves to prove that many males are oppressing women, can't they see the clear inequality? A group of men have decided because the female race as gained media coverage for a positive change that they feel underrepresented, which is a completely ignorant and false belief. They feel threatened. Feminism is a force for good. Enlighten yourself.

    Thanks. A 17 year old boy.
    Hi there. .
    I used to think like you, what opened my eyes were ManWomanMyth videos. Very popular start is Misandry - Men Don't Exist. Men's Rights tended to begin with Father's Rights http://unknownmisandry.blogspot.co.u...anization.html
    Feminism's tactics for power are still the same as todays as 100 years http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Fr...nism/Chapter_7.
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    (Original post by Ekemini)
    I don't think I will really have any solid idea about it. I researched it and there were many definitions. There are many things on the internet about feminism. The one you can ask me to research is the definition. Apart from that, its different everywhere
    I wrote 2 posts that may help your understanding
    http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/show...3108875&page=3
    It looks like my 2nd post #42 is made for someone wishing to learn.

    Technology has emancipated women more than feminism (Pill, safe abortion, household chores of cooking/washing, safe work environment). That is not to say that women's rights was not needed then & still is - but not an ideology that disadvantages the other sex, that provide >70% of Govt. revenue yet the majority is spent on females.

    Some women join Feminism to man hate, surely same for Men's Movement.

    (Original post by al_94)
    Feminism is a flawed ideology and it only sounds good when you are brainwashed
    Sounds good when you don't want to wake up & realise/face the truth. It's in men's biology to protect & provide for women & children, males are on average physically better which was needed for survival 100s of years ago. It's women's biology to want that, even in WAM.
    Feminism is gynocentricism out of control. I am against gynocentric that is extreme in disadvantaging boys/men. Do u understand how wo/men love differently? YouTube it. I am not there for that (yet?) & I may never be.

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    (Original post by jaffacakerr)
    Feminism is a belief in equality, anything else is not feminism. In my opinion the argument is completely valid, everyone should be equal and the feminist movement represents that in a society that very much oppresses women. Of course there are sub groups that exist that preach something which may seen to be extreme, and that reflects badly on the F movement in the media but is no way related to what they stand for. 'Menists' is a reactionary concept and only serves to prove that many males are oppressing women, can't they see the clear inequality? A group of men have decided because the female race as gained media coverage for a positive change that they feel underrepresented, which is a completely ignorant and false belief. They feel threatened. Feminism is a force for good. Enlighten yourself.

    Thanks. A 17 year old boy.

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    What feminism is in principle is not quite the same as it presents itself in society, sadly. There are way too many biases, misinformation campaigns and double standards.

    Some examples to show my point:

    Feminists and feminist campaigns focus too heavily on perceiving women as victims and fail to view society from a more gender-neutral perspective. For example, they'll take a problem that effects both women and men and typically portray it as a "women's issue." Domestic violence, for instance, actually affects men and women at similar rates, but it is almost always sold to us by feminists as a "women's issue." Male students are statistically more likely to be victims of violent crime on college campuses, but all we hear about is how unsafe it is to be a woman in these places. Then there's the problem of misrepresented, exaggerated, or falsified statistics. For example, it is commonly touted by feminist groups that '1 in 5' women will be raped at university. This is a misrepresentation of the 2007 study it came from, however (as it concerned sexual assault in a small cohort of survey respondents at a single US university, and used very broad definitions). A more comprehensive and reliable survey with a much greater sample size conducted for the US Department of Justice found the number to be less than 1 in 50 in comparison. Another misleading factoid is the wage gap. While the mean full time female salary is 78% of the mean male salary, the median salary for unmarried women is 97% (as the difference in earnings is mostly a result of marriage/childbirth, not 'glass ceilings' and discrimination). Also, for under-thirties and all part-time employees, it's >100% of the male wage in each respective category.

    We don't often hear any of these facts from feminists, either because they simply don't know, or because it would undermine their portrayal of western women as being 'oppressed' by society.

    Don't even get me started on the sexual assault, rape, and 'offensive speech' double standards.
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    (Original post by All_TheCyanide)
    Also, you do realise that feminism often helps men too, like helping male rape victims and fighting for paternal rights?
    I'd like to see what percentage of feminists have done this, lmfao :rofl:
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    (Original post by Dandaman1)
    What feminism is in principle is not quite the same as it presents itself in society, sadly. There are way too many biases, misinformation campaigns and double standards.

    Some examples to show my point:

    Feminists and feminist campaigns focus too heavily on perceiving women as victims and fail to view society from a more gender-neutral perspective. For example, they'll take a problem that effects both women and men and typically portray it as a "women's issue." Domestic violence, for instance, actually affects men and women at similar rates, but it is almost always sold to us by feminists as a "women's issue." Male students are statistically more likely to be victims of violent crime on college campuses, but all we hear about is how unsafe it is to be a woman in these places. Then there's the problem of misrepresented, exaggerated, or falsified statistics. For example, it is commonly touted by feminist groups that '1 in 5' women will be raped at university. This is a misrepresentation of the 2007 study it came from, however (as it concerned sexual assault in a small cohort of survey respondents at a single US university, and used very broad definitions). A more comprehensive and reliable survey with a much greater sample size conducted for the US Department of Justice found the number to be less than 1 in 50 in comparison. Another misleading factoid is the wage gap. While the mean full time female salary is 78% of the mean male salary, the median salary for unmarried women is 97% (as the difference in earnings is mostly a result of marriage/childbirth, not 'glass ceilings' and discrimination). Also, for under-thirties and all part-time employees, it's >100% of the male wage in each respective category.

    We don't often hear any of these facts from feminists, either because they simply don't know, or because it would undermine their portrayal of western women as being 'oppressed' by society.

    Don't even get me started on the sexual assault, rape, and 'offensive speech' double standards.
    THANK YOU! That is exactly how I see feminism these days. It may have given me the right to vote but after that.....
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    (Original post by Castiel.)
    Feminism in the past was a valid movement in my opinion. But now, we are all equal in the eyes of the law. It is now a rather sexist movement that is now ripe for exploitation. The western society now has no need for feminism. However, one can apply the idea in societies where women are not equal. Like the middle east.

    Feminism would actually have a credible purpose there.
    We may be ''equal'' in the eyes of the law but the judgements passed these days don't support that. Why is it that when a male teacher sleeps with a student he is sent to jail but a good looking female teacher who sleeps with a student walks way without any repercussions?
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    No this dong has done worse things to young femoids
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