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    disabled people deserve compassion. Anyone of us could be disabled so have so compassion. In the UK we look after each other. At the same time people who can work should be treated harshly, its simply unfair not to contribute to society. SO cut those benefits. My final piont is that for some they get more through benefits than through work. We must cut benefits. And use the money to finance the NHS, or police or most crutially pay off the public debt to stop interest repayments; sending £30b abroad every year
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    (Original post by sw651)
    Personally I believe that if they are able to work they should not get benefits at all, What do you guys think?
    you look a bit like Stalin
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    (Original post by Zzzyax)
    disabled people deserve compassion. Anyone of us could be disabled so have so compassion. In the UK we look after each other. At the same time people who can work should be treated harshly, its simply unfair not to contribute to society. SO cut those benefits. My final piont is that for some they get more through benefits than through work. We must cut benefits. And use the money to finance the NHS, or police or most crutially pay off the public debt to stop interest repayments; sending £30b abroad every year
    Or we could increase wages so that people don't have to be on benefits.

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    Benefit bashing is an easy target. There's this idea, promulgated by the likes of the Daily Mail, that some people are more deserving than others. But at the end of the day, it's the system that is broken, whereby unemployment is required in order to keep wages down. If there was a job for everyone, then employees would be able to name their price, but because people fear for their jobs, wages remain low. So low, that in many cases, people need to have them topped up with housing benefit and/or tax credits. And these aren't people working for some small local business - often, they're employed by the likes of Tesco that make millions of pounds in profit every single year.

    And let's not forget the likes of Vodafone and Amazon who deliberately go out of their way to avoid paying their fair share of tax. They're the real villains here, since if they coughed up all they should do, then there would be no need for cuts whatsoever.

    So do people deserve benefits?

    ABSO****INGLUTELY.

    Because the system isn't designed to be a fair playing field and until those at the top pay their dues, those benefits are the only way those at the bottom can survive.
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    (Original post by sw651)
    Personally I believe that if they are able to work they should not get benefits at all, What do you guys think?
    Put yourself in this position. When you graduate you will have to climb the job ladder in order to get a salary that will allow you to live in a area where middle class jobs are plentiful. From A to B there is a high chance you will start on a low wage or have no wage at all. You could be an intern. There is a 99% chance that you will not be able to afford any where to live in a place like London or Birmingham.

    How are you going to get onto the middle class job ladder without any income or support?

    Now lets address this from another perspective. Lets say you manage to start up your own business and your living the high life in London. You try and expand your business but you need employees who smell decent, can work long hours and work on low wages. Where are you going to get them from in a state where all forms housing and public transportation only cater to the rich & well off?

    Poor workers need social housing, public transportation and everything you use yourself. Do you just expect areas to become affordable in cities with the wave of a magic wand because the free market is so awesome?

    You haven't thought this though have you?

    Personally if I had any control over your life I would deprive you of all your material wealth and throw you out on the streets for 6 months and black list your right to welfare. Your views would change fast.
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    I don't think anyone "deserves" benefits.. There are people who should get it but even then they only get a bit. But people who take advantage of it really annoy me, like a girl I know is 21 with 4 kids, doesn't work, and has a nice house with big TV etc she is clearly popping out kids to get more money
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    (Original post by illegaltobepoor)
    Put yourself in this position. When you graduate you will have to climb the job ladder in order to get a salary that will allow you to live in a area where middle class jobs are plentiful. From A to B there is a high chance you will start on a low wage or have no wage at all. You could be an intern. There is a 99% chance that you will not be able to afford any where to live in a place like London or Birmingham.

    How are you going to get onto the middle class job ladder without any income or support?

    Now lets address this from another perspective. Lets say you manage to start up your own business and your living the high life in London. You try and expand your business but you need employees who smell decent, can work long hours and work on low wages. Where are you going to get them from in a state where all forms housing and public transportation only cater to the rich & well off?

    Poor workers need social housing, public transportation and everything you use yourself. Do you just expect areas to become affordable in cities with the wave of a magic wand because the free market is so awesome?

    You haven't thought this though have you?

    Personally if I had any control over your life I would deprive you of all your material worth and throw you out on the streets for 6 months and black list your right to welfare. Your views would change fast.
    First of all your username mostly invalidates what you have said. Here's what I am saying, I have had a job since 15 years old, no experience and I still had a job, I now have a decent paying job and live a decent life. People saying their are no jobs is completely untrue, nobody is 'above' a low status jobs, but many on benefits see it like that.

    The point is that if you can work, but think that some jobs are below you, then should you get benefits?

    and many of family are on benefits and I know the lifestyle
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    (Original post by sw651)
    First of all your username mostly invalidates what you have said. Here's what I am saying, I have had a job since 15 years old, no experience and I still had a job, I now have a decent paying job and live a decent life. People saying their are no jobs is completely untrue, nobody is 'above' a low status jobs, but many on benefits see it like that.

    The point is that if you can work, but think that some jobs are below you, then should you get benefits?

    and many of family are on benefits and I know the lifestyle
    Ok first of all where do you live?
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    (Original post by sw651)
    First of all your username mostly invalidates what you have said. Here's what I am saying, I have had a job since 15 years old, no experience and I still had a job, I now have a decent paying job and live a decent life. People saying their are no jobs is completely untrue, nobody is 'above' a low status jobs, but many on benefits see it like that.

    The point is that if you can work, but think that some jobs are below you, then should you get benefits?

    and many of family are on benefits and I know the lifestyle
    A lot of jobs are commission based or are part time. Where I used to live, there was someone constantly avertising for a job. It was something like 10 hours a week; but they wanted you to be flexible. But how can you get a second job?
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    Giving poor people the bare minimum is economically unhelpful given that they spend their money which benefits businesses anyway.
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    (Original post by OU Student)
    A lot of jobs are commission based or are part time. Where I used to live, there was someone constantly avertising for a job. It was something like 10 hours a week; but they wanted you to be flexible. But how can you get a second job?
    Surely flexibility usually means more hours than usual from my experience?
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    (Original post by illegaltobepoor)
    Ok first of all where do you live?
    Walsall, Birmingham
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    (Original post by The Rad Prince)
    Giving poor people the bare minimum is economically unhelpful given that they spend their money which benefits businesses anyway.

    Ultimately the net gain to the economy is zero then? They are just giving the money back to the economy?
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    (Original post by sw651)
    Ultimately the net gain to the economy is zero then? They are just giving the money back to the economy?
    Not strictly true, if everyone stopped spending money and saved it, the economy would actually begin to collapse rather than there being a net effect of zero. Spending money within an economy is an economically proactive action.
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    (Original post by The Rad Prince)
    Not strictly true, if everyone stopped spending money and saved it, the economy would actually begin to collapse rather than there being a net effect of zero. Spending money within an economy is an economically proactive action.
    Theoretically speaking, they pay VAT on every purchase so with each purchase they are losing a bit more
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    (Original post by sw651)
    Walsall, Birmingham
    Okay. You live in a area where jobs are plentiful. There is a abundance of work but on the other hand people in different areas like East Anglia or Cumbria do not have the privileges which you have.

    You have 1 major advantage. You have a home there. That in its self is a huge blessing.

    If they are to move to your area to find work they face multiple hurdles.

    To get a social house they need a local connection to the area. They don't have that so they have to look for private accommodation. You should know rent's in Birmingham are expensive and there is little chance that a unemployed single man will be able to even afford the rent for 1 bed flat even when on housing benefit.

    It is the case that most people on benefits in industrialized cities tend to bunk up together. Making friends is very hard when moving from area to area looking for work and house or flat mates can be very hard to find.

    Who in their right mind is going to allow a unemployed job seeker on benefits share their home with them? Not many people would.

    And what if this job seeker is a ex convict? What if the job seeker is disabled? What other prejudices will they encounter. I am not fully going down the social justice warrior route here but moving from 1 area to another isn't simple as A to B.

    If you've got cash & privilege then its not an issue to you but to the poor unemployed it is an issue.
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    (Original post by illegaltobepoor)
    Okay. You live in a area where jobs are plentiful. There is a abundance of work but on the other hand people in different areas like East Anglia or Cumbria do not have the privileges which you have.

    You have 1 major advantage. You have a home there. That in its self is a huge blessing.

    If they are to move to your area to find work they face multiple hurdles.

    To get a social house they need a local connection to the area. They don't have that so they have to look for private accommodation. You should know rent's in Birmingham are expensive and there is little chance that a unemployed single man will be able to even afford the rent for 1 bed flat even when on housing benefit.

    It is the case that most people on benefits in industrialized cities tend to bunk up together. Making friends is very hard when moving from area to area looking for work and house or flat mates can be very hard to find.

    Who in their right mind is going to allow a unemployed job seeker on benefits share their home with them? Not many people would.

    And what if this job seeker is a ex convict? What if the job seeker is disabled? What other prejudices will they encounter. I am not fully going down the social justice warrior route here but moving from 1 area to another isn't simple as A to B.

    If you've got cash & privilege then its not an issue to you but to the poor unemployed it is an issue.
    Birminghams had one of the highest youth unemployment rates in the country, it's only on the way back now.

    I don't get the logic behind there are not enough jobs. You can always create a job for yourself.
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    (Original post by Bill_Gates)
    Birminghams had one of the highest youth unemployment rates in the country, it's only on the way back now.

    I don't get the logic behind there are not enough jobs. You can always create a job for yourself.
    If you have the right knowledge, skills and CAPITAL then yes you can. Most of it depends on the amount of CAPITAL you have. If you have zero CAPITAL then you are always reliant on other people for the means of production.

    For the poor unemployed working classes your example is useless.

    Go and learn about the real world.

    We don't all have a mate called Ben Bernanke who prints us Benjamin's out for free.
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    (Original post by illegaltobepoor)
    Okay. You live in a area where jobs are plentiful. There is a abundance of work but on the other hand people in different areas like East Anglia or Cumbria do not have the privileges which you have.

    You have 1 major advantage. You have a home there. That in its self is a huge blessing.

    If they are to move to your area to find work they face multiple hurdles.

    To get a social house they need a local connection to the area. They don't have that so they have to look for private accommodation. You should know rent's in Birmingham are expensive and there is little chance that a unemployed single man will be able to even afford the rent for 1 bed flat even when on housing benefit.

    It is the case that most people on benefits in industrialized cities tend to bunk up together. Making friends is very hard when moving from area to area looking for work and house or flat mates can be very hard to find.

    Who in their right mind is going to allow a unemployed job seeker on benefits share their home with them? Not many people would.

    And what if this job seeker is a ex convict? What if the job seeker is disabled? What other prejudices will they encounter. I am not fully going down the social justice warrior route here but moving from 1 area to another isn't simple as A to B.

    If you've got cash & privilege then its not an issue to you but to the poor unemployed it is an issue.
    Woah, do you know how high unemployment is here? The number of council tenants is through the roof! And I do not have a home, I cannot afford one, I live with my admittedly wealthy parents, but even they are struggling.

    And you can get a flat for
    £300 a month, which is far less then their allowance, my sister gets at least 3 times that!

    Ex-cons have the prison system who helps them find work, if they don't take it that is their own fault, disability is one that cannot be helped, they should get benefits because they cannot help it.

    What we need is a reform to a broken system that doesn't give money to those who deserve it!
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    (Original post by illegaltobepoor)
    If you have the right knowledge, skills and CAPITAL then yes you can. Most of it depends on the amount of CAPITAL you have. If you have zero CAPITAL then you are always reliant on other people for the means of production.

    For the poor unemployed working classes your example is useless.

    Go and learn about the real world.

    We don't all have a mate called Ben Bernanke who prints us Benjamin's out for free.
    You don't need capital for a bucket and sponge - £1 per window. Then you can get a lawn mower and a hedge trimmer, then a shovel for landscaping, then learn plastering/tiling etc.

    EASY.
 
 
 
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