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Conservative government... good or bad?

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Original post by Jammy Duel
Could you please stop talking bolocks

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Provide a substantial argument against the things that I'm saying and I'll maybe consider it.
Original post by TimmonaPortella
Funny watching that to realise that Simon Hughes has only just left Parliament. Some of them really do stick around for a long time.


really funny
Reply 82
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Quady
20
Original post by LordStark
It all depends on where the austerity is put. £12bn from welfare with virtually no efforts to protect the most vulnerable in society is worse than anything Labour would have brought to the table, I'm sure. Also - don't be so quick to assume I would prefer Labour.

Minimum wage has risen with inflation, yeah, yet it's still not enough for someone to live on without having to choose between heating and eating in many areas of the country.


Where were Labour to have made their cuts then?

Really? Could you let me know an example budget that draws you to that conclusion?
Original post by Quady
Where were Labour to have made their cuts then?

Really? Could you let me know an example budget that draws you to that conclusion?

They certainly weren't planning such severe cuts to welfare budgets without other measures to help people. I can't say the specifics, I will concede.

I can tell you that my mum is earning the minimum wage and often has to choose between feeding herself and feeding my sister, that being if she plans on paying for the heating in winter. This is the reality for many people up and down the country.

Just because people in their cushy well-paid jobs are told by the media that minimum wage earners and benefits claimants are somehow themselves at fault does not make reality any different.
Original post by LordStark
Provide a substantial argument against the things that I'm saying and I'll maybe consider it.


Well, you claim in many parts of the country on minimum wage is heating or food, even in London this is a farcical comment to make, assuming we're taking about full time work.

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Reply 85
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Original post by LordStark
They certainly weren't planning such severe cuts to welfare budgets without other measures to help people. I can't say the specifics, I will concede.

I can tell you that my mum is earning the minimum wage and often has to choose between feeding herself and feeding my sister, that being if she plans on paying for the heating in winter. This is the reality for many people up and down the country.

Just because people in their cushy well-paid jobs are told by the media that minimum wage earners and benefits claimants are somehow themselves at fault does not make reality any different.


Well I'm not sure where you plucked £12nb from - thats a figure I recognise for the next five years, but don't remember anyone mentioning for the period just gone.

So what budget is she running?
Naturally she gets tax credits and child allowance so is hardly going to be just on the minimum wage.
Original post by Jammy Duel
Well, you claim in many parts of the country on minimum wage is heating or food, even in London this is a farcical comment to make, assuming we're taking about full time work.

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Full-time work is quite difficult to get. And even if you have it, if you're on minimum wage, it is a lot more difficult than you seem to realise, especially if you have dependants.
Original post by LordStark
Full-time work is quite difficult to get. And even if you have it, if you're on minimum wage, it is a lot more difficult than you seem to realise, especially if you have dependants.


You haven't yet substantiated your point, just said "aww, you're wrong".

Ruin me through the figures so I can amend them as a sensible human being too doesn't believe they are owed everything they want.

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Original post by Quady
Well I'm not sure where you plucked £12nb from - thats a figure I recognise for the next five years, but don't remember anyone mentioning for the period just gone.

So what budget is she running?
Naturally she gets tax credits and child allowance so is hardly going to be just on the minimum wage.

I'm not sure what you mean by the bit in bold. I'm talking about the cuts they're going to make in the next 5 years.

She does get tax credits and child allowance (for now, at least), but it's still not enough. If she had to support me herself as well, then things would be a lot worse.
Reply 89
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Quady
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Original post by LordStark
I'm not sure what you mean by the bit in bold. I'm talking about the cuts they're going to make in the next 5 years.

She does get tax credits and child allowance (for now, at least), but it's still not enough. If she had to support me herself as well, then things would be a lot worse.


But you're argument was about the 'fall in real wages', and you said austerity was to blame. I asked what Labour would have done differently, and now you want to talk about future cuts instead... thats probably why you're confused, you've turned your argument from the past to the future.

So, I'll ask again, what does the household budget look like?
Original post by LordStark
Full-time work is quite difficult to get. And even if you have it, if you're on minimum wage, it is a lot more difficult than you seem to realise, especially if you have dependants.



Unfortunately a lot of people up and down this country cannot seem to understand this, they'll somehow think you are at fault and are clearly squandering your money without ever knowing how it feels to live on a pittance. The people that will try to contradict your real life situation, are the very same people who worry whether to get the new iphone or wait, or are struggling to think of where to go on holiday.

The ability to empathise is fast disappearing in this country
Original post by Quady
But you're argument was about the 'fall in real wages', and you said austerity was to blame. I asked what Labour would have done differently, and now you want to talk about future cuts instead... thats probably why you're confused, you've turned your argument from the past to the future.

So, I'll ask again, what does the household budget look like?


Labour would have introduced £8 minimum wage, and made it mandtory that businesses offer a full time contract after 12 weeks on zero hours.
Reply 92
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Quady
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Original post by bobbyismyname
Labour would have introduced £8 minimum wage, and made it mandtory that businesses offer a full time contract after 12 weeks on zero hours.


Really?

Again I don't remember Labour committing in 2010 to an £8 NMW by 2015

Nor do I remember any mention of zero hour contracts back in 2010 (let alone when I was on one when they were in power in 2003)

Could you link me to a source?
Original post by Quady
Really?

Again I don't remember Labour committing in 2010 to an £8 NMW by 2015

Nor do I remember any mention of zero hour contracts back in 2010 (let alone when I was on one when they were in power in 2003)

Could you link me to a source?


Oops, I thought you meant GE2015,
Original post by bobbyismyname
Oops, I thought you meant GE2015,


Even with that aside, with current rates if minimum wage growth £8 would be lagging behind and they made a bigger issue of ZHCs than they actually are

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Original post by Jammy Duel
Even with that aside, with current rates if minimum wage growth £8 would be lagging behind and they made a bigger issue of ZHCs than they actually are

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Doesn't detract from the fact that being offered a full time contract after 12 weeks of unstability (might work for you or not), is incredibly important. Whether you take it or not is your choice, but the option for stability should be there.

But £8 would most certainly be better than £6.50, and would be over the current living wage of £7.95
Reply 96
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Original post by bobbyismyname
Doesn't detract from the fact that being offered a full time contract after 12 weeks of unstability (might work for you or not), is incredibly important. Whether you take it or not is your choice, but the option for stability should be there.

But £8 would most certainly be better than £6.50, and would be over the current living wage of £7.95


You realise if you were shifting hours each week you wouldn't get a fixed contract?

It was only where you were on zero hours but had the same shift pattern for 12 weeks.

Other zero hour contracts weren't 'exploitative' in Ed's opinion.
Original post by Quady
You realise if you were shifting hours each week you wouldn't get a fixed contract?

It was only where you were on zero hours but had the same shift pattern for 12 weeks.

Other zero hour contracts weren't 'exploitative' in Ed's opinion.


But it is still unstable, your on zero hours not part-time! And the option should still be there
Original post by Quady
You realise if you were shifting hours each week you wouldn't get a fixed contract?

It was only where you were on zero hours but had the same shift pattern for 12 weeks.

Other zero hour contracts weren't 'exploitative' in Ed's opinion.


1) We will abolish exploitative zero-hours contracts, with rules introduced to give new rights to employees on zero-hours contracts. This will include the right for employees who have consistently worked regular hours to receive a fixed-hours contract automatically.2) We will ban employers from requiring zero-hours workers to be available on the off-chance that they’ll be needed.3) We will stop employees from being required to work exclusively for one firm if they are on a zero-hours contract.4) We will also ensure that zero-hours workers who have their shifts cancelled at short notice will receive compensation from their employer.

Do you honestly think these were bad ideas? Do you honestly think the element of choice shouldn't be there? Or that employees shouldn't be treated as people with lives?
Reply 99
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Original post by bobbyismyname
But it is still unstable, your on zero hours not part-time! And the option should still be there


Sure, but probably only applied to 2-3% of people on ZHCs

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