B904 - Extending Freedom of Movement Bill 2015 Watch

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Baron of Sealand
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#81
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#81
(Original post by Nigel Farage MEP)
I agree but the current immigration policy is linked with the EU; this bill will restrict unskilled workers form the EU being granted permission to work in Britain. No, I disagree, profit maximisation will happen at all points when the actual wage rate equals the market rage rate. Taking aggregate business figures there would be no benefit to having a lower market wage rate as the spending power of all employees in the economy would be reduced, therefore, it is desirable to have the highest possible market wage rate.

I do not accept the comparison of a bank clerk with an investment banker as both do different jobs, and the bank clerk is not included in the extended skills list. For all of the jobs in the extended BISOL in this bill, experience is advantageous, as is the case with nearly all jobs where the worker improves with hands-on experience. Academic training for all jobs is to provide a basis for the job with all specialist skills being acquired through on-the-job training or experience. This is most clearly seen with medicine where senior consultants are significantly better doctors than junior doctors in their first year.
So wouldn't the solution be restricting freedom of movement within the EU instead? Or is this just an attempt to ignore the democratic view?

But you can't be a judge of that. You're not a medic.

The skilled job list concerned the job in the UK, not with the experience. A bank clerk can claim that the experience was relevant to the position of being a banker.
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Jammy Duel
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#82
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#82
(Original post by Little Toy Gun)
So wouldn't the solution be restricting freedom of movement within the EU instead? Or is this just an attempt to ignore the democratic view?

But you can't be a judge of that. You're not a medic.

The skilled job list concerned the job in the UK, not with the experience. A bank clerk can claim that the experience was relevant to the position of being a banker.
Why exactly does one have to be a medic to be able to judge quality of people in the medical profession?
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username1524603
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#83
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#83
(Original post by Little Toy Gun)
So wouldn't the solution be restricting freedom of movement within the EU instead? Or is this just an attempt to ignore the democratic view?

But you can't be a judge of that. You're not a medic.

The skilled job list concerned the job in the UK, not with the experience. A bank clerk can claim that the experience was relevant to the position of being a banker.
I believe the best option is to unilaterally restrict immigration for unskilled EU and non-EU migrants but allow freer movement from select Dominions, the USA, and countries the GDP per capita is similar to prevent unbalanced flows of economic migrants.

One does not need to be in a profession to make judgements about it, it is clear a doctor with decades of experience in performing complex medical procedures, decades of experience treating people with all sorts of medical conditions, and decades of time to learn from past experiences with patients is going to be better at their job than a graduate from medical school who has very limited clinical practice, and whose only knowledge of medical conditions comes from a textbook that may have been written before conditions were properly diagnosed or understood. The second thing to note is the new pioneering treatments come from doctors experimenting with their treatments during surgery, or research work taking place; they do not come from lecture given by a professor.

An investment banker must make decisions to secure a return where a bank clerk handles small amounts of money on the front line with the public, a clerk could claim relevant experiences but their experience would be rejected when it comes to starting the process of applying for a visa.
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Baron of Sealand
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#84
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#84
(Original post by Jammy Duel)
Why exactly does one have to be a medic to be able to judge quality of people in the medical profession?
Why must journal articles be peer reviewed instead of just taking votes from people on the street?
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Baron of Sealand
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#85
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#85
(Original post by Nigel Farage MEP)
One does not need to be in a profession to make judgements about it, it is clear a doctor with decades of experience in performing complex medical procedures, decades of experience treating people with all sorts of medical conditions, and decades of time to learn from past experiences with patients is going to be better at their job than a graduate from medical school who has very limited clinical practice, and whose only knowledge of medical conditions comes from a textbook that may have been written before conditions were properly diagnosed or understood. The second thing to note is the new pioneering treatments come from doctors experimenting with their treatments during surgery, or research work taking place; they do not come from lecture given by a professor.
That's why there are clinical years, but that's beyond the point.

I already have explained why a greener person could be better than one with a lot of experience. It's up to you whether to refute those points, but I'm only going to respond if you are.

(Original post by Nigel Farage MEP)
An investment banker must make decisions to secure a return where a bank clerk handles small amounts of money on the front line with the public, a clerk could claim relevant experiences but their experience would be rejected when it comes to starting the process of applying for a visa.
The bill doesn't say that. You seem to be suggesting that there will be a great deal of subjectivity if this passes, from people outside of the industry.
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Jammy Duel
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#86
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(Original post by Little Toy Gun)
Why must journal articles be peer reviewed instead of just taking votes from people on the street?
And a medical study is comparable to valuing the work of medical professionals how?
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Baron of Sealand
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#87
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(Original post by Jammy Duel)
And a medical study is comparable to valuing the work of medical professionals how?
Funny how you used the word 'professional' yet you don't seem to think it's an actual profession, but a trade anyone with a mouth can adequately evaluates.

I suppose for people like you who clearly enjoy commenting on issues out of your own depth, it'd be difficult to understand why quality of professionals in terms of their professional knowledge and skills cannot be fully appreciated by outsiders. After all, I suppose, to you medical help is just like pop music - if you like the song, it must be good. Oh wait.
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Ali1302
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#88
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Aye, this bill is near perfect however there remains one issue which is the points given to individuals who are willing to invest £1,000,000 or more. These individuals would make up a very small percentage of migrants to the United Kingdom as a whole. I believe there should be a separate immigration scheme for investors and entrepreneurs in this country that could potentially create jobs and boost the British economy. I believe it should be a lot easier for such high income individuals to migrate into this country. Also, we should accept other forms of English proficiency tests other than the IELTS. Apart from that I would agree with everything else and the points system in general.
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Andy98
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#89
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#89
(Original post by Nigel Farage MEP)
I agree but the current immigration policy is linked with the EU; this bill will restrict unskilled workers form the EU being granted permission to work in Britain. No, I disagree, profit maximisation will happen at all points when the actual wage rate equals the market rage rate. Taking aggregate business figures there would be no benefit to having a lower market wage rate as the spending power of all employees in the economy would be reduced, therefore, it is desirable to have the highest possible market wage rate.

I do not accept the comparison of a bank clerk with an investment banker as both do different jobs, and the bank clerk is not included in the extended skills list. For all of the jobs in the extended BISOL in this bill, experience is advantageous, as is the case with nearly all jobs where the worker improves with hands-on experience. Academic training for all jobs is to provide a basis for the job with all specialist skills being acquired through on-the-job training or experience. This is most clearly seen with medicine where senior consultants are significantly better doctors than junior doctors in their first year.
Pretty sure that first sentence makes it illegal under EU law....

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Jammy Duel
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#90
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#90
(Original post by Little Toy Gun)
Funny how you used the word 'professional' yet you don't seem to think it's an actual profession, but a trade anyone with a mouth can adequately evaluates.

I suppose for people like you who clearly enjoy commenting on issues out of your own depth, it'd be difficult to understand why quality of professionals in terms of their professional knowledge and skills cannot be fully appreciated by outsiders. After all, I suppose, to you medical help is just like pop music - if you like the song, it must be good. Oh wait.
I guess if the only way to know how good anybody is of to be a part of their profession everybody makes uninformed decisions every day. I'm not a plumber, electrician, carpenter etc, so clearly if I were to get in a plumber, electrician, carpenter etc it would be absolutely dumb luck whether they were any good at their job and I'd be completely blind because there is obviously no information out there, whether public or not, that could allow informed decisions

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Birchington
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#91
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#91
This is in cessation.
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