Should hunting be allowed? Watch

guitargirl03
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#81
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#81
(Original post by The_Bear)
What are the animals innocent of exactly? Crimes against humanity?

I'm guessing that you have never lived with animals although you say you live in the countryside? Lets bring it back to fox hunting, surely this places you in a massive moral dilemma, on the one hand you let the fox live but he then kills two hundred chickens. Now, we are directly responsible for those chickens deaths because we could have killed the old/injured fox in a more humane way than it starving to death.

What do you do? Fox lives chickens die, fox dies chickens live.

This applies to all animals that kill other animals, so basically your belief is fundamentally a contradiction. Death happens in the wild, it isnt really a big deal at all. Could you kill an animal if you were starving or would you rather die?
What I have a problem with is the way animals are killed in the meat industry. The way they're transported in cramped conditions.

Animals in the wild treat their prey differently. They don't pack them off into lorries just to be sold for a profit.

And just because I live in the countryside it doesn't mean that I'm surrounded by badgers and woodpeckers all the time :rolleyes:
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guitargirl03
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#82
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#82
(Original post by a fire in the sky)
aww...neg rep from guitargirl - that brings back memories...


...its still worth nothing too.
I don't believe I've ever given you neg rep... Well if I have it's evened it up...

And I don't do it for the points it takes away, I do it to voice my disagreement, which, unless I'm mistaken, I'm allowed to do...
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bikerx23
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#83
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#83
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9h1e2zyjkWQ

Yes, lovely treatment in the Natural world...Cats too - they dont torment their prey at all...
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guitargirl03
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#84
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#84
(Original post by a fire in the sky)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9h1e2zyjkWQ

Yes, lovely treatment in the Natural world...Cats too - they dont torment their prey at all...
I'm not saying that at all. I haven't said that I don't agree with the killing of animals by other animals. They do it for food. Whereas humans are omnivores, therefore they can survive without meat, yet many animals in the wild cannot.
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bikerx23
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#85
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#85
for a start, your statement is contradictory, both claiming you didn't performing such an act, then justifying.

Secondly: http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/8136/liarhp2.png

You must have a very short memory span if you "dont believe you've ever given me neg rep"
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bikerx23
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#86
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#86
(Original post by guitargirl03)
What I have a problem with is the way animals are killed in the meat industry. The way they're transported in cramped conditions.

Animals in the wild treat their prey differently. They don't pack them off into lorries just to be sold for a profit.
Watch the video - what is worse - containerised transport or the slow, drawn out torture of a baby seal pup?
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The_Bear
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#87
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#87
Err animals in the meat industry are killed far more humanely than those in the wild (and "profit" for humans means that farmer is going to FEED himself and his children that week, just like the animal is going to FEED itself and its children, do you understand this point? It seems to me like you have forgotten that humans are actually animals) but anyway, you think animal on animal kills are ok yet hound on fox kills are not ok?

Because now foxes are killed with shotguns for the paupers or with sniper rifles for the rich which are both quite humane methods of hunting but completely unfair on the fox.

Animals are transported in cramped conditions to minimise costs, whilst this isnt nice it is how they have lived their entire lives, cramped up in sheds to minimise costs thus maintaining ties with supermarkets. You never denied visiting supermarkets so I can assume that you like to increase the profits of the big chains so they have even more influence to lower the price of meat. The first thing I did when I got to uni in bath was find a good butcher who sourced local meat that lived freely, it only cost about 50p per meal more. I dont hate supermarkets, some people cant afford that 50p but you understand when they claim "animal rights" I get quite angry?

edit: That is a really beautiful video, Killer whales are amazing
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bikerx23
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#88
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#88
(Original post by The_Bear)
Because now foxes are killed with shotguns for the paupers or with sniper rifles for the rich which are both quite humane methods of hunting but completely unfair on the fox.
They are completely inhumane methods of hunting foxes, since the majority of shots on result in wounding the fox, hence allowing it to drag its bleeding body away to its foxhole and bleed to death - hardly quick and humane.
Also, this is a detrimental process to the fox population, since it does not select based on the strength of the fox, merely its spacial positioning, whereas hunting with dogs only kills the old or weak foxes, hence cultures a healthy fox population, as would be established in a natural environment.
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The_Bear
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#89
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#89
Yeah I made that point earlier. I have never seen a fox run away from a gun kill attempt, the shotgun is only used at close range and it is instantaneous.

I cant speak for every shot, I've only seen crack shooters do it.
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bikerx23
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#90
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#90
(Original post by The_Bear)
Yeah I made that point earlier. I have never seen a fox run away from a gun kill attempt, the shotgun is only used at close range and it is instantaneous.

I cant speak for every shot, I've only seen crack shooters do it.
Well...where I live its all done by farmers, and they're a crap shot...so I've seen it happen quite a lot.

According to stats (posted by someone else on here aaaaages ago) its on average around 70% of the foxes hit aren't killed.etc.
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silverbolt
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#91
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#91
(Original post by The_Bear)
Or shoot yourself.

Making sure the gun wasnt made with a leather holder...
go to the woods get lost and starve herself that way she would provide the foxes with carrion which foxes eat And the she will feel better and all holy like.

(Original post by guitargirl03)
Maybe you should read more into veganism before you criticise it.

I try to elimit the amount of electricity I use, and I don't drive a car, and I try to walk everywhere.

Veganism is the PREVENTION of the INNOCENT killing of animals. It is not about the environment, although many vegans are environmentalists, as that's a different kettle of fish altogether.
so because we dont have to that means we shouldnt. Chimps dont have to either on that note but they still do maybe you should preach to them. Good luck getting ripped apart btw. Humans are Hunters fact, we were bashing mammoths on the head long before we tilled the earth.
Your argument is flawed with typical vegan pomousness. I wont eat meat because its wrong. Exactly what is wrong to it. I dont agree with abject torturing of animals but that doesnt mean i would stop a cat torturing a mouse. We have been killing animals for aas long as we have existed and frankly a medium rare steak with pepporcorn sauce and chips goes down well nice on a friday evening. And i dont intend to stop due to some daft attempt to make yourself appear more civilised.
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L i b
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#92
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#92
(Original post by a fire in the sky)
Well...where I live its all done by farmers, and they're a crap shot...so I've seen it happen quite a lot.

According to stats (posted by someone else on here aaaaages ago) its on average around 70% of the foxes hit aren't killed.etc.
Precisely my experience. They're probably half-cut and slightly inbred too... or maybe that's just Scottish farmers.
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bikerx23
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#93
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#93
(Original post by Lib North)
Precisely my experience. They're probably half-cut and slightly inbred too... or maybe that's just Scottish farmers.
My neighbour who is former master of the Glamorgan hunt is a fine gentleman actually (but that is in contrast to the majority of welsh farmers - considering the analogy he used to describe welsh farming families was that each family is a field of sheep and occasionally one jumps the hedge, your experience is likely to be reflected here).
Also, he's over 80, so he's not the best of shots any more...
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