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Thoughts on the Womens' Equality Party? watch

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    This "party" sounds like something that just spawned from the under 18 year old side of twitter and tumblr.
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    (Original post by Freyjaeve)
    Some of you may know, there's a brand new political party aiming for total equality in the UK. They are not only trying to make the country better for women (although that is a key part of it) but also for men, people who are BAME, LGBT and basically everyone!

    Their policies document can be found here, I'm really interested as a founding member to see what you all think.
    You know, I was on my way home on the train yesterday and it was packed. I nearly gave up my seat for a woman who was stood uncomfortably in the isle. Just before I did I remembered about how women wanted equality with men and all that, so I let her stand for the rest of the 30 minute journey.
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    (Original post by scrotgrot)
    The thing is women DO have equal rights and equal pay. (What many submit they do not have is equal responsibilities!)

    Also, some equalities are more equal than others. It seems from other people's comments that the WEP supports quotas. This is equality of outcome, not of opportunity. Women entering the workforce since 1990, or under 40, have exactly equal pay with men and in fact better chances with education. Older women suffered from inequality of opportunity. However, their careers are mature, their CVs inferior: nothing can make it better for them. Therefore to equalise outcome across all women will require privileging younger women over younger men via the use of quotas.



    What is the WEP's stance on "cultural prejudice" faced by men, which is basically just as bad? How do you respond to the idea that some aspects of gender roles are impossible to change because they are innate rather than socialised: will the WEP attempt to force people to change them regardless?
    I don't think we're going to get anywhere here, I'm afraid. I believe, as do most, that women do not have equal rights, and it has been statistically proven that they don't have equal pay. You're never going to agree with me on this so I'm not going to try and convince you. It's been nice chatting. Goodnight.
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    (Original post by Romula)
    I don't think we're going to get anywhere here, I'm afraid. I believe, as do most, that women do not have equal rights, and it has been statistically proven that they don't have equal pay. You're never going to agree with me on this so I'm not going to try and convince you. It's been nice chatting. Goodnight.
    Yikes, well that attitude ain't gonna win you many friends.

    The WEP document itself acknowledges that the pay gap "widens" for women over 50. It certainly does: from about zero to about fifteen per cent.

    Of course, it doesn't single out how pay per hour excluding overtime across all jobs is equal for men and women under 40. Only that thanks to the older women overall there is the oft quoted ~9% pay gap.

    I'm so sorry, but you've been lied to: it just doesn't exist for our generation - and older generations are beyond help as their CVs have already suffered.

    As for equal rights, could you lay out what rights before the law men have that women don't? I can think of a good few the other way round, so you'd better be forthcoming.
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    (Original post by Romula)
    I don't think we're going to get anywhere here, I'm afraid. I believe, as do most, that women do not have equal rights, and it has been statistically proven that they don't have equal pay. You're never going to agree with me on this so I'm not going to try and convince you. It's been nice chatting. Goodnight.
    :lol:
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    (Original post by Josb)
    :lol:
    I was going to post exactly the same thing before I saw your comment
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    (Original post by SaltyCucumber)
    If you're aiming for total equality then naming yourselves the Women's Equality Party seems rather odd. I recognise that most of the issues surrounding gender are to do with female inequality but they're sending the wrong kind of message out with that name. Why not simply the Equality Party?
    Exactly what I was thinking.
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    (Original post by Romula)
    I don't think we're going to get anywhere here, I'm afraid. I believe, as do most, that women do not have equal rights, and it has been statistically proven that they don't have equal pay. You're never going to agree with me on this so I'm not going to try and convince you. It's been nice chatting. Goodnight.
    Statistics can lie, and be manipulated such as in this situation.

    And numbers do not take into context.

    So do you really think the reason why women dont get the same jobs as men is just sexism? I have actually known women to try and sue companies as they cant get it around their head even in low paid jobs that they were not the best applicant, they all screamed sexism,

    We are in a blaming society now, and the worst person to be is a white male, if not even further a single young white male, I read a local article that stated a 12 year old boy slapped a girl on her bottom which is horrible and people agree he should be punished but a CRIMINAL investigation is underhand as its seen as sexual assault, meanwhile in the same town there is a high rate of burgularies going unpunished, MEN attacked in public which is ignored, hey a while back a male student was mugged in public on a Saturday afternoon by train station and police didnt get involved as they said (despite numerous witnesses and loads of CCTV) it would be hard to catch the person yet they are wasting money on a young woman getting her ass slapped when I had that in public before or even from female bosses and told to man up (and I am a gay autistic male so I can play the gay disability card if you try and argue)

    And where do you stand on recently released statistics that show men under 30/35 are worse off than women, or since women get the better end of the deal you ignore that.

    Its a small world if you blank out everything you disagree with and saying things you ignore dont exist but things you claim to be true suddenly do exist.
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    (Original post by Freyjaeve;[url="tel:60186417")
    60186417[/url]]Some of you may know, there's a brand new political party aiming for total equality in the UK. They are not only trying to make the country better for women (although that is a key part of it) but also for men, people who are BAME, LGBT and basically everyone!

    Their policies document can be found here, I'm really interested as a founding member to see what you all think.
    The seeking equality for everyone is such a cop out so that it can seen as not been the other side of the coin it claims its fighting against. I doubt this party will ever support any policies that aren't sided with women. Especially considering it has women in its title. Why not the egalitarian party?

    Truth is you can't back every sides issues since a lot of the issues are in direct competition. Women's activists are fighting for legalisation than many men's activists are fighting against etc. The worlds isn't that black and white and equality is a relative term anyway what I consider equal probably differs from what you think it is.

    Every feminist and women's activist I have ever spoken to has said they want equality for everyone. Yet not once have I seen them fighting for an issue that wasn't pretty much exclusively a feminist one. When I see the women's equality party protesting against for example higher sentencing of male offenders in virtually every crime I may believe that it isn't just a cop out.
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    (Original post by Freyjaeve)
    Or I personally dislike him, and certain policies of his. I'm allowed to have my own political opinions thanks.
    what policies don't you like ?
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    (Original post by demx9)
    what policies don't you like ?
    He has a penis.
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    Sounds cool. I will be checking them out. So far, I'm in support of this.
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    (Original post by Romula)
    I don't think we're going to get anywhere here, I'm afraid. I believe, as do most, that women do not have equal rights, and it has been statistically proven that they don't have equal pay. You're never going to agree with me on this so I'm not going to try and convince you. It's been nice chatting. Goodnight.
    Factually incorrect.

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    (Original post by Romula)
    I don't think we're going to get anywhere here, I'm afraid. I believe, as do most, that women do not have equal rights, and it has been statistically proven that they don't have equal pay. You're never going to agree with me on this so I'm not going to try and convince you. It's been nice chatting. Goodnight.
    Sorry to burst your bubble but women under the age of 35 earn more than men, those statistics aren't really disputable, they are as legitimate as the ones years ago claiming the opposite. Regardless, you can't be paid less if you have the same job under the same employer, that's illegal and has been since 1970.
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    (Original post by Romula)
    I don't think we're going to get anywhere here, I'm afraid. I believe, as do most, that women do not have equal rights, and it has been statistically proven that they don't have equal pay. You're never going to agree with me on this so I'm not going to try and convince you. It's been nice chatting. Goodnight.
    In Saudi Arabia perhaps.
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    (Original post by Freyjaeve)
    Nice to see someone else involved! Exactly, this is what we need to stop!
    (Original post by Romula)
    IKR! I love it when they mention the 1950s- like "listen, babe, you can leave the kitchen, okay? Now STOP WHINING ALREADY!"
    Let's get this right... Your main aims are to enforce equal parenting responsibilities; to tell parents how to raise their children and provide for their family. You believe that the media currently reflects a poor image of women and encourages violence against them.

    Is this true?

    If so, do you realise that what you are proposing on a governmental scale is what is known as fascism? You believe that the nation is more important than the family unit: the individual. You wish to strip away all aspects of freedom that remain, and for what? The belief that the government can fix social issues by force. I think you are too naive to be part of a political party. Your arguments demanding state action are based on emotion and not facts.
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    Guys. Seriously.

    I disagree with you on stats with respect to the pay gap. I disagree with you on most things, to be honest. But I still wanted to talk to you. To debate with you. To learn from your views and attempt to help you learn in turn.

    Then one of you called me a fascist, and now I'm really not sure what you came here to achieve. Was it just... to shout at me? To make me change my views? Because I nearly did. I accept your points about higher proportions of men working in low-paid menial jobs. I went and re-checked the pay gap stats. I considered what feminism must look like from the perspective of young, angry men and looked at it again.

    And then you insulted me. And all that hard work was gone.

    I'm doing this as a check. If you really want to debate constructively and informatively, perhaps you will soften your language. If not... well. You probably won't, so I'll let subsequent posts demonstrate for me.
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    (Original post by Romula)
    Guys. Seriously.

    I disagree with you on stats with respect to the pay gap. I disagree with you on most things, to be honest. But I still wanted to talk to you. To debate with you. To learn from your views and attempt to help you learn in turn.

    Then one of you called me a fascist, and now I'm really not sure what you came here to achieve. Was it just... to shout at me? To make me change my views? Because I nearly did. I accept your points about higher proportions of men working in low-paid menial jobs. I went and re-checked the pay gap stats. I considered what feminism must look like from the perspective of young, angry men and looked at it again.

    And then you insulted me. And all that hard work was gone.

    I'm doing this as a check. If you really want to debate constructively and informatively, perhaps you will soften your language. If not... well. You probably won't, so I'll let subsequent posts demonstrate for me.
    His definition of fascism was a bit simplistic, but fascism isn't necessarily an insult: it's a distinct political position. A better word for him to have used would be totalitarian or authoritarian, however it's clear to me that the attempt was to use fascist in a primarily technical sense rather than a rhetorical one.

    You would do well to stop using trigger words like "young angry men" yourself, but I'm not precious enough to ***** about it. In general, our language will not be softened to preserve people's feels. We will say what we mean, no more, no less, and I for one will not insult anyone.

    On what grounds do you disagree with, for example, my assessment of the pay gap statistics? I don't see that there is any room for an opinion on the matter. The only question left to settle is is the change due to being 40 years old - i.e. having kids - or is it due to starting work after 1990.

    If the first, legislate for mandatory equal parental leave, ideally three to six months for each parent. If the second, do nothing and come back in 20 years to see the pay gap eliminated even for the oldest women.

    I say it is to do with 1990 not kids, as most women still have kids well before age 40 and the age has been creeping up over the ~5 years I have been looking into it.
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    this party seems berserk simply by the name - seriously - what the **** would this party be looking for in legislation? how much more do they want to recede men's rights? women already have MORE rights, and if they want "equality" as their goal, then they'd better change the name of their party to "men's equality", not women's. or they could just tell the truth and admit that they want to install a matriarchy-esque society, or rather, a more matriarchal society than today, seeing as we live in a quasi-matriarchy at the moment vis-a-vis a social narrative of female-excellence / victimhood, and male awfulness / aggression (etc)
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    (Original post by Romula)
    Guys. Seriously.

    I disagree with you on stats with respect to the pay gap. I disagree with you on most things, to be honest. But I still wanted to talk to you. To debate with you. To learn from your views and attempt to help you learn in turn.

    Then one of you called me a fascist, and now I'm really not sure what you came here to achieve. Was it just... to shout at me? To make me change my views? Because I nearly did. I accept your points about higher proportions of men working in low-paid menial jobs. I went and re-checked the pay gap stats. I considered what feminism must look like from the perspective of young, angry men and looked at it again.

    And then you insulted me. And all that hard work was gone.

    I'm doing this as a check. If you really want to debate constructively and informatively, perhaps you will soften your language. If not... well. You probably won't, so I'll let subsequent posts demonstrate for me.
    So you have already said that women do not have equal legal rights, but you never said what they were. So what legal rights are women not afforded?
 
 
 
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