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    How to start an argument online:

    State your opinion. Then wait.
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    (Original post by ZoëC)
    Where do you see humanity in 1000 years?
    on Earth?
    somewhere else?
    extinct (maybe for the best)?
    If Humanity goes extinct, who exactly would benefit? We are so embedded in the ecosystems of the world that there'd be a massive extinction event. Eventually, life on Earth will all die. Humanity is life's ticket off Earth, to spread to other, lifeless, planets.
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    (Original post by WoodyMKC)
    To get to my local town centre by bus, I have to walk 5 minutes down the road and then catch the bus, which stops at several stops, and the overall journey takes 20-30 minutes depending on traffic. If I drive there myself, taking a different route by which the buses don't run, the journey takes 5 minutes total. Obviously, 10x shorter as the other guy put it is an overstatement, and if you're going cross-country then a train is going to be faster, but within your local towns, owning a car is always going to be quicker and so much less hassle.
    A train is rarely faster unless you're going into or out of central London.
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    (Original post by Johann von Gauss)
    Was going to post my own rant, but this guy summarises it nicely:

    http://www.internationalskeptics.com...d.php?t=142043

    If we care so much about the environment, why not ban cars entirely, and have a good network of public transport? It works in many European cities. People in rural areas need cars you say? Move them to cities. Trains are prone to union action? They don't need human drivers any more.

    Ever since the invention of the car, population density in cities in the West has decreased. Infrastructure built for cars reduced space for human habitation and services in cities. A thousand people making the same journey in cars spews out more pollution, and takes up more space, than the same number of people in buses, or trains.

    At the moment we are targeting industry with emission cuts, at huge cost to society, but we could instead ban cars; imagine the fall in emissions.

    Electric cars are not a saviour; most electricity is not renewable; if it were, then it would be expensive or from nuclear sources.
    Forcing people to live in cities against their will and remove their personal transport is ridiculous and highly authoritarian, and would destroy the entire rural economy. I'm not aware of any European country that has banned cars, so your claim that "it works in other countries" is baseless.

    You'll have to prize my car keys and driving license from my cold, dead hands.
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    (Original post by RFowler)
    I'm not aware of any European country that has banned cars, so your claim that "it works in other countries" is baseless..
    Not countries, but some cities have banned cars in large parts of the city, which doesn't result in the chaos that people are claiming it will.
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    (Original post by Johann von Gauss)
    Not countries, but some cities have banned cars in large parts of the city, which doesn't result in the chaos that people are claiming it will.
    You can still use cars to get around the city, and get out of that city to go somewhere else. Completely different to the total ban and forced urbanisation you're proposing, which would not work for all sorts of reasons that lots of people have already brought up.
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    (Original post by RFowler)
    You can still use cars to get around the city, and get out of that city to go somewhere else. Completely different to the total ban and forced urbanisation you're proposing, which would not work for all sorts of reasons that lots of people have already brought up.
    Oh, I agree it will never happen, at least not in a democracy, but it seems that if cars had never been advocated as transport for everyone, things would run a lot smoother.
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    We cannot live without cars. Best bet is to go electric and shift our national power supply toward sustainable sources.
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    The most overrated maybe, but not quite the worst; technology in and of itself is neither good nor bad, how you use it is what matters.

    Banning cars would be impossible even if it weren't ridiculously authoritarian, and while I'm pretty sure the vast majority of people could manage quiet well without a car, there are nevertheless going to be a few who really do need one.

    As others have said, the solution isn't to ban cars but to deemphasize them by encouraging people to walk, cycle, telecommute, use PT, ride motorcycles, carpool, etc. I daresay doing so would actually make life easier for people who really do need to drive since the roads would be much less congested.
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    (Original post by Johann von Gauss)
    Electric cars do a lot of harm to the environment; electricity isn't just created from thin air, it is created by burning coal, oil, gas, a fraction of it from renewables. The point is, public transport is so much more efficient; the same fuel/electricity it takes to power a few cars could power a bus, but a bus carries more people
    And petrol/diesel is created from thin air? You should look up the refining process for crude oil see how much non-renewable electricity that uses.....

    (Original post by tazarooni89)
    What if we don't actually care that much about the environment?
    I hope that's hypothetical, it actually saddens me a lot that people don't see they are sawing through the branch they sit on.

    (Original post by Masih ad-Dajjal)
    It's weird but this is my opinion.


    I live in a nice area with clean air and no congestion, but overall I care much more about a strong economy than all the *******s about saving the environment, at the same time, I do believe that electric cars will become mainstream and technology will save us anyway.
    Now this is interesting see, because I know an affluent, nice village that refused having two wind turbines placed on a hill nearby (they would only be able to see the very tops of them) because it would be an eyesore and lower their house prices etc etc.

    Yet, other people have to live with coal fired or nuclear power stations near them, to provide electricity for those in the village.

    This reeks of such hypocracy and nimbyism, maybe the village should do without electricity for a few weeks and maybe then they would be greateful someone is willing to build a turbing nearby.

    If we moved you from you nice town to a polluted area, i'm sure you'd start caring pretty quickly.

    BTW: 'transport' as a catagory is a hugh contributor to global climate and pollution in general. Diesel cars, because of their numeracy as well are truely aweful for air quality. I remind you also that money is worthless by comparison to the environment.

    Cars are good, but also pretty terrible. They dominate whole areas, streets etc. The problems they have are, like a lot of things exacerbated by population.

    I'd like to see more cycle and padestian only routes with more padestrianised city and town centres where only bicycles and people are allowed

    Trams are an ingenious invention and replacement for cars on a town scale too.
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    (Original post by Pegasus2)

    Now this is interesting see, because I know an affluent, nice village that refused having two wind turbines placed on a hill nearby (they would only be able to see the very tops of them) because it would be an eyesore and lower their house prices etc etc.

    Yet, other people have to live with coal fired or nuclear power stations near them, to provide electricity for those in the village.

    This reeks of such hypocracy and nimbyism, maybe the village should do without electricity for a few weeks and maybe then they would be greateful someone is willing to build a turbing nearby.

    If we moved you from you nice town to a polluted area, i'm sure you'd start caring pretty quickly.

    BTW: 'transport' as a catagory is a hugh contributor to global climate and pollution in general. Diesel cars, because of their numeracy as well are truely aweful for air quality. I remind you also that money is worthless by comparison to the environment.

    Cars are good, but also pretty terrible. They dominate whole areas, streets etc. The problems they have are, like a lot of things exacerbated by population.

    I'd like to see more cycle and padestian only routes with more padestrianised city and town centres where only bicycles and people are allowed

    Trams are an ingenious invention and replacement for cars on a town scale too.
    This sums up my town.


    It's a nice place but it's full of utter tossers who vote Tory and think that they're amazing people for inheriting wealth.
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    (Original post by Pegasus2)
    And petrol/diesel is created from thin air? You should look up the refining process for crude oil see how much non-renewable electricity that uses.....
    :facepalm: My point was that electric cars are not the best solution.
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    (Original post by Johann von Gauss)
    :facepalm: My point was that electric cars are not the best solution.
    One of the main advantages of the car is its ability to go destination to destination at any time.

    They are a pretty good solution given another 10 years development, although still not the entire solution.

    You say the same electricity could be used to power a bus, well the electricity used to refine the fuel for a diesel car or bus before it's even burnt (for 40% efficiency) could be used by the electric car to complete the journey with 90% efficiency, effectively halving you energy and pollution costs for transport in a single sweep.

    If you have a solar array on your roof you can charge from that for nothing. Companies could install them for their staff to charge them during the day. It's almost as if there arn't any drawbacks.

    Not to mention no emissions at source, no soot or particulates and no brake dust. It's also far, far more efficient and easier to control emissions at a power station than it is for every car on the road.
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    (Original post by Pegasus2)
    I hope that's hypothetical, it actually saddens me a lot that people don't see they are sawing through the branch they sit on.
    It's not hypothetical. The world has to end or become uninhabitable some time. We can't prevent it, we can only delay the inevitable. But what's the need? Someone has to experience the end of the world, so what does it matter to us whether it happens 10 generations from now or 100 generations from now?
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    (Original post by Johann von Gauss)
    We ban lots of dangerous items - guns, chemicals, drugs - and cars should be no different, seeing as they are destroying the entire flipping planet!
    (Original post by Johann von Gauss)
    Not really, unless you live in the middle of nowhere, since trains are considerably faster than cars.
    (Original post by Johann von Gauss)
    Heavy duty vacuum cleaners are useful, but have been banned by EU for environmental reasons. If they are banned, why not cars?!
    (Original post by Johann von Gauss)
    You could walk... which, if you are eating from McDonals, you probably should do
    (Original post by Johann von Gauss)
    Jobs and the economy... using this logic, we should be glad for the existence of the mafia, since they employ people!

    Cost of living in cities is high, but so is the price of driving everywhere.
    rofl at all of these arguments :rofl:
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    (Original post by Johann von Gauss)
    Is that the only argument for the existence of cars? We ban lots of dangerous items - guns, chemicals, drugs - and cars should be no different, seeing as they are destroying the entire flipping planet!
    SHUT UP YOU TART!


    Our planet is still relatively intact even after countless hits from asteroids. If you look at the Moon, Mercury and other solar system bodies that have had little weathering or geological activity then you will have an idea of how much the Earth has been struck in the past. One asteroid was so big it wiped out some dinosaurs, caused catastrophic climate change which wiped out the rest, plus other plants and animals. Cars only cause mild climate change.

    You would be bloody daft to argue that a car is more dangerous than a nuclear bomb. Well a few nukes have been set off aswell. Im sure if you YOUTUBE "tsar bomb" or "nuclear explosions" you will find that in fact, our planet is pretty tough. Tough enough that driving cars will not actually cause the Earth to disintegrate (unlike EVERY asteroid that hit it, and an asteroid is way tougher than a car!).

    Its quite possible that Shoemaker-Levy 9 (wtf named it that?!) could have destroyed our entire flippin planet, but it didnt hit our planet. If anything cars are more likely to kill off plebkind than anything else.
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    (Original post by Laomedeia)
    SHUT UP YOU TART!


    Our planet is still relatively intact even after countless hits from asteroids. If you look at the Moon, Mercury and other solar system bodies that have had little weathering or geological activity then you will have an idea of how much the Earth has been struck in the past. One asteroid was so big it wiped out some dinosaurs, caused catastrophic climate change which wiped out the rest, plus other plants and animals. Cars only cause mild climate change.

    You would be bloody daft to argue that a car is more dangerous than a nuclear bomb. Well a few nukes have been set off aswell. Im sure if you YOUTUBE "tsar bomb" or "nuclear explosions" you will find that in fact, our planet is pretty tough. Tough enough that driving cars will not actually cause the Earth to disintegrate (unlike EVERY asteroid that hit it, and an asteroid is way tougher than a car!).

    Its quite possible that Shoemaker-Levy 9 (wtf named it that?!) could have destroyed our entire flippin planet, but it didnt hit our planet. If anything cars are more likely to kill off plebkind than anything else.
    Just because our planet has survived a certain amount of damage, you tart, does not mean that it can survive any amount of damage
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    (Original post by Johann von Gauss)
    Not really, unless you live in the middle of nowhere, since trains are considerably faster than cars.
    Which I do, and I would sooner die than be moved to city like you suggest. So you can shove your idea.
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    (Original post by Johann von Gauss)
    Just because our planet has survived a certain amount of damage, you tart, does not mean that it can survive any amount of damage
    True. A black hole, supernova or certain other huge astronomic event could destroy it. There isnt much tho, and absolutely nothing yet that man could do to physically destroy our planet, or even our Moon which would be considerably easier.
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    (Original post by Laomedeia)
    True. A black hole, supernova or certain other huge astronomic event could destroy it. There isnt much tho, and absolutely nothing yet that man could do to physically destroy our planet, or even our Moon which would be considerably easier.
    It is quite obvious I am referring to the ability of the planet to support human life.
 
 
 
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