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Prospects for young people 'have worsened' says report watch

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    (Original post by Jimbo1234)
    Ah, so much ignorance in one comment.
    So please tell me the average price increase of houses from the year 2000. Now what about average salary? And now explain how those two are linked and how to solve it.
    :rolleyes:
    Your ad hominem is tedious, please stick to the point of the thread. If you want to know other stuff, make a new thread.
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    (Original post by somethingbeautiful)
    I'd like to be optimistic and hope that things are on the up for young people in this country, but things have been pretty dismal for quite a few years and that won't magically just lift. I have to say, looking around me at my own generation - from the people I went to school/college/university with and now to the people of my age that I work with, most of them of my age (or there about) that I can see around me are definitely struggling. I know some very intelligent and hardworking people who are unemployed or working in very low paid jobs - degree educated individuals. But then, I think maybe that's a universal truth of almost all 20-30 year old's who are trying to find their feet and who don't come from a privileged background. It takes time to climb the ladder and figure things out so hopefully things will straighten out in our 30s. But it does seem odd, looking around at your circle of friends and seeing so many bright people out of work or doing jobs that they're overqualified for. I know a few of us who are considering leaving the UK and a couple of friends who left when the recession really dug it's claws in around 2010/11. It's seems like the only sensible thing to do really since the jobs just aren't in abundance here.

    As for the outlook of the younger generation - it doesn't look that great at the moment but in the current economy, I'd say stay in education for as long as possible and get a trade or if you go to uni then do something with a high employment rate which qualifies you for life and something that is in demand in other 1st world countries. There's always your spare time to do your hobbies, I wouldn't waste the opportunity to go to uni on a subject with no real employment prospects. As for housing, once you've got your useful qualification, look for work up North - there are a lot of affordable houses in decent places if you're willing to relocate. It does seem like we're the generation of compromise. You might not get what you've always dreamed of but it's better than having nothing at all. The thing is, the amount of work that you'll put it to get the bare minimum would have got you a lot more 20/30 years ago.
    Good advice, with the current economy younger people must choose degrees that will guarantee them jobs for when they graduate because when you have a degree you can't do an apprenticeship, you might not have enough experience so really they'll be stuck
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    (Original post by Maker)
    Your ad hominem is tedious, please stick to the point of the thread. If you want to know other stuff, make a new thread.
    And that right there is denial. You are simply ignoring the problems and just saying "Vote!" is the solution. As I showed, you don't know much about this topic and then refuse to contribute to it or add anything of substance. The points I raised are directly related, but you already know that. You just don't want to admit it or deal with them.
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    I've been reading the debate about people having it easier out of school a few years ago and the university educated today but i feel the need to point out that even before the new crop of apprenticeships, it was entirely possible to do well out of school.

    Of me and 4 other close friends until a few years ago (all now 25/26) we have a good sample and some surprising results..

    Friend 1 - A* GCSE student did history at Manchester (2'1) and the result was that he worked in bars until 2014. Now works in public sector admin on a wage below £20k.

    Friend 2 - Did Sociology at Ex Poly (2'1) and for the last few years has been teaching English in South Korea and Hong Kong. No idea what the pay is like but he's never been out of work since graduating in 2012.

    Friend 3 - Worked in retail and bars before coming to university and doing Economics at an Ex Poly (2'2) and the result was a few failed admin interviews and eventual retail job.

    Friend 4 - Went to Zenos Academy after some retail work, has been working as an IT Assistant in a school since 2008, on £21k (reckons he'd get more in the private sector now he's a got a few years behind him).

    Friend 5 - Worked part time in retail while doing AS levels then worked as a parts consultant and then fleet manager. Result is that he now has his own property and earns above the UK average.

    So interestingly the guys who went to uni (even the one who did it all by the book) have all performed worse to this age than the guys who stayed out education for the most part.

    Just an observation from a past friendship group.
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    (Original post by Jimbo1234)
    How's Greece doing?

    Building homes? Please tell me how many homes the UK is short of per year and how many are being built under this new initiative.
    Removing the deficit assuming a) taxes grow at the predicted rate (which they didn't last time), b) budget cuts actually get made into law.
    What immigration reform are they bringing in and what change has happened since they last made that promise?
    etc. etc

    No party in this country is willing to rock the boat and do what is needed. Instead they think a bit of tape and glue will plug a mile wide hole.
    I was agreeing with you. Just being sarcastic to the "well vote then" guy. I agree demcoracy doesn't work. I listed promises that have all been broken, I thought that was clear...
    Nevermind.
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    (Original post by i<3milkshake)
    No; vote Labour and allow mass immigration which can see wages stay low, housing prices and rents stay nice and high. They will also personally see to it that we don't create any jobs so that competition can be even more difficult.

    Amaright>?
    You described an issue/problem with regards to economic class in your OP. You described a situation where there are those who can already afford or already own property you can abuse that position to corner renters. Banks can makes epic amounts of profit from mortgage inflation (which is arguably a much bigger effect on house prices than immigration). One section of society benefits at the expense of another. Yet you scorn any political solution put forward that has any routes in class conscience based politics. Why is that?

    I wasn't particularly saying you should vote labour. More why do you defend the Tories? The party of the renters in every way possible. Can they rely on your vote and exasperate the problems you described in OP by appearing tough on immigrants? Incidentally the Tories have not actually been tough on immigration, again the problems you think immigrants cause alludes to immigrants being used a tool to conduct a class war on sections of society to benefit another...

    You then go on the usual the Tories are good for the economy line. But in what way? Your OP describes an unfair and ever more rigged economy. The Tories are presiding over that yet you defend them? How is that not cognitive dissonance?

    You wont agree with me but you are an example of someone who have see a problem but can be very easily manipulated to vote for the people that defend that problem from being fixed.

    SO we can;t vote labour because they are the part of immigrants. We can;t vote Tory because they are the party of the renter. Who can we vote for? Would you vote for a protectionist Bennite Labour that closed our borders?
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    (Original post by i<3milkshake)
    I was agreeing with you. Just being sarcastic to the "well vote then" guy. I agree demcoracy doesn't work. I listed promises that have all been broken, I thought that was clear...
    Nevermind.
    Haha, well I think that sums up the state of British politics. I never follow what is said as it always changes/never gets done. I think the one thing the recession has shown (but everyone has ignored) is that democracy doesn't work very well nowadays. Economies are too complex for random people to run it, especially when said people are only looking 4-5 years into the future.
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    (Original post by Jimbo1234)
    Haha, well I think that sums up the state of British politics. I never follow what is said as it always changes/never gets done. I think the one thing the recession has shown (but everyone has ignored) is that democracy doesn't work very well nowadays. Economies are too complex for random people to run it, especially when said people are only looking 4-5 years into the future.
    The guy who says "vote for who you want, then complain" clearly doesn't remember the Lib Dem student fees fiasco...
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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    I've been reading the debate about people having it easier out of school a few years ago and the university educated today but i feel the need to point out that even before the new crop of apprenticeships, it was entirely possible to do well out of school.

    Of me and 4 other close friends until a few years ago (all now 25/26) we have a good sample and some surprising results..

    Friend 1 - A* GCSE student did history at Manchester (2'1) and the result was that he worked in bars until 2014. Now works in public sector admin on a wage below £20k.

    Friend 2 - Did Sociology at Ex Poly (2'1) and for the last few years has been teaching English in South Korea and Hong Kong. No idea what the pay is like but he's never been out of work since graduating in 2012.

    Friend 3 - Worked in retail and bars before coming to university and doing Economics at an Ex Poly (2'2) and the result was a few failed admin interviews and eventual retail job.

    Friend 4 - Went to Zenos Academy after some retail work, has been working as an IT Assistant in a school since 2008, on £21k (reckons he'd get more in the private sector now he's a got a few years behind him).

    Friend 5 - Worked part time in retail while doing AS levels then worked as a parts consultant and then fleet manager. Result is that he now has his own property and earns above the UK average.

    So interestingly the guys who went to uni (even the one who did it all by the book) have all performed worse to this age than the guys who stayed out education for the most part.

    Just an observation from a past friendship group.
    Yes because your group of friends clearly reflects reality.

    GCSE's mean nothing. They really aren't that hard. Also History. There are very very few jobs that a history degree unlocks which can't be achieved with other degrees. Getting a 2.2 is pretty much a death sentence in terms of employment.


    Academic success doesn't necessarily translate to a successful career which isn't anything people didn't know...
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    I don't understand. People choose accept to study at a uni that doesn't have great employment prospects or a course which doesn't lead to any employment come complaining after that they're unemployed...
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    I'd say no **** to the opening post and most of it stems from too many graduates thanks labour

    Not enough houses for the amount of people thanks labour


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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    I've been reading the debate about people having it easier out of school a few years ago and the university educated today but i feel the need to point out that even before the new crop of apprenticeships, it was entirely possible to do well out of school.

    Of me and 4 other close friends until a few years ago (all now 25/26) we have a good sample and some surprising results..

    Friend 1 - A* GCSE student did history at Manchester (2'1) and the result was that he worked in bars until 2014. Now works in public sector admin on a wage below £20k.

    Friend 2 - Did Sociology at Ex Poly (2'1) and for the last few years has been teaching English in South Korea and Hong Kong. No idea what the pay is like but he's never been out of work since graduating in 2012.

    Friend 3 - Worked in retail and bars before coming to university and doing Economics at an Ex Poly (2'2) and the result was a few failed admin interviews and eventual retail job.

    Friend 4 - Went to Zenos Academy after some retail work, has been working as an IT Assistant in a school since 2008, on £21k (reckons he'd get more in the private sector now he's a got a few years behind him).

    Friend 5 - Worked part time in retail while doing AS levels then worked as a parts consultant and then fleet manager. Result is that he now has his own property and earns above the UK average.

    So interestingly the guys who went to uni (even the one who did it all by the book) have all performed worse to this age than the guys who stayed out education for the most part.

    Just an observation from a past friendship group.
    A degree more often than not will
    Merely open the door to get to the interview stage. With so many more people doing degrees now it's hard to differentiate between people.

    I think we're getting back to the stage that a good vocational training and apprenticeship is going to pay docents in the future now as we have so many degree subjects now we've now got to the stage of having degrees in nappy changing for child minders.

    One other point to kite that people seem to forget, you're not going to graduate at 21-22 and walk into a high paid job. It takes years to build up to it.
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    (Original post by Incongruous)
    Yes because your group of friends clearly reflects reality.

    GCSE's mean nothing. They really aren't that hard. Also History. There are very very few jobs that a history degree unlocks which can't be achieved with other degrees. Getting a 2.2 is pretty much a death sentence in terms of employment.

    Academic success doesn't necessarily translate to a successful career which isn't anything people didn't know...
    I don't know how normal that group experience was, I just found it interesting and relevant to the debate.

    True points.

    (Original post by MatureStudent36)
    A degree more often than not will
    Merely open the door to get to the interview stage. With so many more people doing degrees now it's hard to differentiate between people.

    I think we're getting back to the stage that a good vocational training and apprenticeship is going to pay docents in the future now as we have so many degree subjects now we've now got to the stage of having degrees in nappy changing for child minders.

    One other point to kite that people seem to forget, you're not going to graduate at 21-22 and walk into a high paid job. It takes years to build up to it.
    Yes, looking at job vacancies these days the range of apprentiships is much superior and more interesting than 5-10 years ago when admin was about the only decent one. With stuff like digital and even HR apprentiships I think the likes of my brother who'll finish GCSE's in 2017 have a much better choice in that regard. The two mentioned for example lead to well paid careers and were traditionally the preserve of the degree.

    One other thing to think of is that people are too snobby with jobs at times. I'd have probably still gone to uni purely because I'm interested in stuff like politics and economics but having worked full time in retail and bars before uni, its probably fair to say that I'd have been in management by now. Plenty of people who leave may have missed a trick since moving to certain companies can yield good pay. Aldi and Pret a Manager for example have manager salaries around 40k and the later is just a coffee shop.
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    I count myself as one of the lucky few. 19, no student debt, training to become an officer in the navy on a sponsored degree with strong employment prospects. Would I say its for everyone? No, of course not. The best things in life are sought by the fewest people. You have to be smart and cunning. Id argue that the university generation have got the bad end of the stick and that those who got higher leve apprenticeships in IT and Engineering will be infinitely better off. Its not to say university isnt worth it, its worth the effort if you're doing medicine, engineering, vet science and computer science otherwise don't waste your time if you're not THE best, you'll merely delaying underemployment/unemployment whilst being chained down by student debt
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    (Original post by TimmonaPortella)
    You understand that when you make a deposit in a bank, you are lending it money, right? Why do you think they pay interest? Are they just really generous organisations at heart?

    It's not your money. It's the bank's money to do with as it pleases. All you have is a debt obligation.



    I-i-it's not fair! When I finish my long years of education completely paid for by other people, and I have been financially supported through university with other people's money, I m-might have to pay some bits of it back one day, and I'm not even immediately entitled to £9 an hour for whatever I do!
    ....

    with other people's money.

    Which 'other people'??? Who would suffer a loss, were the 'debt' not repaid??
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    (Original post by nixy49)
    ....




    Which 'other people'??? Who would suffer a loss, were the 'debt' not repaid??
    The taxpayer.
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    (Original post by Maker)
    You can vote in local elections and the EU referendum. Get your friends to vote too, otherwise you will be ignored.
    Don't worry - I will be!
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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    I've been reading the debate about people having it easier out of school a few years ago and the university educated today but i feel the need to point out that even before the new crop of apprenticeships, it was entirely possible to do well out of school.

    Of me and 4 other close friends until a few years ago (all now 25/26) we have a good sample and some surprising results..

    Friend 1 - A* GCSE student did history at Manchester (2'1) and the result was that he worked in bars until 2014. Now works in public sector admin on a wage below £20k.

    Friend 2 - Did Sociology at Ex Poly (2'1) and for the last few years has been teaching English in South Korea and Hong Kong. No idea what the pay is like but he's never been out of work since graduating in 2012.

    Friend 3 - Worked in retail and bars before coming to university and doing Economics at an Ex Poly (2'2) and the result was a few failed admin interviews and eventual retail job.

    Friend 4 - Went to Zenos Academy after some retail work, has been working as an IT Assistant in a school since 2008, on £21k (reckons he'd get more in the private sector now he's a got a few years behind him).

    Friend 5 - Worked part time in retail while doing AS levels then worked as a parts consultant and then fleet manager. Result is that he now has his own property and earns above the UK average.

    So interestingly the guys who went to uni (even the one who did it all by the book) have all performed worse to this age than the guys who stayed out education for the most part.

    Just an observation from a past friendship group.
    Your examples of uni friends sound pretty much the same as my friends who went to uni (plus the few who are unemployed). The one thing they have in common? Arts/Humanities degrees. People with vocational degrees like Medicine or Nursing etc are much less likely to be working in retail/bars etc 3 years on from graduating.

    (Original post by marco14196)
    I count myself as one of the lucky few. 19, no student debt, training to become an officer in the navy on a sponsored degree with strong employment prospects. Would I say its for everyone? No, of course not. The best things in life are sought by the fewest people. You have to be smart and cunning. Id argue that the university generation have got the bad end of the stick and that those who got higher leve apprenticeships in IT and Engineering will be infinitely better off. Its not to say university isnt worth it, its worth the effort if you're doing medicine, engineering, vet science and computer science otherwise don't waste your time if you're not THE best, you'll merely delaying underemployment/unemployment whilst being chained down by student debt
    I agree, however, I'd say that that list is not exhaustive - I'd include every NHS funded degree too (OT/Physio/Radiography/Nursing etc)
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    (Original post by somethingbeautiful)
    Your examples of uni friends sound pretty much the same as my friends who went to uni (plus the few who are unemployed). The one thing they have in common? Arts/Humanities degrees. People with vocational degrees like Medicine or Nursing etc are much less likely to be working in retail/bars etc 3 years on from graduating.



    I agree, however, I'd say that that list is not exhaustive - I'd include every NHS funded degree too (OT/Physio/Radiography/Nursing etc)
    *Facepalm* I forgot about those, thanks for mentioning them. If you can get on one of those programs, you can do pretty well for yourself and you're contributing pretty largely to society as well. I have the utmost respect for the health service of this nation.
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    (Original post by i<3milkshake)
    The guy who says "vote for who you want, then complain" clearly doesn't remember the Lib Dem student fees fiasco...
    Apart from the fact the LDs have lost almost all their MPs.
 
 
 
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