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    (Original post by Retired_Messiah)
    Hold on hold on hold up a minute here...
    At the start of the article...


    ... Institute of Physics? What does this have to do with physics?
    I put this is an earlier reply...
    It is interesting that it's the Institute of Physics that's issued the 'advice', because there does appear to be a real issue with A level physics and gender divide. There are statistically significant differences in the proportions of girls taking GCSE physics who go on to study it at A level between different types of schools - with around 25% of mixed state schools having NO girls taking A level physics, and numbers generally higher at all girls schools. Did you see the statistic about the relative proportions of girls (19%) and boys(about half) who get A* at GCSE who go on to study Physics A-level?
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    (Original post by drbluebox)
    I thought that myself but I assume its due to cupcakes being sweet, therefore a feminine stereotype so another way of saying something like sweetheart.

    Or that some people call cupcakes fairy cakes and fairy is used as a insult to gay people so I dont know.
    Those are the biggest reaches I've seen all week...

    (Original post by cheshiremum)
    I put this is an earlier reply...It is interesting that it's the Institute of Physics that's issued the 'advice', because there does appear to be a real issue with A level physics and gender divide. There are statistically significant differences in the proportions of girls taking GCSE physics who go on to study it at A level between different types of schools - with around 25% of mixed state schools having NO girls taking A level physics, and numbers generally higher at all girls schools. Did you see the statistic about the relative proportions of girls (19%) and boys(about half) who get A* at GCSE who go on to study Physics A-level?
    Mmmm I read that in the article there was gaps but in my experience people normally choose subjects they, you know, want to do, rather than it being any form of "no I can't do this I'll look like a girl/boy". At my school at least literally nobody cared what you took or judged you for it. I definitely never took other people's opinions of me into account with my A level subjects, and I'm a boy that took French (according to the article foreign languages is seen as a "female" subject). I really think it's just the natural difference between girls and boys that causes the different choices rather than any form of sexism against people in most cases.
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    (Original post by drbluebox)
    Turning a job down because of that is pretty petty when people are desperate for work, it also seems quite shaming really.

    I wouldnt mind as a male being called cupcake in certain contexts as in friendly, or as they see me as younger, if it was used to call me weak then yes, people have to get get thicker skins these days.

    I have had old ladies call me flower or petal, its a term of affection its not due to gender, to make it a gender thing in that way is stupid and seems based on ego because it is saying "you MUST be calling me that because you see me as different as I am female"
    You don't seem to understand the idea of context. Yes, strangers often call lots of people love/sweetheart etc., often because they don't know (or can't remember) your name. I don't particularly like it but I ignore it. There is a world of difference between that and being being called Blossom in an interview for a job as a graduate/chartered engineer - or to be honest any interview.

    I would expect that most women work with or have worked with men who call them love/sweetheart/flower/blossom and who combine this with thinking women that need looking after and protecting but are not really capable of much. That's why being called flower etc irritates, but stopping men using it won't stop the inherent sexism.

    (Original post by drbluebox)
    You seem to think man up is ok, there is other terms you can use such as grow up if someone is being petty or grin and bear it if giving support even pull your socks up can be used.

    The reason man up has become bad to me as in the past it was used more to say "things can be worse, just grin and bear it" now its used to more mean the person you are speaking to is weak and often to boost someones own ego.
    None of the phrases you suggest are as pithy or project quite the same sentiment - for instance none of them would really work as a response to a teenager trying to get a lift to school because he doesn't want to cycle in the rain.
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    (Original post by Retired_Messiah)
    Those are the biggest reaches I've seen all week...



    Mmmm I read that in the article there was gaps but in my experience people normally choose subjects they, you know, want to do, rather than it being any form of "no I can't do this I'll look like a girl/boy". At my school at least literally nobody cared what you took or judged you for it. I definitely never took other people's opinions of me into account with my A level subjects, and I'm a boy that took French (according to the article foreign languages is seen as a "female" subject). I really think it's just the natural difference between girls and boys that causes the different choices rather than any form of sexism against people in most cases.
    Sadly, having looked at the research, I don't think these differences are natural...I think it's more than odd that there are so many mixed state schools - including specialist science and engineering colleges - where there are zero girls doing A level physics. But I'm glad you're happy with your choices, bon chance! (I dropped French at 16, did sciences)
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    (Original post by cheshiremum)
    Sadly, having looked at the research, I don't think these differences are natural...I think it's more than odd that there are so many mixed state schools - including specialist science and engineering colleges - where there are zero girls doing A level physics. But I'm glad you're happy with your choices, bon chance! (I dropped French at 16, did sciences)
    I read engineering and having met a few female engineers, I noticed a common thread to the schools they'd been to and have been asking female engineers I meet every since. I'm sure there are some, but I have yet to meet a female engineer who went to a mixed 11-16 school. Mixed sixth forms appear to be fine. (And yes, obviously, I went to a girls' school as did my 2 nieces reading engineering)
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    (Original post by Compost)
    I read engineering and having met a few female engineers, I noticed a common thread to the schools they'd been to and have been asking female engineers I meet every since. I'm sure there are some, but I have yet to meet a female engineer who went to a mixed 11-16 school. Mixed sixth forms appear to be fine. (And yes, obviously, I went to a girls' school as did my 2 nieces reading engineering)
    I have an engineering degree. I went to all girls schools from 11 to 14, then moved schools to a mixed school from 14 onwards. So I almost fit your observations too.
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    I completely agree with these.

    I have a 5 year old son and I'm often told, by family members, that he's "too sensitive" - why? because he doesn't like to wrestle and fight!

    He was being hit in school last year by the same boy every day. I went to speak to his teacher and her response was "boys will be boys" .... since when has being violent had anything to do with being a man/boy? by excusing a young childs aggressive behavior based on his gender will only create problems further down the line, if he starts beating his wife/boyfriend then what? will it still just be "boys will be boys"?

    I know many men who feel like they cannot express themselves emotional due to gender stereotypes, they feel it's "wrong" for them to cry, this is so wrong.
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    Thank you left wingers, you got what you wanted 'cupcakes' or should I say 'sissies' ('lesbians' for girls)
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    (Original post by Keyhofi)
    Wait, since when was "cupcake" sexist? I always thought it just meant cute, and children are cute so...
    Have you not met a feminist? 99% of the vocabulary is regarded as sexist to them
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    I think the teachers and faculty should be taught to avoid terms like this, but I don't think it's fair to push this this kind of thinking on young children.
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    I'm a bit undecided. I definitely agree with the reasons for implementing this, I think such insults shouldn't be seen as acceptable. I do however question if it's a good idea to treat it so seriously, they are at the end of the day still kids. I think education may be better than outright banning the word. I'm not against the idea though.
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    Yeah, it's fair. There's a whole bunch of other words and phrases people can use.

    Rather than 'man up' and 'sissie' etc...why not use 'stop being soft?' Especially if it's used in a sporting context. You could even try a variation, like, "stop being 4-ply brah" etc.



    It's sad, when 'like a girl' is used like an insult, and people can't make that connection. Unfortunately, for a signifcant number, it's still okay to throw things around like, "that's gay" or "that Jewish" which ultimately demean the thing in an unsatisfactory way, as well as people who pertain to that type.

    If someone says, 'you run like a girl,' I hope someone points to Kelly Holmes, Jessica Ennis or Paula Radcliffe or someone of that ilk. Because they are champions. I mean, if it's a boy and someone is saying that 'you run like a girl,' obviously it is hurtful, but there are other ways of saying that they could run in a different way or to get them to put in 100% if there is the perception that they are not running at 100%.

    Oh, and yeah, Kelly Holmes ran at 100% in 2004 and won two gold medals.
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    Yeah like this is going to stop people lol
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    Teachers will just find other ways to bully children.
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    The idea of there being unacceptable words has my support. What surprises me is what is not on the list- ******, referring to someone/something as 'gay' and a few others come to mind.
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    Quite a few ******s in this thread. I smell ******.
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    Why the hell are people getting so butthurt over this? As much as I agree with free speech, this is hardly totalitarian censorship like some of you seem to believe.
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    (Original post by cheshiremum)
    Not sure I can get too bothered by cupcake either - although it sounds a bit trivialising. It's a shame you think it's ridiculous though - you might think differently if you have kids when you're older.
    I do have two kids.

    The different subjects thing, though, is not a blithe assumption...Language can be very powerful; 'don't be such a girl' is an insult, 'man up' implies being more like a man is a good thing.
    I'm afraid the social constructionist argument is strong on assumption and short on evidence. There is very strong evidence that prenatal effects shape brain development, that boys show interest in "things" and girls in other people from young ages. It is true that people treat young boys and girls differently, but I think that is more easily explained as responding to natural sex differences in behaviours and preferences. As a psychologist, this subject is close to my heart.

    Check out the gender equality paradox - in more gender equal countries like Norway, you find very large sex differences in academic subjects taken. In gender unequal countries, you find smaller differences, which is totally the opposite of what the social construction theory predicts, but totally consistent with natural sex differences that get moderated when "masculine" jobs like science and engineering are more important for prosperity.

    Great documentary here for those interested: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p5LR...ature=youtu.be. The whole series is great.

    I'm not saying the phrases are all fine. Some of them can definitely be mean depending on context. But surely schools already tell people off for bullying or being mean in the playground. Why do we need extra rules just for gender based insults?
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    (Original post by drbluebox)
    I have already said this a few times in this thread but man up is often used as a insult or to call someone weak and pathetic, I got fed up of hearing it from teenagers at uni, my brothers fiance was murdered and I felt low I got told "man up, people are on the streets" or "man up theres people in 3rd world countries" etc

    Or when some insults my looks, intellgience, social background and I take offense its "man up and stop being pathetic"

    Its often used by people who do not understand how they are hurting or insulting someone because they are judging on their own limited life.
    I accept that being told to man up in your situation when your brothers finance was murdered was wrong, and I'm sorry for your loss. in that situation they were being very insensitive and I never assumed someone would dream of saying it to someone suffering a bereavement.

    The situation I herd it in was i was standing on a climbing wall and suddenly got a bit of vertigo (very out of character for me) they belaying me yelled up Jon you need to man up I did "man up" and got down it's what I needed to hear. I guess as with all these thing s theres a time and place.
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    Roll one smoke one, we don't need no hate, have a bit of weed and you'll be rate mush
 
 
 
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