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Ucas to enforce 'name-blind' applications to tackle racial bias watch

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    (Original post by choco_muncher)
    I think it's a brilliant idea.

    I'm half English and half Bangladeshi, I have English name and I believe I can gain interviews and jobs easier that my cousins. I feel this is because my cousin have Bangladeshi names. They found it much more difficult to get a interviews and job after university than me and my siblings despite the fact all 3 of them went to better universities. I truly believe this is because of their Bangladeshi names.

    On equality and diversity forms I always state "Prefer not to say". I walk in to an interview, I can see straight away that the interviewers expected a white person. But by getting the interview I feel I show them, that I am normal, and I deserve to be judged in the same way as a White British person.
    So you really believe it matters to them?

    I guess I just have trouble believing that I would get treated better in the UK than you would just because I'm White and my name is Jeremy Andrews. I mean, it's not as if the British don't have stereotypes about Americans. I've never heard of any stereotypes about people from Bangladesh.

    Well, since there are people who believe they discriminate the old-fashioned way in the UK, I guess it's a good thing they're doing this. I just can't imagine British people actually being prejudiced, because they're basically 50 years ahead of us socially and morally.
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    (Original post by jeremy1988)
    I'm not sure it would be hard for someone to figure out my ethnicity from my scholastic achievements...

    For instance, if you were to estimate the ethnic identity of people who make top marks in English and History, and choose to take European History and Latin as classes outside their major... what do you think 80-90% of them will be? Conversely, what about people who have records of ESOL classes, or didn't do as well in English?

    You get the idea, right? They can essentially pick who they want by looking at patterns.
    Well I guess they'll guess my ethnicity wrong if they look into my A level subjects and English/History grades. :rolleyes:

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    A racist is no longer a racist if he's blind to a person's name on an application?

    When will progressives finally accept that you can't force people to change their perspectives? You can't defeat racism. In my experience of having interacted with tens of thousands of people throughout my life racist views are held by a tiny number of people, yet there will ALWAYS be racists; there will be racists in 2015, and there will be racists in 2115.

    However, as per usual Universities are primary candidates for reinforcing the very prejudices they claim to oppose. What's the greatest way to tackle the problem of preconceptions formed around skin colour? Stop giving it credence. STOP viewing people through the prism of race. STOP sensationalising the prevalence of racism in modern society - to the vast majority of people, race is an absolute irrelevance.
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    (Original post by jeremy1988)
    So you really believe it matters to them?

    I guess I just have trouble believing that I would get treated better in the UK than you would just because I'm White and my name is Jeremy Andrews. I mean, it's not as if the British don't have stereotypes about Americans. I've never heard of any stereotypes about people from Bangladesh.

    Well, since there are people who believe they discriminate the old-fashioned way in the UK, I guess it's a good thing they're doing this. I just can't imagine British people actually being prejudiced, because they're basically 50 years ahead of us socially and morally.
    That and, without meaning to sound crass, most British people I know just don't give a ****. Race is an irrelevance which is sensationalised dishonestly and for the purposes of accruing political capital and victimhood.

    I haven't come across a racist comment, or an action I would deem motivated by racism, in years. My girlfriend is Sri Lankan - she has never, ever experienced racism in The UK and she has been here for 10 years. My best friend is from Mauritius, he hasn't experienced racism.

    Much like rape culture, it just doesn't reflect reality. Then again, victimhood is the most valuable currency in the modern political climate, and everyone wants the largest shareholding.
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    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    It was done with fake CVs and was statistically valid. Interestingly there was a greater level of discrimination (though reported as not statistically significant) against the Chinese than those with South Asian Islamic names.

    www.natcen.ac.uk/media/20541/test-for-racial-discrimination.pdf

    Similar research in France has found the same result.
    That is an interesting result and not one I would expect. I consider it good grounds for introducing name-blind applications.

    However, I still think it's important to point out that this is probably not the main or even an important source of disparity in university attendance between races, for precisely the reason that the better-performing groups don't suffer less and sometimes suffer more discrimination. The racial prejudice hypothesis predicts that discrimination based on name should line up with workplace success (I guess employers should discriminate against white British candidates in favour of Chinese). The study agrees on page 45 that racial prejudice is not important in determining labour market outcomes within the scope of the study:

    "On this evidence, it does not appear that differences in labour outcomes between ethnic minority groups are the result of discrimination in the application phase of the recruitment process. This is not to discount discrimination as an explanation, as there are other points in the recruitment process and while in employment where discrimination could operate differently for particular groups."

    One missed opportunity here is excluding a white non-British name category. It is possible that employers are using names as a proxy for actual (as opposed to claimed, or inferred from a CV that could have been edited by a third party) English skills. That would explain why less successful minorities that are more likely to be native English speakers are favoured ahead of more successful minorities that are less likely to be native English speakers.
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    (Original post by DiddyDec)
    Really?

    I'm guessing they aren't very good unis then.
    Durham, for example do not interview all candidates for their English or Philosophy courses. Same with UCL and St Andrews.
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    (Original post by YellowWallpaper)
    Durham, for example do not interview all candidates for their English or Philosophy courses. Same with UCL and St Andrews.
    It is a completely alien concept to me. I have been interviewed for every school, college and university I have applied for since completing my CEs.
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    (Original post by Observatory)
    That is an interesting result and not one I would expect. I consider it good grounds for introducing name-blind applications.

    However, I still think it's important to point out that this is probably not the main or even an important source of disparity in university attendance between races, for precisely the reason that the better-performing groups don't suffer less and sometimes suffer more discrimination. The racial prejudice hypothesis predicts that discrimination based on name should line up with workplace success (I guess employers should discriminate against white British candidates in favour of Chinese). The study agrees on page 45 that racial prejudice is not important in determining labour market outcomes within the scope of the study:

    "On this evidence, it does not appear that differences in labour outcomes between ethnic minority groups are the result of discrimination in the application phase of the recruitment process. This is not to discount discrimination as an explanation, as there are other points in the recruitment process and while in employment where discrimination could operate differently for particular groups."

    One missed opportunity here is excluding a white non-British name category. It is possible that employers are using names as a proxy for actual (as opposed to claimed, or inferred from a CV that could have been edited by a third party) English skills. That would explain why less successful minorities that are more likely to be native English speakers are favoured ahead of more successful minorities that are less likely to be native English speakers.
    The authors don't make any claim why it happens.

    I would be interested in whether there was any disparity between selection by employers and selection by agents. There may be a "no-one was ever sacked for choosing IBM" issue. No employment agency was ever criticised for sending an able-bodied white male.
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    Solution to a non-existent problem. Suppose somebody at UCAS has to justify their title somehow...

    (Original post by somnacin)
    Hmm. I think this will actually help the middle / upper class, as universities will no longer take positive discrimination into consideration.
    Good. I don't expect to receive an advantage simply because I came from a ****ty area.
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    (Original post by DiddyDec)
    It is a completely alien concept to me. I have been interviewed for every school, college and university I have applied for since completing my CEs.
    Well, I know for certain that Durham University only recently decided not to interview all applicants for their English Literature course. Leeds are the same. Obviously, universities like Oxford, Cambridge, Imperial will probably want to see everyone before offering a place. It depends, really.
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    To quote Community: "Wow. I actually think not being racist is the new racism".

    I can see the principle behind it, I really can, but this is definitely more of a political move than a racial or educational one. And as everyone else has said, what do they think is going to happen when it comes to interviews? Is everyone going to have to interview in church confessionals with voice modulators?
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    (Original post by TwilightKnight)
    To quote Community: "Wow. I actually think not being racist is the new racism".

    I can see the principle behind it, I really can, but this is definitely more of a political move than a racial or educational one. And as everyone else has said, what do they think is going to happen when it comes to interviews? Is everyone going to have to interview in church confessionals with voice modulators?
    Hehe, I could imagine that in the future!

    Anyway, many universities and courses do not interview.

    But, assuming there is some bias, even those that do might see face-to-face many more /poor/male/black/whatever candidates than they ever used to get, and this in itself could reduce discrimination via mere familiarity or reducing stereotyping.

    Of course it won't stop all problem but it's clearly better to remove one potential opportunity for discrimination than not.
 
 
 
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