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What do you think about the "dad bod"? watch

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    (Original post by TorpidPhil)
    Well, obesity doesn't cause diabetes. Rather diabetes and obesity tend to be caused by the same thing which is why diabetes ends up being positively correlated with obesity - both are caused mostly by a continuous over-consumption of glucose.

    And with regards to overweight people in BMI terms dying later than underweight people, yeah, if you lift and thereby are overweight because of muscle and not fat then your health outcomes are going to be even better. I suspect most of the thing with overweight people dying later are to do with them being able to better handle "treatments" such as chemo which would basically kill underweight people.

    It's probably optimal for your health to stay at normal weight BMI, or overweight with lots of muscle until you're about 65 in which case being overweight without muscle or obese with muscle is probably optimal.
    Insulin resistance i.e. the progenitor to Type II diabetes and often subsequent Type 1 is caused by obesity in the overwhelming number of cases.

    Having had chemo - the ideal starting weight is within the healthy bf%. Too fat and too thin leads to problems. Being overweight isn't optimal for anything other than being overweight.
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    (Original post by Angry cucumber)
    Insulin resistance i.e. the progenitor to Type II diabetes and often subsequent Type 1 is caused by obesity in the overwhelming number of cases.

    Having had chemo - the ideal starting weight is within the healthy bf%. Too fat and too thin leads to problems. Being overweight isn't optimal for anything other than being overweight.
    How on Earth can obesity cause anything? It is a symptom not a disease. That's like saying being "tall" causes disease - no it doesn't, tallness is a property not an actual real thing. Tallness may be correlated with particular diseases though.

    "Obese people are less likely to survive cancer, and one reason may be a surprising inequality: The overweight are undertreated.Doctors often short them on chemotherapy by not basing the dose on size, as they should. They use ideal weight or cap the dose out of fear about how much treatment an obese patient can bear. Yet research shows that bigger people handle chemo better than smaller people do.Even a little less chemo can mean worse odds of survival, and studies suggest that as many as 40 percent of obese cancer patients have been getting less than 85 percent of the right dose for their size.Now, the largest organization of doctors who treat cancer, the American Society of Clinical Oncology, aims to change that. The group has adopted guidelines urging full, weight-based doses for the obese."

    I feel like there's a lot more margin for error when it comes to chemo on the overweight. Overdosing is very unlikely really and the negative effects of the drugs don't hit them as hard. You can really pump up the dosage as well to ensure the cancer doesn't survive - beyond levels that underweight people could tolerate.
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    (Original post by TorpidPhil)
    How on Earth can obesity cause anything? It is a symptom not a disease.
    It's defined as a disease in america and other places + it's regarded as an inflammatory state.

    There's 3 main theories that I'm aware of

    - Lipotoxicity in myocytes interfering with insulin signalling
    - Pro-inflammatory state - release of proinflammatory molecules leads to altered insulin signalling
    - Adipokines - decreased adiponectin when in an overweight state leads to decreased insulin sensitivity

    Insulin resistance leads to more insulin being needed, which eventually leads to Type 2 diabetes, it basically means that the body can't produce enough insulin to reduce glucose levels to their normal levels. This further leads to Type 1 diabetes from beta cells in the pancreas being unable to produce insulin as they become exhausted.
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    (Original post by Angry cucumber)
    It's defined as a disease in america and other places + it's regarded as an inflammatory state.

    There's 3 main theories that I'm aware of

    - Lipotoxicity in myocytes interfering with insulin signalling
    - Pro-inflammatory state - release of proinflammatory molecules leads to altered insulin signalling
    - Adipokines - decreased adiponectin when in an overweight state leads to decreased insulin sensitivity

    Insulin resistance leads to more insulin being needed, which eventually leads to Type 2 diabetes, it basically means that the body can't produce enough insulin to reduce glucose levels to their normal levels. This further leads to Type 1 diabetes from beta cells in the pancreas being unable to produce insulin as they become exhausted.
    All that "overweight" in normal boring terms means is high BMI. That is, weighs a lot for their height. Increasing in weigh does not causally result in increased insulin sensitivity is my point. It is something that is correlated with increased weight that does. For example if I am very average weight and start weightlifting and eating more and actually gain weight but decrease in body fat percentage since most of my weight gain was muscle then will, by necessity, I have became more insulin resistant?

    Another way of looking at it - Are underweight people the least insulin resistant of all people by necessity?

    Obesity is a "state" of the body or a "property" of it - it is not an "action" the body undertakes therefore it cannot cause things to happen within the body, it can only be correlated with them.
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    (Original post by TorpidPhil)
    All that "overweight" in normal boring terms means is high BMI. That is, weighs a lot for their height. Increasing in weigh does not causally result in increased insulin sensitivity is my point. It is something that is correlated with increased weight that does. For example if I am very average weight and start weightlifting and eating more and actually gain weight but decrease in body fat percentage since most of my weight gain was muscle then will, by necessity, I have became more insulin resistant?
    Become fat - become insulin resistant. It's not a casual relationship, it's a real measurable one. Whilst not every overweight person is insulin resistant off the bat. Those who are overweight are at a greatly increased risk of getting diabetes via the mechanisms I described above of insulin resistance. Consider us lucky as in other species, e.g. the horse - any horse obese for 2 years 100% has strong insulin resistance.

    Another way of looking at it - Are underweight people the least insulin resistant of all people by necessity?
    The honest answer is I don't know as I'm not a specialist in the area, a medic or two around might be able to answer that better than I would be. But having very low bf comes with it's own problems, far more than worrying about how insulin sensitive you are despite it standing to reason.

    Obesity is a "state" of the body or a "property" of it - it is not an "action" the body undertakes therefore it cannot cause things to happen within the body, it can only be correlated with them.
    Adipocytes are cells like any other, in greater number they change the bodies dynamics entirely. It is not merely a property. As a lecturer put it to us "Obesity is a chronic inflammatory state", it has real biological changes and hence the increased risk of diabetes, CV disease etc.
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    (Original post by Angry cucumber)
    Become fat - become insulin resistant. It's not a casual relationship, it's a real measurable one. Whilst not every overweight person is insulin resistant off the bat. Those who are overweight are at a greatly increased risk of getting diabetes via the mechanisms I described above of insulin resistance. Consider us lucky as in other species, e.g. the horse - any horse obese for 2 years 100% has strong insulin resistance.



    The honest answer is I don't know as I'm not a specialist in the area, a medic or two around might be able to answer that better than I would be. But having very low bf comes with it's own problems, far more than worrying about how insulin sensitive you are despite it standing to reason.



    Adipocytes are cells like any other, in greater number they change the bodies dynamics entirely. It is not merely a property. As a lecturer put it to us "Obesity is a chronic inflammatory state", it has real biological changes and hence the increased risk of diabetes, CV disease etc.
    Semantics. I'm talking about causal relationships based on "overweight" merely meaning weighing X at height X. I'm not talking about the quantities of specific cells and so on.

    You see, the reason why this is important is because otherwise people just consider calories and don't care about actual micro-nutrients or even macro-nutrients! Ahh I'm not overweight since I don't eat a lot of food so I'm perfectly healthy. Whereas in reality so long as your mass is not coming from specific types of unhealthy (and the notion of "unhealthy" anything is something else to rant at) cells it isn't a priori true that you are less healthy.

    Overweight according to BMI makes many athletes overweight. And yes, I wasn't necessarily talking about BF%.
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    If you don't think obesity can cause other diseases, then you don't understand obesity.

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    (Original post by TorpidPhil)
    Semantics. I'm talking about causal relationships based on "overweight" merely meaning weighing X at height X. I'm not talking about the quantities of specific cells and so on.
    So you're not talking of being overweight i.e. has too much fat? Ok seems legit.

    You see, the reason why this is important is because otherwise people just consider calories and don't care about actual micro-nutrients or even macro-nutrients! Ahh I'm not overweight since I don't eat a lot of food so I'm perfectly healthy. Whereas in reality so long as your mass is not coming from specific types of unhealthy (and the notion of "unhealthy" anything is something else to rant at) cells it isn't a priori true that you are less healthy.
    There are fat vegans in this world, they're no more healthy than they're omnivorous overweight friends

    Overweight according to BMI makes many athletes overweight. And yes, I wasn't necessarily talking about BF%.
    Which would be why BMI is completely negligable for the fit, healthy and muscular. Overweight =/= being muscular.

    (Original post by Hype en Ecosse)
    If you don't think obesity can cause other diseases, then you don't understand obesity.

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    Exactly this
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    (Original post by Angry cucumber)
    So you're not talking of being overweight i.e. has too much fat? Ok seems legit.



    There are fat vegans in this world, they're no more healthy than they're omnivorous overweight friends



    Which would be why BMI is completely negligable for the fit, healthy and muscular. Overweight =/= being muscular.



    Exactly this
    (Original post by Hype en Ecosse)
    If you don't think obesity can cause other diseases, then you don't understand obesity.

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    Kay. I think the whole point has just flew past both of y'all heads so I'm just going to drop it.
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    (Original post by TorpidPhil)
    Kay. I think the whole point has just flew past both of y'all heads so I'm just going to drop it.
    You had a point?
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    (Original post by SmashConcept)
    You had a point?
    Nobody got it?

    Oh well.
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    (Original post by TorpidPhil)
    Nobody got it?

    Oh well.
    Wait, was it a joke?
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    (Original post by SmashConcept)
    Wait, was it a joke?
    No. Just pedantic I guess :indiff:
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    There is something reassuringly solid and un-narcissistic about dad bod...
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    Dad bod is another world for "settling".

    Women go for "Dad bod" because they themselves are second rate. Its like they don't want someone because hes the best but because they are second rate themselves and don't want to be found wanting by comparison.
 
 
 
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