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Muslim woman in Hijab pushed into a moving train by a man in London watch

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    (Original post by annony)
    No actually I know about that and i hope those vile men get what they deserve.
    So a crime by Muslim men against a non-Muslim has been publicised there. And this crime by a non-Muslim against a Muslim woman has been publicised. I'm not quite sure what the problem is.

    The website which put up this video is called "Documenting Oppression Against Muslims". Do you think Muslims who live in England are an oppressed class?

    You dont know how to stay on topic though do you?
    I was drawing an analogy. It's something one does in debate, to drill down to the material facts.
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    The moment I read the first word of the title I just knew that yet another of TSR's staple Muslim debates would ensue.
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    (Original post by woIfie)
    Allows her to wear it? You mean forces her to wear it? If a woman has to wear a cumbersome item of attire that men do not (on the basis that a husband doesn't want other men "looking at my woman" ) then you clearly have an example of sexism there. If you treat men and women differently, in a way that places greater encumbrance on the woman, then it is sexist
    men have to wear a hat as well
    men have to keep a beard as well
    what are you talking about?
    this is such an insulting thing to say that some part of someones religion is cumbersome!! you have just insulted a religions values.


    (Original post by woIfie)
    You're comparing women to small children? Can't think for themselves and must be told what to do? I rest my case.
    What about adult teenagers who go out drinking and their parents do not allow it. Arent they oppressed!!!!


    (Original post by woIfie)
    What do you mean it's not being publicised? We're discussing it now. This crime has attracted widespread attention on twitter and the Islamic blogosphere
    this is not on the bbc
    this is the student room. what publicity is this???
    i do not have twitter and so do not most of the older public or most of the world
    what are you on about.
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    (Original post by annony)
    i can't believe this is priority in your life.
    Again if this was a Muslim man craxy or drunk doing this to muslim woman the public would not care about the person who released the footage, in fact they would appreciate it.
    Yes this is the first one only affects 1 person the second affects us all. Which is more important to you?

    The crime has been dealt with now we have to deal with massive breach of public trust
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    (Original post by Foo.mp3)
    Unquestionably a shocking/appalling, not to mention shameful/un-British, act but perhaps just one example, I'm afraid, of the tens of thousands of annual instances of members of 'majority' groups in the West snapping under the pressure of multicultural societal conditions that have developed in relation state enforced mass inter-civilizational displacement for which no leader has ever received a political mandate. This is not the first such outrage and will not be the last until Western leaders have a rethink in the light of known facts of life re: identity, fear, prejudicial human nature, and The Clash of Civilisations
    I know this isn't the first case and it certainly won't be the last but I'm sorry,they better get used to the fact that Muslims are part of the UK just like they are. Muslims have even fought for this country as well as ethnic minorities,what more do they want or expect from them?
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    (Original post by BaconandSauce)
    Yes this is the first one only affects 1 person the second affects us all. Which is more important to you?

    The crime has been dealt with now we have to deal with massive breach of public trust
    what? what is affecting us all exactly?
    what has affected the first person... this first thing you talk about has not been affected.
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    That is quite terrifying. A few moments earlier and she could've been under the tube :/ Hope that guy is jailed.
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    (Original post by annony)
    this is not on the bbc
    this is the student room. what publicity is this???
    Why should it be on the BBC? Does every random crime against a Muslim need to be on the BBC? The gang rape of the 14 year old girl wasn't.

    This terrible crime has been covered in the DailyMail and in other sources. If you're going to engage in mature and rational debate, you need to understand the concept of compare like with like.

    Thus far your argument appears to be that unless every crime against anyone who happens to be Muslim is covered on the BBC, then it's clear evidence of the Islamophobic conspiracy against Muslims in the West. That is paranoid thinking, and irrational to boot
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    (Original post by queen-bee)
    What's even more disgusting is those one this thread trying to justify it just because they dislike Muslims
    I must have missed the comments saying "It's ok to push a woman into a moving train because she's a Muslim and I don't like them".

    Perhaps you could either link to the several comments that express that sentiment, or retract your accusation for being no more than the usual baseless, mud-slinging, faux victimhood.
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    (Original post by woIfie)
    It's because you are. On the other thread, you started babbling about your Call of Duty fantasies and making factually incorrect claims like that the Kurdish Sinjar offensive started from west of the town when in fact most of the troops came over Mount Sinjar from the north.
    I did "babble" and quite a bit too.

    You know, even in my "COD fantasies", I've never known a troop carrier and/or tanks to drive over a ****ing mountain.


    In my follow up, I put to you whether HW47 was more strategic to IS or the Kurds but you didn't reply.

    I'm concerned that your posts often consist almost entirely of strawmen and baseless theories.
    And I have already expressed my concerns that you do not seem to think any contrary view can possibly be correct.

    You'll have to point out where I excused either. I called the person who blamed the woman crazy, and I called this a terrible crime. You seem to be excusing the tendency of some far leftists and Islamists to label any random crime against Muslims as part of some Western conspiracy against Muslims, or evidence that society is overwhelmingly racist against them in violent/oppressive ways
    Reducing this abhorrent crime of attempted murder to "crazy old man" and the subsequent or apparent condoning by certain users as "one user" are terms used to excuse and justify the behaviour of people of a certain view but which are standard for them.

    I.e: The man only pushed her because she is crazy.
    I.e: The user is only acting like that because he is of the same ilk and in the the minority.


    I have categorically denied that there is some such conspiracy (and now who's bringing up strawmen?) so I don't know why the last comment is there.
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    (Original post by QE2)
    I must have missed the comments saying "It's ok to push a woman into a moving train because she's a Muslim and I don't like them".

    Perhaps you could either link to the several comments that express that sentiment, or retract your accusation for being no more than the usual baseless, mud-slinging, faux victimhood.
    Victimhood? I'm not even a Muslim myself,but Muslims who are attacked and ridiculed on a daily basis because of what they choose to wear or believe in are the real victims.
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    (Original post by annony)
    what? what is affecting us all exactly?
    The breach of public trust

    people who monitor CCTV should not be recording it on their personal phones and we should be able to trust them that they don't.

    You may not agree but the Transport Police do as does their Information Security Officer and now do the Information Commissioners Office (this is a public body)
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    (Original post by queen-bee)
    Islamophobia on this site is rife, so let's not get ahead of our selves. There's always more than one person hating on Muslims just like on previous thread
    No. What's rife on this site is a double standards, faux victimhood sense of entitlement.

    When people call Islam an oppressive, discriminatory, divisive and violent ideology, they are not "hating on Muslims". They are criticising an ideology.
    An ideology can be analysed and criticised as an entity.
    Remember that Muslims, like everyone else, are individuals and should be judged on their words and actions. If they state that they specifically support the violent, oppressive, divisive and violent passages, then they can also be criticised as individuals. It's still not "hating" though. There is more a sense of sadness, despair and pity.

    I think the concept of "hating" those that are different is very much restricted to the followers of extreme ideologies, whether they be religious or political, engendered by the "us and them" philosophy that they usually promote.
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    (Original post by QE2)
    No. What's rife on this site is a double standards, faux victimhood sense of entitlement.

    When people call Islam an oppressive, discriminatory, divisive and violent ideology, they are not "hating on Muslims". They are criticising an ideology.
    An ideology can be analysed and criticised as an entity.
    Remember that Muslims, like everyone else, are individuals and should be judged on their words and actions. If they state that they specifically support the violent, oppressive, divisive and violent passages, then they can also be criticised as individuals. It's still not "hating" though. There is more a sense of sadness, despair and pity.

    I think the concept of "hating" those that are different is very much restricted to the followers of extreme ideologies, whether they be religious or political, engendered by the "us and them" philosophy that they usually promote.
    So islamophobia is non existent? What about innocent Muslims living amongst us,who don't want any violence but happen to be attacked because of their religion,what do we call that? Lol what is this us and them philosophy,y'all so brainwashed by the extreme right.
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    (Original post by queen-bee)
    Victimhood? I'm not even a Muslim myself,but Muslims who are attacked and ridiculed on a daily basis because of what they choose to wear or believe in are the real victims.
    So, was that a "No, I can't link any comments to support my claim"?

    The real victims are, indeed, those who face real persecution and violence for what they are. However, claiming that people are justifying this attack because the victim is a Muslim is clearly untrue and is no doubt meant to build on the sense of "victimhood" that is common in some circles.

    Muslims, as a rule, are not "attacked and ridiculed on a daily basis because of what they choose to wear or believe", and to claim that they are is disingenuous.
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    (Original post by TheArtofProtest)
    I did "babble" and quite a bit too.

    You know, even in my "COD fantasies", I've never known a troop carrier and/or tanks to drive over a ****ing mountain.


    There's a road through the centre of Mount Sinjar, and in fact there are parts of it that are passable, slowly and methodically, for wheeled vehicles. How on earth do you think the Kurds got their artillery up there overlooking the town?

    And this is my point. You said the Kurds came from the West. In fact, many of them came over Mount Sinjar. In fact, here's two pictures of the Kurdish troops moving over Mount Sinjar yesterday

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CTo60ktUkAApTCs.jpg:large
    http://ww4.hdnux.com/photos/42/11/13.../3/920x920.jpg

    In my follow up, I put to you whether HW47 was more strategic to IS or the Kurds but you didn't reply.
    It's vital to ISIS. That doesn't mean they have the capacity to take it back. There are really only two directions ISIS can plausibly come from to mount a counterattack, east and west. The west will be difficult as the Kurds and FSA have mounted a simultaneous offensive in Al-Hakasah and Hawl about 70 kilometres west of Sinjar along Highway 47.

    For ISIS to mount any serious counterattack from the West they would have to drive about 70 kilometres along the highway, past other Kurdish forces and with Mount Sinjar on their left (where there would be Kurdish artillery overlooking them). And due to British and American airpower, any large ISIS convoy travelling along Highway 47 would be spotted and attacked.

    Yesterday and this morning, the Peshmerga pushed about 20 miles east from Sinjar up Highway 47 towards Tal Afar. They captured the cement factory just before the road junction outside Ibrat Ash and have continued to push forward. Again, for ISIS to mount an offensive into Sinjar they will have to retake the cement factory and push along the road with Mount Sinjar and Kurdish artillery on their right, and British and American aircraft overhead. Similarly, the No Drive Zone for ISIS vehicles will mean that any large convoy will be quickly spotted and attacked by Hellfire missiles.

    To the south, there are two towns, Baaj and Ain Fathi, but those two towns are basically at the end of roads that start at Highway 47 around Sinjar. To the west, south and east of those two towns is open desert with no roads connecting them to, say, Mosul or Tikrit further south. The Kurds have pushed south strongly toward Baaj and the ISIS Emir of Baaj is reported killed. They will not be able to receive reinforcements.

    The only place the attack can come from is east or west, and in both cases ISIS could only bring substantial forces to bear by convoying them out there, which would be immediately noticed and attacked.

    You seem to think that because this town is important to ISIS, therefore they have the capability to retake it. That is faulty logic. The Kurdish offensive against Sinjar has been extremely methodical and has obviously been long in planning. They are supported by British and American special forces on the ground, Reaper drones, A-10 Warthods and B-1 bombers in the air. Precisely how ISIS could get a convoy down Highway 47 is unclear by any logical standards. The only way ISIS could have any hope is if there is a sandstorm or the weather deteriorates thus preventing air cover and artillery from assisting.

    And I have already expressed my concerns that you do not seem to think any contrary view can possibly be correct.
    I am open to contrary views, I just think you were incredibly rude and patronising to other users on the Sinjar thread, which causes me to dislike you given your patronising tone was married up with an obvious lack of knowledge about the Sinjar area and modern warfare in general.

    Reducing this abhorrent crime of attempted murder to "crazy old man"
    So you're saying he's not crazy? You are speaking as though you know that he was motivated by some animus against Muslims, egged on by underlying societal hostility against Muslims. But that's just a narrative you and other TSRians have constructed in your head. The perpetrator is an 81 year old Japanese pensioner, not a 21 year old middle-class white man.

    apparent condoning by certain users as "one user" are terms used to excuse and justify the behaviour of people of a certain view but which are standard for them
    Your argument really is incredibly desperate. I don't think it's even worth my time to respond given your involvement in this topic is clearly driven by emotion and paranoia rather than facts or at least what can be inferred from what we know.
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    (Original post by QE2)
    So, was that a "No, I can't link any comments to support my claim"?

    The real victims are, indeed, those who face real persecution and violence for what they are. However, claiming that people are justifying this attack because the victim is a Muslim is clearly untrue and is no doubt meant to build on the sense of "victimhood" that is common in some circles.

    Muslims, as a rule, are not "attacked and ridiculed on a daily basis because of what they choose to wear or believe", and to claim that they are is disingenuous.
    I don't answer to you sweety,if you didn't like my previous rowdy,that's your problem.

    What circles would this be?
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    (Original post by queen-bee)
    they better get used to the fact that Muslims are part of the UK just like they are
    I'm afraid that this proclamation/attitude is unlikely to secure the safety/security (never mind patronage [from the people]) of Muslims in the UK, in the absence of a significant change in the cultural climate/security situation here

    In the Neo-con/neo-globalised (post-Thatcher) era, political/media elites have done their level best to degrade society (at the behest of their crony capitalist paymasters), and to transform it into something disunited and alien (be this in terms of worship of a false prophet, money, or pussy), and, as such, have severely undermined the notion of there being merit/dignity in respecting the society that has been imposed in the name of myopic ideologue fancy/cold, hard currency:

    • On the one hand, we have been living under the prevailing socioeconomic paradigm we call 'modern' Western Capitalism (a la Godless, pseudo-'progressive' 'Social/Liberal Democracy'), which has installed la mode du jour maxims: 'look after your own' and 'power to the people' = egocentric population, obsessed with personal rights and freedoms, under a small state

    • On the other, we have been experiencing state-imposed (not directly mandated) mass importation/'naturalisation' of millions of people from disparate lands/cultures/ethnicities (some of which plainly do not integrate at all well/pose a significant threat) into an already overcrowded and discontent (housing crisis, inequality etc) island = self-less population requisite, tolerating a statist regime that denies the indigenous population any rights or freedoms with regard to controlling their (national/regional/local) environment; same goes for constitutional destiny, for that matter re: EU treaty changes to date

    Muslims have even fought for this country what more do they want or expect from them?
    Depends on the individual bigot but answers likely range from "the proper British ones can stay" through to utterly (racially/religiously) intolerant responses

    (Original post by queen-bee)
    what is this us and them philosophy
    Granted those on the extreme right are guilty of this too (a priori) but you've read the Koran, right? (See: kafir, for reference). Plus, e.g.

    "66% of Muslims believe that religious law is more important than the law of the land in which they live

    62% of British Muslims believe free speech shouldn’t be protected when it offends religious groups

    45% of Muslims believe Western Civilisation is out to destroy Islam

    28% of British Muslims hope the UK will become a religious fundamentalist Islamic state

    20%-25% of British Muslims (520,000 people) sympathise with 7/7 bombers"
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    (Original post by queen-bee)
    Islamophobia on this site is rife, so let's not get ahead of our selves. There's always more than one person hating on Muslims just like on previous thread
    Now you're just saying random things.
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    omg..poor lady i hope she gets better soon!
 
 
 
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