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    (Original post by arfah)
    Beating your wife is allowed if she disobeys her husband. Attachment 460765
    I sent you that :awesome:
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    Yes they do. Not very well, but they still mix. There is no impenetrable barrier between oceans...
    The only way they mix is by physical agitation, like wind or ships crossing over. These oceans have been around for thousands and thousands of years. Surely they would have mixed by now?
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    (Original post by Law-Hopeful)
    I sent you that :awesome:
    Really? :awesome: I just looked up wife beating Islam and it was one of the first things to come up.
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    (Original post by Religion)
    The only way they mix is by physical agitation, like wind or ships crossing over. These oceans have been around for thousands and thousands of years. Surely they would have mixed by now?
    But oceans do mix, there is no barrier between them..
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    (Original post by MrKmas508)



    Here's a link to a video I know you'll enjoy. Btw my point is that if you look for a hidden meaning hard enough you'll find it in everything so start being rational.
    I did not enjoy it. Again your point has nothing to do with me.
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    (Original post by Religion)
    I laughed too. So the 23 chromosome miracle is a coincidence. What about the land water ratio?

    Please post relevant verses on the land / water miracle so we can see them for ourselves. Any necessary mathematical functions/ trig necessary will also help.

    thanks
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    But oceans do mix, there is no barrier between them..
    http://physics.stackexchange.com/que...o-seas-not-mix
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    (Original post by kyoti)
    that is from religionofpeace; an anti-Islam website.you might want to read this which includes sahih hadiths and commentary from scholars of Islam and with references you can look up: http://nour-dv.org.uk/tafseer-surah-...-wife-beating/
    Is that source supposed to help your argument? :confused:

    This is what your source says:
    Thus to be a qawwam over something or someone is to guard, maintain or take care of that something or someone in a proper and fair manner.

    If there is any single word in English that can convey the meaning of the word as used in the present word it is probably the one used by Muhammad Pickthal, namely, guardian. [1]

    Allama Muhammad Asad writes:The expression qawwam is an intensive form of qa’im ( “one who is responsible for” or “takes care of” a thing or a “person” ). Thus, “qama ‘ala ‘l-mar’ah” signifies “he undertook the maintenance of the woman” or “he maintained her” ( see Lane VIII, 2995 ).

    The grammatical form qawwam is more comprehensive than qa’im, and combines the concepts of physical maintenance and protection as well as of moral responsibility: and it is because of the last-named factor that I have rendered this phrase as “men shall take full care of women”. [2]Shayk Abdullah Yusuf Ali writes:Qawwam: one who stands firm in another’s buisiness, protects his interests, and looks after his affairs; or it may be, standing firm in his own business, managing affairs, with a steady purpose. [3]
    Wow, the misogyny, it burns! "Moral responsibility" can easily be used to justify a man "protecting his interests" by beating his wife. Nothing in that source disproves what arfah (correctly) said 4:34 justifies.

    Could you try and summarise why the standard translation of 4:34 is wrong in your own words, and what it actually means?

    arfah Can you help? What alternative interpretation of 4:34 does this guy's source posit and what makes it any less misogynistic than the standard interpretation of 4:34?
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    (Original post by TeachChemistry)
    Please post relevant verses on the land / water miracle so we can see them for ourselves. Any necessary mathematical functions/ trig necessary will also help.

    thanks
    If I do provide evidence would it be coincidence or would you have a different opinion?
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    That's not a separation of 2 oceans and you should read your own links, there is still mixing taking place. There is no barrier that water molecules can't pass. I repeat, try this at home with saltwater and freshwater.

    And again, how would this be miraculous?
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    (Original post by hayderm)
    Salam to all, i have a very big doubt thats killing me. After reading and looking at Richard Dawkins work and how evolution goes against the idea that 'God created man' and looking at how atheists have increased in numbers by so much since science is increasing, im having doubts my religion is even right and im following it 'just in case' the day of judgement or hell is real, thats my only fear now literally the only reason. I want to ask, lets say i searched and im convinced that islam is wrong, but then it turns out to be true, will i go Hell? Can i say im justified because i searched and was not convinced? Theres so many problems with Islam that i cant get my head around it.

    -Sex Slaves
    -Masters having sex with their 'slaves' which can already be married
    -Too many sects and differences in belief
    -All miracles have no scientific proof or record-Quran is extremely ambiguous and can be interpreted incorrectly so much

    I want to believe so much and not leave and upset Allah but theres just not enough to hold me closely to my deen. Or am i just in my doubt period? My Iman as a muslim sways too much

    Edit: In case anyone is wondering, after reading every respond although i apologies i cannot reply to each, i have decided thanks to the help of many brothers and sisters to delve into my religion once again as ive now got more info and will search for the truth from within.
    I was in a similar situation to you and still am to an extent.

    I feel like i have two colliding identities and don't know what to stay true to, the collective religious identity or my personal identity made up of my own thoughts and experiences.

    I am beginning to realize the most important thing in life is being true to yourself.

    Even though am not 100% sure of the divine origins of Islam as a matter of provable knowledge, I like having a belief in something and i like partaking in many of the spiritual and charitable activates.

    In essence i pick and choose but hey you will always find interpretations that complement your inclinations and thoughts, e.g. some scholars agree with evolution and provide quranic evidences for it, obviously their interpretation of the quran.
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    Another gem from that source:

    Afzular Rahman , “Role of Muslim Women in Society”, p. 149:
    ‘Umar (RA) told him that he tolerated the excesses of his wife for she had certain rights against him. He said, “Is it not true that she prepares food for me, washes clothes for me and suckles my children, thus saving me the expense of employing a cook, a washerman and a nurse, though she is not legally obliged in any way to do any of these things? Besides, I enjoy peace of mind because of her and am kept away from indecent acts on account of her. I therefore tolerate all her excesses on account of these benefits. It is right that you should also adopt the same attitude.”
    How kind of him, to "tolerate" his (house)wife's "excesses"! :daydreaming:
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    That's not a separation of 2 oceans and you should read your own links, there is still mixing taking place. There is no barrier that water molecules can't pass. I repeat, try this at home with saltwater and freshwater.

    And again, how would this be miraculous?
    Mixing? Again the only way they mix is by physical agitation. If I put a cup of saltwater and freshwater (with a much larger density difference) in a bowl, they would still mix.
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    (Original post by Religion)
    If I do provide evidence would it be coincidence or would you have a different opinion?
    I am not asking for evidence - I am simply asking for your source straight from the Quran. I seem to have misplaced my copy.
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    (Original post by hayderm)
    Salam to all, i have a very big doubt thats killing me. After reading and looking at Richard Dawkins work and how evolution goes against the idea that 'God created man' and looking at how atheists have increased in numbers by so much since science is increasing, im having doubts my religion is even right and im following it 'just in case' the day of judgement or hell is real, thats my only fear now literally the only reason. I want to ask, lets say i searched and im convinced that islam is wrong, but then it turns out to be true, will i go Hell? Can i say im justified because i searched and was not convinced? Theres so many problems with Islam that i cant get my head around it.

    -Sex Slaves
    -Masters having sex with their 'slaves' which can already be married
    -Too many sects and differences in belief
    -All miracles have no scientific proof or record-Quran is extremely ambiguous and can be interpreted incorrectly so much

    I want to believe so much and not leave and upset Allah but theres just not enough to hold me closely to my deen. Or am i just in my doubt period? My Iman as a muslim sways too much

    Edit: In case anyone is wondering, after reading every respond although i apologies i cannot reply to each, i have decided thanks to the help of many brothers and sisters to delve into my religion once again as ive now got more info and will search for the truth from within.
    Give up religion, and never look back.
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    (Original post by TeachChemistry)
    I am not asking for evidence - I am simply asking for your source straight from the Quran. I seem to have misplaced my copy.
    Here, does anyone use google anymore?
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    (Original post by TeachChemistry)
    I am not asking for evidence - I am simply asking for your source straight from the Quran. I seem to have misplaced my copy.
    Same question applies.
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    (Original post by Law-Hopeful)
    Is that source supposed to help your argument? :confused:

    This is what your source says:

    Wow, the misogyny, it burns! "Moral responsibility" can easily be used to justify a man "protecting his interests" by beating his wife. Nothing in that source disproves what arfah (correctly) said 4:34 justifies.

    Could you try and summarise why the standard translation of 4:34 is wrong in your own words, and what it actually means?

    arfah Can you help? What alternative interpretation of 4:34 does this guy's source posit and what makes it any less misogynistic than the standard interpretation of 4:34?
    Tbh that source just confused me more because it's practically saying the same thing? Just with more detail
    (Original post by Law-Hopeful)
    Another gem from that source:

    Afzular Rahman , “Role of Muslim Women in Society”, p. 149:

    How kind of him, to "tolerate" his (house)wife's "excesses"! :daydreaming:
    Lol shut up :lol: you're making me laugh.
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    I think I found the crux of that (needlessly superfluous and wooly) article.

    the Prophet stipulated in his final speech, during the farewell Hajj, that a husband is only allowed “to hit” if the wife “has become guilty, in an obvious manner, of immoral conduct”, and that it should be done “in such a way as not to cause pain [ ghayr mubarrih ]“. This is the correct, final, and binding explanation / interpretation / exegesis of the verse in question.
    1. So even this website agrees that the Quran mandates a man to use violence and "hit" his wife (but no such opposite mandate exists, as men are the "guardians" of women - of course, what would poor little women do without men? :rolleyes:).
    2. The Quran mandates that is is the man's role to check the morality of his wife and discipline her if he judges that she has transgressed moral norms of Islam (endemically, and blatantly, sexist).
    3. This alternative interpretation is contradictory: it posits that the Quran states that a husband is allowed "to hit" his wife but not "cause pain". So we are to assume that by "hit" it means "light touch"? This does not make sense. If so, what would be the point of such light contact? It would be so light so as to not have any foreseeable effect.
    4. Try again.
    Spoiler:
    Show

    arfah I think I found the alternative interpretation. Please let me know your thoughts on my analysis of it.
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    (Original post by MrKmas508)


    Here, does anyone use google anymore?
    Thank you. But why use Google if all the answers are in the Quran. Where do I sign up?
 
 
 
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