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    (Original post by Anna_S)
    so Pluto previously being a planet was a hypothesis?
    correct me if i am wrong
    Pluto is still classed as a dwarf-planet.
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    Didn't read but guessing it is something about God not existing....... Finally something i agree on



    ATHEISTS UNITED. Being religious is worse than being racist or homophobic or sexist......
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    Pluto is still classed as a dwarf-planet.
    It is not actually a planet, because of its size and its location, it is just classified under the name of a dwarf-planet. Discovering Eris which is situated after Pluto made astronomers rethink the whole planet situation. So they changed pluto to be a dwarf planet instead
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    These can be refuted thus

    Yes, both the father and the son are to be honoured EQUALLY!:

    Joh 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
    Joh 5:23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

    In islam can created creatures receive the same honour that is given to allah?

    The father is Greater in rank/role, not essence.

    ESSENCE: The most important ingredient; the crucial element. The inherent, unchanging nature of a thing or class of things. the characteristic or intrinsic feature of a thing, which determines its identity; fundamental nature. the unchanging and unchangeable nature of something which is necessary to its being the thing it is; its necessary properties [/i]

    Jesus said john the Baptist is greater than moses, does this mean moses is any less of a man and less of a prophet than John the Baptist? Of course not:

    "I tell you the truth: Among those born of women there has not risen anyone greater (meizon) than John the Baptist; yet he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he." Matthew 11:11
    The only reason john could have been greater than moses would be down to the role both of them played. John had the privilidge of paving the way for the messiah which is a thing all the prophets would have desired to do.

    Mat 13:16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.
    Mat 13:17 For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.

    As jesus lowered himself and became a man he took on the role of a servant. As the father wasn’t a servant then the father would be greater in rank/role/position than the one who is serving the father:

    "For who is the greater, one who reclines at table or one who serves? Is it not the one who reclines at table? But I am among you as the one who serves." Luke 22:27
    Thus, the Father was greater in position and rank, not in essence and nature. The questioner is, therefore, committing a categorical fallacy. He/she is confusing the category of position and rank with the category of essence and nature, erroneously assuming that if one is greater in one way, i.e. position and authority, than he/she must be greater in every way, i.e. essence and nature. In light of these clear biblical truths, such is not the case at all. Sam shamoun.answering islam.



    How is this a refutation? Christians themselves believe that God sent a part of himself to incarnate, i.e. Jesus.



    Jesus performed miracles by claiming that he was God and thus the power of God worked through him according to dogma.



    How is this a refutation? Everyone knows that most people didn't believe he was God, that's why he was crucified!



    Not true. Jesus said he was God plenty of times and there are loads of passages in the Bible that show this:

    . Old and New Testament Parallels of God the Father and God the SonExodus 3:14 - God says "I AM who I AM" -
    John 8:58 - Jesus says "Before Abraham was, I AM" in reference to Himself.
    Deut. 4:2; 12:32 - the Lord God commands that we not add or take away from His word -
    Rev. 22:18-19 - Jesus so commands us not to add or take away from His word.
    Deut. 32:39; 1 Sam. 2:6 - the Lord kills and makes alive again and raises up -
    John 5:21 - the Son raises and gives life.
    Deut. 32:39 - neither is there any that can deliver out of God's hand -
    John 10:28 - nor shall any pluck out of Jesus' hand
    .Deut. 32:43 - rejoice, ye heavens, with Him, and let all the angels of God worship Him -
    Heb. 1:6 - the "Him" is Jesus the Son.
    Sam. 22:3 - God is the horn of salvation -
    Luke 1:68-69 - Jesus is the horn of salvation.
    Psalm 19:7 - the law of the Lord is perfect -
    Gal. 6:2 - fulfill the law of Christ.
    Psalm 24:10 - the Lord is the King of glory -
    1 Cor. 2:8 - Jesus is the Lord of glory.
    Psalm 45:7 - Therefore God, your God, has anointed you. God calls someone else God. This someone else is His eternally begotten Son -
    Heb. 1:9 - Therefore God, your God, has anointed you. cf. Heb. 1:8, 10.Psalm 62:12 - the Lord God renders to each according to his work -
    Matt. 16:27; Rev. 22:12 - Jesus so renders to each according to his work.
    Psalm 71:5 - the Lord God is our hope -
    1 Tim. 1:1 - the Lord Jesus Christ who is our hope.
    Psalm 89:27 – I will make him the first-born, the highest (“elyon” which refers to God) of the kings of the earth -
    John 18:36-27 – Jesus is this first-born king.
    Psalm 97:9 - the Lord God is above all -
    John 3:31 - Jesus is above all.
    Psalms 110:1 - the Lord (Yahweh) said to my Lord - Jesus = Yhwh -
    Acts 2:34-36 - God has made Jesus both Lord and Christ.
    Psalm 148:1-2 - the angels worship the Lord God -
    Heb. 1:6 - the angels worship Jesus. Only God is worshiped.
    Prov. 3:12 - who the Lord loves He corrects -
    Rev. 3:19 - who Jesus loves He corrects.
    Isaiah 7:14 - a virgin will bear a Son named Emmanuel which means "God is with us" -
    Matt. 1:23 - this Son is Jesus Christ, God in the flesh.
    Isaiah 9:6 - the child to be born shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
    Isaiah 25:8 - God swallows up death in victory -
    2 Tim. 1:10 - Jesus abolishes death and brings life and immortality.
    Isaiah 40:8 - the Word of God shall stand forever -
    Matt. 24:35 - the Words of Jesus shall not pass away.
    Isaiah 42:8 - God gives His glory to no other - John 17:5; Heb. 1:3 - yet Jesus has the same glory as the Father.
    Isaiah 43:14 - the Lord God is redeemer - Titus 2:14 - Jesus is the redeemer.
    Isaiah 44:6 - the Lord God is the first and the last - Rev. 1:17; 2:8; 22:13 - Jesus is the first and the last.
    Isaiah 45:19 - I, the Lord God, did not speak in secret - John 18:20 - Jesus said "I have said nothing secretly.
    "Isaiah 45:23 - to God, every knee shall bow and every tongue swear. Phil. 2:10-11 - at Jesus' name every knee should bow and tongue confess.
    Isaiah 48:17 - God is the Holy One - Acts 3:14 - Jesus is the Holy One.
    Isaiah 60:19 - God is everlasting light - Revelation 21:23 - Jesus the Lamb is eternal light.
    Jer. 17:10 - the Lord searches the hearts and repays us according to our deeds - Rev. 2:23 - Jesus searches the hearts and repays us according to our deeds.
    Ezek. 1:26-28; Daniel 7:9 - God's glorious appearance - Rev. 1:13-16 - Jesus' glorious appearance.
    Ezek. 34:11-31 - God the Father is the shepherd of the flock - John 10:7-29 - Jesus is the shepherd of the flock.
    Ezek. 34:16 - God seeks to save that which was lost - Luke 19:10 - Jesus seeks to save that which was lost.
    Ezek. 34:17 - God judges between cattle, rams and goats - Matt. 25:32 - Jesus judges and separates the goats from the sheep.
    Ezek. 43:2 - God's voice was like a noise of many waters - Rev. 1:15 - Jesus' voice was like the sound of many waters.
    Dan. 2:47 - the Lord is the God of gods and the Lord of Lords - Rev. 17:14 - Jesus the Lamb is the Lord of Lords.

    Jesus Christ Claims to be God:
    Matt. 4:7; Luke 4:12 - Jesus tells satan, "you shall not tempt the Lord your God" in reference to Himself.
    Matt. 5:21-22; 27-28; 31-32; 33-34; 38-39; 43-44 - Jesus makes Himself equal to God when He declares, "You heard it said...but I say to you..
    "Matt. 7:21-22; Luke 6:46 - not everyone who says to Jesus, "Lord, Lord." Jesus calls Himself Lord, which is God.
    Matt. 9:2; Mark 2:5; Luke 5:20; 7:48 - Jesus forgives sins. Only God can forgive sins.
    Matt. 12:8; Mark 2:28; Luke 6:5 - Jesus says that He is "Lord of the Sabbath." He is the Lord of God's law which means He is God.
    Matt. 18:20 - Jesus says where two or three are gathered in His name, there He is in the midst of them.
    Matt. 21:3; Luke 19:31,34 - Jesus calls himself "Lord." "The Lord has need of them.
    "Matt. 26:64; Mark 14:62; Luke 22:70 - Jesus acknowledges that He is the Son of God.
    Matt. 28:20 - Jesus said He is with us always, even unto the end of the world. Only God is omnipresent.
    Mark 14:36 - Jesus calls God "Abba," Aramaic for Father, which was an absolutely unprecedented address to God and demonstrates Jesus' unique intimacy with the Father.
    Luke 8:39 - Luke reports that Jesus said "tell how much God has done for you." And the man declared how much Jesus did.
    Luke 17:18 - Jesus asks why the other nine lepers did not come back to give praise to Him, God, except the Samaritan leper.
    Luke 19:38,40 - Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord. If these were silent, the very stones would cry out.
    John 5:18 - Jesus claimed to be God. The Jews knew this because Jesus called God His Father and made Himself equal to God. This is why Jesus was crucified.
    John 5:21-22 - Jesus gives life and says that all judgment has been given to Him by the Father.
    John 5:23 - Jesus equates Himself with the Father, "whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him."
    John 6:38 - Jesus says, "For I have come down from heaven."
    John 8:12 - Jesus says "I am the light of the world." -
    1 John 1:5 - God is light and in him there is no darkness at all.
    John 8:19 - Jesus says, "if you knew me, you would know my Father also."
    John 8:23 - Jesus says that He is not of this world. Only God is not of this world.
    John 8:58 - Jesus says, "Before Abraham was, I AM."
    Exodus 3:14 - "I AM" means "Yahweh," which means God.
    John 10:18 - Jesus says He has the power to lay down His life and take it up again -
    Gal. 1:1 - God raised Jesus to life.
    John 10:30 - Jesus says, "I and the Father are one." They are equal. The Jews even claimed Jesus made Himself equal to God. Jesus' statement in John 14:28, "the Father is greater than I," cannot contradict John 10:30 (the Word of God is never in conflict). Jesus' statement in John 14:28 simply refers to His human messianic role as servant and slave, which He, and not the Father or the Holy Spirit, undertook in the flesh.
    John 10:36 - again, Jesus claims that He is "the Son of God."
    John 10:38; 14:10 - "the Father is in me and I am in the Father" means the Father and Son are equal.
    John 12:45 - Jesus says, "He who sees Me sees Him who sent Me." God the Father is equal to God the Son.
    John 13:13 - Jesus says, "You call me Teacher and Lord and you are right for so I AM."
    John 14:6 - Jesus says "I am the way, and the truth and the life." Only God is the way, the truth and the life.
    John 16:15 - Jesus says, "all things that the Father has are Mine." Jesus has everything God has which makes Him God.
    John 16:28 - Jesus says that "He came from the Father and has come into the world."
    John 17:5,24 - Jesus' desire is for us to behold His glory which He had before the foundation of the world.
    John 20:17 - Jesus distinguishes His relationship to the Father from our relationship by saying "My Father and your Father."
    Rev. 1:8 - God says He is the "Alpha and the Omega." In Rev. 22:13, Jesus also says He is the "Alpha and Omega, the First and the Last, the beginning and the end." The only possible conclusion one can reach is that Jesus is equal to the Lord God.
    Rev. 1:17 - Jesus says again, "I am the First and the Last." This is in reference to the God prophesied by Isaiah in Isaiah 44:6, 41:4, 48:12.Rev. 1:18 - Jesus, the First and the Last, also says "I died, and behold, I am alive for evermore." When did God ever die? He only did in the humanity of Jesus Christ our Lord and God.
    Rev. 2:8 - Jesus again says, "The words of the First and the Last, who died and came to life." When did God die and come to life? In our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

    And many more, see this list of Biblical quotes for the source and further examples http://www.scripturecatholic.com/jes..._divinity.html

    Ephesians 4:6and one God and Father, who is over all and in all and living through all.If God is living through all, it means he is in Jesus, it means he is in all of us.
    "John 10:38; 14:10 - "the Father is in me and I am in the Father" - of course. That does not mean he is God. But I am among you as the one who serves." Luke 22:27 - of course. He was there to show people that God exists. He showed that through him.
    For example all these demon incarnations in people: If a demon incarnates in a human that does not mean the human himself is a demon. The same is with Jesus.
    John 10:36 - again, Jesus claims that He is "the Son of God." - "what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, 'I am God's Son'?"
    Being son of God, does not make him God. I can not understand why do people keep mistaking this, as it is written son OF A GOD. If he was God then it should be written Jesus the God. You are contradicting with the Bible now.
    Galatians 3:26
    for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith.
    Again - God can be in all of us. IN all of us - that again does not make US Gods or any other person even Jesus.
    In the Bible it is said by some people that Jesus is God. That again does not make him one just by someone's opinion or view.
    Nowhere in the Bible it is said that Jesus claims to be God, so if he had not said that why are you putting such words in his mouth?
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    (Original post by NathanDYE)
    Didn't read but guessing it is something about God not existing....... Finally something i agree on



    ATHEISTS UNITED. Being religious is worse than being racist or homophobic or sexist......
    How?...
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    (Original post by NatiiEw)
    Ephesians 4:6and one God and Father, who is over all and in all and living through all.If God is living through all, it means he is in Jesus, it means he is in all of us.
    "John 10:38; 14:10 - "the Father is in me and I am in the Father" - of course. That does not mean he is God. But I am among you as the one who serves." Luke 22:27 - of course. He was there to show people that God exists. He showed that through him.
    For example all these demon incarnations in people: If a demon incarnates in a human that does not mean the human himself is a demon. The same is with Jesus.
    John 10:36 - again, Jesus claims that He is "the Son of God." - "what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, 'I am God's Son'?"
    Being son of God, does not make him God. I can not understand why do people keep mistaking this, as it is written son OF A GOD. If he was God then it should be written Jesus the God. You are contradicting with the Bible now.
    Galatians 3:26
    for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith.
    Again - God can be in all of us. IN all of us - that again does not make US Gods or any other person even Jesus.
    In the Bible it is said by some people that Jesus is God. That again does not make him one just by someone's opinion or view.
    Nowhere in the Bible it is said that Jesus claims to be God, so if he had not said that why are you putting such words in his mouth?
    That's simply not true. There are plenty of places in the Bible that say he is God and I have just provided you with many of those verses.
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    That's simply not true. There are plenty of places in the Bible that say he is God and I have just provided you with many of those verses.
    Nope, you provided me opinions of people which are written in the Bible.
    You provided me words in the Bible which you have interpreted.
    But you have not provided me Jesus' words saying he is God.
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    (Original post by NatiiEw)
    Nope, you provided me opinions of people which are written in the Bible.
    You provided me words in the Bible which you have interpreted.
    But you have not provided me Jesus' words saying he is God.
    Incorrect, I provided you with claims said by Jesus himself, read my posts properly.

    And that's a bit rich considering that in your original post you also provided examples of other people saying he was not God.
    • TSR Support Team
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    TSR Support Team
    (Original post by The Assassin)
    thanks OP. Because of you I feel more euphoric and enlightened than ever
    /s
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    God is in all of us as I have pointed with a quotation. Only because Jesus was the first man to realize it that does not mean he is God.
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    (Original post by Anna_S)
    How?...

    google it, I'm sure you'll find some good points as i cba to get into a discussion with you.
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    (Original post by NatiiEw)
    God is in all of us as I have pointed with a quotation. Only because Jesus was the first man to realize it that does not mean he is God.
    Yes, but as I already said, Christians will disagree with you. I'm not Christian btw, I was just pointing out that there are verses in the Bible where Jesus says he's divine. Christians obviously didn't get this belief out of thin air.

    So are you religious?
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    What kind of tit makes this sort of thread what kind of person is that factious
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    (Original post by yasaminO_o)
    What kind of tit makes this sort of thread what kind of person is that factious
    Veestos121. What a saviour he is to us all -.-
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    ''The truth will set me free''. But I'm already free.
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    Yes, but as I already said, Christians will disagree with you. I'm not Christian btw, I was just pointing out that there are verses in the Bible where Jesus says he's divine. Christians obviously didn't get this belief out of thin air.

    So are you religious?
    No, I'm not religious. But also I'm not denying the existence of God.
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    (Original post by Anna_S)
    It is not actually a planet, because of its size and its location, it is just classified under the name of a dwarf-planet. Discovering Eris which is situated after Pluto made astronomers rethink the whole planet situation. So they changed pluto to be a dwarf planet instead
    Its classification changed when similar sized objects were discovered in the Kuiper belt, not because of some fundamental scientific error.
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    (Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
    Its classification changed when similar sized objects were discovered in the Kuiper belt, not because of some fundamental scientific error.
    I did not say there was a fundamental error, instead i said there was a change, due to new discoveries.
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    (Original post by Anna_S)
    Exactly, there is no solid prove of the big bang, science cant explain everything, and so some people put their faith in spiritual things, not to delude themselves but because they feel there is not always enough human explanation for things that happen. Many people have theories that in the bible, when God says "Let there be light" that it could be the big bang. Christianity does not say things such as natural selection does not exist cos it does. I study biology and it makes sense the concept of it. There are many natural processes the only difference between you and me is that i believe that there was a spiritual force behind this,whilst you believe that it is all purely by chance.
    Science cannot explain everything yet, but its correcting itself and gaining more knowledge all time. Science also admits it doesn't know something yet, and doesn't invent explanation out of nowhere. You can always question scientific claim if you have sufficient evidence, but you cannot question claims made by religion, which is the core difference between these knowledge systems, and what essentially makes science more accurate source of knowledge. Yes, science is sometimes wrong, but it also tests and fixes itself all time.How could we ever know what is true if we believed every fairy tale ever existed?What makes christianity any different from fairy tales, or what makes it any more true than any other religion?

    While I think OP's post was sligltly exageratted, for me that is what happened. I was a kid raised to christianity, full of fear, sadness and emotional complexes. Well, in the school, here in Finland kids who belongs in church were taught religion as truth, but I started to question everything, I was like 7 or 8. It still took a painful process and a lot of thinking with my little mind of a kid to get rid of the painful mindset. At the age of 12 I was fully atheist, and I tought first time that things are going to be alright, because I knew that my life is up to me and playing is waste of time, I must change my life myself. Well, many things I couldnt chnage, like that my parents were fighting and also had hit me with belt severel times, and threatened rather often to continue doing so, and that I was school bullied,but it was quite a lot nicer to think "it just is this way, and its not my fault" than "god hates me because he puts me trough all this, what have I done (followed by long analysis is it because I accidentally kicked ball into teachers car or something similar)"
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    (Original post by Anna_S)
    I did not say there was a fundamental error, instead i said there was a change, due to new discoveries.
    And where have I denied that science changes due to new discoveries?

    I said that that doesn't mean that there aren't many, many well substantiated and virtually proven scientific theories.
 
 
 
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