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Government Statement on the Paris Terrorist Attacks watch

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    (Original post by United1892)
    The complicated situation is why funding groups would fail. Afghanistan was a success, the taliban no longer rule the country. We would be best off invading and crushing them all.
    And risk creating something worse/bigger that ISIS in the process? No thanks. We should supply and fund the Free Syrian Army, whom are the only moderates in the entire civil war.
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    (Original post by James Milibanter)
    And risk creating something worse/bigger that ISIS in the process? No thanks. We should supply and fund the Free Syrian Army, whom are the only moderates in the entire civil war.
    How can we create something worse than ISIS? Fear is not the answer, the FSA is a ragtag group with no actual organisation so how do we arm them? The Peshmerga are the only army we could consider arming but the best option is to fix it ourselves.
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    (Original post by DMcGovern)
    So you're saying they aren't normally?
    SCO19 are a seriously well-equipped unit: their ARVs are specially equipped and modified BMW sedans.
    The average response time of an ARV anywhere in London is 8 minutes, and they're on standby 24 hours a day.
    There are specialist response teams but most of SCO19 are unprepared for attacks, the branch of SCO19 which would be needed are the CTSFOs who have a longer response time. I do feel there is inadequate police protection in Britain to a similar attack Paris experienced. In eight minutes an AK47 could fire 4800 rounds, it takes a second for a bomb to detonate, five seconds for a thrown grenade to explode, and took 14 minutes after being called for SCO19 to respond to the Lee Rigby incident in London; this is not adequate.
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    (Original post by United1892)
    How can we create something worse than ISIS? Fear is not the answer, the FSA is a ragtag group with no actual organisation so how do we arm them? The Peshmerga are the only army we could consider arming but the best option is to fix it ourselves.
    ISIS are a ragtag group with no actual organisation. During the Korean war, the North Korean's were a ragtag group with no actual organisation. During the Vietnam war, the Vietnamese were a ragtag group with no actual organisation.

    What we've learnt through history is that Conventional warfare isn't well matched with Guerilla warfare, so my aiding the FSA (which isn't difficult as they get 100's of volunteers from the west every year, we don't have to send our troops in who probably wouldn't be as effective.
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    (Original post by James Milibanter)
    ISIS are a ragtag group with no actual organisation. During the Korean war, the North Korean's were a ragtag group with no actual organisation. During the Vietnam war, the Vietnamese were a ragtag group with no actual organisation.

    What we've learnt through history is that Conventional warfare isn't well matched with Guerilla warfare, so my aiding the FSA (which isn't difficult as they get 100's of volunteers from the west every year, we don't have to send our troops in who probably wouldn't be as effective.
    They are less ragtag than the FSA. The FSA is completely seperate rebal groups declaring themselves under one banner, therefore they're hard to fund or give guns. I'd also point out the FSA has consistently failed and only the Peshmerga have been succesful against ISIS, we have better weaponary and more soilders than the other groups.
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    (Original post by United1892)
    They are less ragtag than the FSA. The FSA is completely seperate rebal groups declaring themselves under one banner, therefore they're hard to fund or give guns. I'd also point out the FSA has consistently failed and only the Peshmerga have been succesful against ISIS, we have better weaponary and more soilders than the other groups.
    And what happens when we go in a bulldoze ISIS? Do we leave Assad in charge to continue barrel bombing his people, or do we take him out too? Then what, an entire country without any order or stability, who fills the void?
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    (Original post by James Milibanter)
    One could argue that every French revolution had eventually failed, after all, they've had like 5 or 6.
    Surely the term revolution implies success, hence Weimar Germany crushing the "Red Rising"

    Thus we have failed uprisings and successful revolutions.

    What do you define as revolution? Plus the French Revolution could probably be argued as a failure since although the monarchy was overthrown, the Third Estate still couldn't vote, their government largely ineffective until they crowned an Emperor.

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    (Original post by James Milibanter)
    And what happens when we go in a bulldoze ISIS? Do we leave Assad in charge to continue barrel bombing his people, or do we take him out too? Then what, an entire country without any order or stability, who fills the void?
    We fill the void. Set up a democracy and leave when it's stable.
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    (Original post by James Milibanter)
    I think that, bearing in mind David Cameron has offered a similar response, calling the government reactionary is unfair. I didn't want to comment on it so soon, in all honesty, but given the pragmatic approach taken in this statement (David Cameron's own response is a testament to that), I will happily support it.
    That makes the assumption that the RL government will not also appear reactionary to appease the masses.
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    (Original post by United1892)
    We fill the void. Set up a democracy and leave when it's stable.
    Democracy doesn't happen in a day. It took Britain hundreds of years, and even then, we still have a monarch and a HoL.
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    (Original post by James Milibanter)
    Democracy doesn't happen in a day. It took Britain hundreds of years, and even then, we still have a monarch and a HoL.
    It can happen so long as we protect it.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    That makes the assumption that the RL government will not also appear reactionary to appease the masses.
    Aye, but isn't it somewhat the job of the government to appease the masses? It could have been much worse, we could have condemned ISIS, gone to war with them and Assad, then nuked Russia.
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    (Original post by United1892)
    It can happen so long as we protect it.
    For hundreds of years while the society adapts and reforms itself? Or for about 10 years at which point it all goes to crap when we leave. Do we set up a puppet? Because that worked so well with Saddam. And in this democracy, it's very easy for it to collapse like Weimar.
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    (Original post by James Milibanter)
    Aye, but isn't it somewhat the job of the government to appease the masses? It could have been much worse, we could have condemned ISIS, gone to war with them and Assad, then nuked Russia.
    The job of the government is in the name, to govern, as far as I'm concerned, as said in the bar, as crappy as the solution is one way to tackle terrorism to to, in effect, make the public believe it never happened, or at least not for some time after the event. No knowledge, no reaction, no reaction, the attack fails. What is the point of terrorism? Disruption and panic.
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    (Original post by DMcGovern)
    Whooaa there, hold your ****ing horses.
    ISIS has governed better than anyone else?
    I'm not sure about Syria but men like Gaddafi and Hussein were necessary evils: they kept Islamic extremists out, kept their countries stable between opposing groups e.g. Sunni & shiites and although they weren't necessarily democratic, most people were fairly happy with their living conditions. After the Americans stuck their noses in, of course, that all went to ****.
    Isis is extremely tough on all forms of crime - whereas under Saddam Hussein you would have been let off if you paid a large enough bribe - and provides social services and electricity and has several long-awaited public works projects underway, which the people there haven't had for some time. You also have to remember that a lot of people in that region of the Levant who aren't minorities are conservative Muslims by nature and their experience of Isis will largely chime with their beliefs.

    (Original post by Rakas21)
    As bad as this terrorist attack was, it doesn't matter if we radicalise more because we can win.

    We must enter Sryia and bring peace. We've tried it your way for years and the result has been anarchy.
    No, we've tried it your way since 2001 and the result has been anarchy wherever we've tried it. We can't win. If we could win, America wouldn't have just postponed its final withdrawal from Afghanistan and Isis wouldn't exist.
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    (Original post by PetrosAC)
    No. I'm saying that they have interpreted the Koran differently to 99% of Muslims, who are peaceful. It's not even a case of all. It's a handful that are horrible vile beings, with the majority being peaceful people. There are extremists in every religion. Just look at the KKK for example.

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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    As bad as this terrorist attack was, it doesn't matter if we radicalise more because we can win.

    We must enter Sryia and bring peace. We've tried it your way for years and the result has been anarchy.
    We had this debate in the bar the other day, it is rather rare to beat terrorists, it was James, I believe, or was it united, who was only able to come up with 2 examples of the terrorists being beaten, and one of them wasn't even a group of terrorists.
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    (Original post by James Milibanter)
    For hundreds of years while the society adapts and reforms itself? Or for about 10 years at which point it all goes to crap when we leave. Do we set up a puppet? Because that worked so well with Saddam. And in this democracy, it's very easy for it to collapse like Weimar.
    I'd point out countries have quickly adapted to democracy before (Eastern Europe anyone). We failed in Iraq because we let a mixture of islamists and ba'athists reak havoc, we can set it up and stop it from failing.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    We had this debate in the bar the other day, it is rather rare to beat terrorists, it was James, I believe, or was it united, who was only able to come up with 2 examples of the terrorists being beaten, and one of them wasn't even a group of terrorists.
    It was me and I could find more if you want.
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    (Original post by United1892)
    It was me and I could find more if you want.
    And I'm sure I'll be able to double that list in failures

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