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    lol double post
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    (Original post by mmm778899)
    Please sign an online petition (and share on facebook/twitter etc) demanding only British citizens be allowed to vote in the EU referendum:

    https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/109868
    lol hold on are you saying that those who have immigrated to the uk and hold refuge statuses shouldn't vote because they don't have red British passports but have visas and are still affected by the government's decisions?
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    (Original post by wqzu)
    Race from a social point of view is a group of people sharing similar qualities. Do british citizens not share the similar quality of being a british citizen?
    Race is biological in nature, arising from breeding over many generations in isolation. To be a British citizen, you do not have to have lived on these islands for the past thousand years, anyone can become one. As such, many people from many different populations make up the British people, so British citizens cannot be classed as a race.

    (Original post by wqzu)
    They already live here. You and I got off easy by being born here, they had to work for it. They most definitely deserve a say, seeing as how it'll affect them and all.
    Foreigners come to Britain of their own freewill, and they do so for their own benefit. If they love the country so much that they want to dictate how it's run via elections and referendums, they should show it and apply for citizenship.
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    (Original post by hektik)
    Race is biological in nature, arising from breeding over many generations in isolation. To be a British citizen, you do not have to have lived on these islands for the past thousand years, anyone can become one. As such, many people from many different populations make up the British people, so British citizens cannot be classed as a race.
    Alright, lets drop the logical fallacies and call it a bigoted statement rather than a racist one then.

    Foreigners come to Britain of their own freewill, and they do so for their own benefit.
    I imagine that's very similar to your reasoning for staying, so I don't see how it's relevant.

    If they love the country so much that they want to dictate how it's run via elections and referendums, they should show it and apply for citizenship.
    You can't dictate through a democratic vote my friend, no matter how hard you try.
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    (Original post by wqzu)
    Alright, lets drop the logical fallacies and call it a bigoted statement rather than a racist one then.

    I imagine that's very similar to your reasoning for staying, so I don't see how it's relevant.

    You can't dictate through a democratic vote my friend, no matter how hard you try.
    I'm gonna cut to the chase. This is a referendum for whether this nation, the United Kingdom, remains in the EU. The British people are what make the nation, they are the nation.

    Seeing as this is whether the nation remains in the EU, it is only logical that it is the decision of the British people to dictate (state or order authoritatively) via a democratic referendum whether or not they want to remain in the EU. If the majority dictate in, we stay in; if the majority dictate out, we leave.

    If you are not British, it doesn't matter why, but if you are not British, you do not get a vote, precisely because you are not British, because this is a referendum for the British people for whether Britain should remain in the EU.
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    (Original post by hektik)
    There is a small degree of freedom for where biologists draw the line between different groups of organisms. For example, I believe there exists a species of lion that is divided into two distinct sub-species, the sub-species which are genetically closer to one-another (however genetic closeness is determined) than, for example, indigenous Europeans and indigenous Sub-Saharan Africans. We don't choose to class Europeans and Sub-Saharan Africans as separate sub-species, nor do I believe we should, but going by the way biologists have previously separated organisms of the same species, in theory we could.
    I'll fetch my skull-measurer and my pencil.
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    (Original post by L i b)
    I'll fetch my skull-measurer and my pencil.
    These kind of techniques and this kind of "science" was used by whites a few hundred years to "prove" white superiority over blacks. I know you're just trying to look clever, but my point still stands. They don't matter, but there are genetic differences between individuals and there are differences between groups of individuals. We sometimes group people into races, and there are differences between them. Bring politics into it all you like, it doesn't make a difference. I don't get this insistance that we are all the same and there are no differences between us. What's wrong with being different?
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    Political Ambassador
    (Original post by Vikingninja)
    Those who are living within the UK can decide on what happens. Denying someone that is just racism and a breach of human rights.
    Then get the government up in court for denying these people the right to vote in the general election, along with Lords, lunatics, prisoners, minors, the French, Obama, Kim Jong-Un, and all the other people who are over 18 and are not citizens of the UK, ROI, Crown Dependencies, British Overseas Territories, or commonwealth nations, all ~5bn of them.

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    (Original post by hektik)
    These kind of techniques and this kind of "science" was used by whites a few hundred years to "prove" white superiority over blacks. I know you're just trying to look clever, but my point still stands. They don't matter, but there are genetic differences between individuals and there are differences between groups of individuals.
    The first is true, the second is not. Biological differences between individuals are on a continuum: racial groupings are pseudo-scientific bunkum.
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    (Original post by L i b)
    The first is true, the second is not. Biological differences between individuals are on a continuum: racial groupings are pseudo-scientific bunkum.
    Then how come I can tell you with decent accuracy and just by looking at someone where about in the world their ancestors would have lived 500 years ago?
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    Signed.

    Not British people are just guests, and as a guest- they shouldn't really dictate host what to do. They can either go through naturalisation/registration or... well, pack their stuff and leave, they are not held here against their will.

    (Original post by longking)
    lol hold on are you saying that those who have immigrated to the uk and hold refuge statuses shouldn't vote because they don't have red British passports but have visas and are still affected by the government's decisions?
    1. Economic migrants have chosen to come here, as I wrote- nobody is forcing them to come and stay. If they fell in love with the country, they should apply for citizenship, prove they are worthy of becoming British.
    2. What was the last time there was a war in neighbouring countries? if you travel through whole continent because you "run from warzone" then, after leaving first safe country, you are becoming pretty much an economic migrant. I cannot blame nobody for that, I'd probably do the same- but still it doesn't mean they should have a full voting rights.

    isn't that sad, that only within the UK phrase "Full voting rights for citizens only" is controversial?
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    (Original post by Vikingninja)
    Because this clearly isn't going to bias the vote.
    You know what would bias the vote?

    Including non-British citizens.
    (Original post by Vikingninja)
    Those who are living within the UK can decide on what happens. Denying someone that is just racism and a breach of human rights.
    :laugh:

    Oh, the left.

    Apparently now non-citizens have a 'human right' to vote in British elections.

    Do you ever listen to yourself and think, wait, where am I getting this from? By definition it isn't a human right, because no-one is arguing that it should be extended to all humans. It's a civil right, i.e. a right which can be demanded by citizens.

    Nor is this anything to do with race. This part shouldn't even need explaining.
    (Original post by longking)
    but have visas and are still affected by the government's decisions?
    You know who else is affected by the British government's decisions? ISIS. The EU. Any enemy or potential enemy of the British State. Any aid recipient or potential aid recipient of the British State. The UN security council, and, thereby, everyone in the world. Just how far would you extend the franchise?

    If you think just being on our land should give one the right to vote, you must explain why. The same goes for being awarded a privilege by the British State: being permitted to live here, and being helped out by the British Government, gives one an additional right to vote in British elections, according to you? Whereas, if we turned down the asylum application, and refuse to help them out, presumably you agree that they shouldn't be able to vote? That makes absolutely no sense.

    However much the Islington cosmopolitans try to tell you otherwise, ultimately, as citizens, this is our country. That is why we ought to be able to decide amongst ourselves what happens to it.
 
 
 
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