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    (Original post by Henry27)
    as far as the venison hare and rabbit goes they are culled to prevent overbreeding which would cause them problems so the meat from them is actually a waste product of environmental protection and conservation (either way those animals are going to die why is it wrong to eat them?)

    in terms of why eat meat at all i would contest that eating ethicly sourced meat and produce is better for the animals than not eating meat at all by the simple fact that 90%+ of all meat producing animals would simply never exist if we wernt going to eat them.

    please dont misunderstand me i find industrial farming practices abhorrent but when animals are kept humanely and dont suffer in any way there is no need to not have them on the menu.
    I don't really know much about venison, hare and rabbit and was talking more about farmed animals. However the fact that we need to cull them to prevent over breeding is pretty depressing, and probably humanity's fault anyway for removing all the natural predators from the area. Oh dear..

    I personally believe that it would be better for the animals to not exist in the first place, than to be dragged into existence for the sole purpose of being raised for slaughter (and having to undergo a lot of pain and fear in the process) but that's just my personal opinion on that one

    I think it's a matter of exploitation as well. Animals are sentient, they're not objects.. When a fox or a lion kills an animal, it's in the wild - it's a free animal that has had it's own free life up until that point. The way that humans do it is different - we take ownership over them that isn't rightfully ours and take it upon ourselves to create and destroy living beings for totally selfish reasons :/

    But yeah I mean.. I do get what you're saying. My Dad is not vegan, but he is very conscious about where the meat he buys comes from and... yeah it's cool I guess but it's just not for me
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    Right so, I watched the whole video, all 1;09;24 ( Ethereal, I had to use ; instead of : because of TSR's emoji thingy, so don't sue me ) of it. And I wouldn't say it's the most important speech I will ever hear in my life. Though I will say it has changed my perspective on things.

    I will say, however, the disgust tactic he was using had no effect on me. I don't care if an egg is really a chicken's period. Honey is a bee's vomit or that a glass of milk contains about one eye drop of cow pus. It's safe for consumption and it tastes good.

    The first graphic video did make me feel uneasy, that I won't lie about, the male baby chicks going into the grinder particularly.

    The thing that drew me most to what he was saying were the health benefits. Although he did say he's not saying to become a vegan for selfish reasons... the health bit of his speech was the only part that actually drew to me. Now obviously I'll have to go and check all those facts and figures myself, I don't expect his whole speech to be unbiased and maybe he wiggled a bit on his facts.

    He did convince me on the weird thing though. Like before the speech, i was like, lol wtf is this Quorn **** and all these vegan substitutes like soya and whatever the heck the have. Some weird stuff lol. But then he was like, how is that weird compared to when people like me get happy over a chicken breast on my plate, considering the amount of stuff that happened to that breast before it came to my plate.

    Overall I would like to give this whole vegan diet thing a go when I get to university. Why not now? Well the reason I simply don't have the time right now to be looking at what I want to eat, the alternatives etc. There's 10 and 1/2 weeks until my A2 exams start and to be honest I'm behind, which is my own fault. Also I think the only lifestyle change I can handle right now is more revising and less games. After my exams I'll definitely be doing some research on this topic.

    I definitely do not plan to go full vegan with no leather and stuff... Just diet wise. So sorry if that disappoints you.

    When I get to uni, I'll be living by myself and I'll be able to manage what I eat and stuff, so it'll be way easier. Right now I would have to kick up a big fuss and make everything more complicated at home than it already is. And it's complicated at home, trust me on that bit. It's the reason why I'm going to stay in university accommodation even though the uni i plan to go to is like a 40 minute train journey from my house.

    So overall, I'm not going to blink twice when I pour my milk into my coco pops nor will I particularly care when I bite into my meat sandwich that I'm probably having tomorrow either. What I'm saying is that this whole vegetarian/vegan thing seems appealing and when I get to university, I'll give it a go. If I don't like it, I'm back to being an omnivore. But if I do like it, then I don't see why I can't keep doing that.

    Thanks for linking the video RickmanAlways. I did keep an open mind while watching the video. It's gonna stay in my head for a few days now :lol:
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    (Original post by huddledapple)
    I don't really know much about venison, hare and rabbit and was talking more about farmed animals. However the fact that we need to cull them to prevent over breeding is pretty depressing, and probably humanity's fault anyway for removing all the natural predators from the area. Oh dear..

    I personally believe that it would be better for the animals to not exist in the first place, than to be dragged into existence for the sole purpose of being raised for slaughter (and having to undergo a lot of pain and fear in the process) but that's just my personal opinion on that one

    I think it's a matter of exploitation as well. Animals are sentient, they're not objects.. When a fox or a lion kills an animal, it's in the wild - it's a free animal that has had it's own free life up until that point. The way that humans do it is different - we take ownership over them that isn't rightfully ours and take it upon ourselves to create and destroy living beings for totally selfish reasons :/

    But yeah I mean.. I do get what you're saying. My Dad is not vegan, but he is very conscious about where the meat he buys comes from and... yeah it's cool I guess but it's just not for me
    Would you be comfortable with people eating meat as long as the meat in question was taken from a wild animal hunted in it's natural habitat, like predators in nature would?
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    I might watch it at a later point. I already agree we don't NEED to eat meat, but it's just soooo good. I would love it if I had the self control to go vegan or vegetarian but chicken is too good to simply stop eating. Although I have been trying to cut down, partly because it can be cheaper and partly because of greenhouse gases released from agriculture. I could never totally stop though.
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    We may not need eat meet but we do enjoy the taste and fulfillment brought by meat.
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    (Original post by AngryRedhead)
    Would you be comfortable with people eating meat as long as the meat in question was taken from a wild animal hunted in it's natural habitat, like predators in nature would?
    Yes! I know that there are many cultures around the world who actually NEED meat because they don't have all the other options like we do - cultures who actually hunt the animals in the wild (like legit hunting for FOOD that they NEED - NOT hunting and poaching for sport or clothes or whatever).

    The issue I have with animal farming is the farming part - mass producing living creatures...? And the abuse that the animals undergo behind closed doors is just devastating to me. It's exploitation and it's so, so cruel
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    (Original post by Axel Johann)
    Right so, I watched the whole video, all 1;09;24 ( Ethereal, I had to use ; instead of : because of TSR's emoji thingy, so don't sue me ) of it. And I wouldn't say it's the most important speech I will ever hear in my life. Though I will say it has changed my perspective on things.

    I will say, however, the disgust tactic he was using had no effect on me. I don't care if an egg is really a chicken's period. Honey is a bee's vomit or that a glass of milk contains about one eye drop of cow pus. It's safe for consumption and it tastes good.

    The first graphic video did make me feel uneasy, that I won't lie about, the male baby chicks going into the grinder particularly.

    The thing that drew me most to what he was saying were the health benefits. Although he did say he's not saying to become a vegan for selfish reasons... the health bit of his speech was the only part that actually drew to me. Now obviously I'll have to go and check all those facts and figures myself, I don't expect his whole speech to be unbiased and maybe he wiggled a bit on his facts.

    He did convince me on the weird thing though. Like before the speech, i was like, lol wtf is this Quorn **** and all these vegan substitutes like soya and whatever the heck the have. Some weird stuff lol. But then he was like, how is that weird compared to when people like me get happy over a chicken breast on my plate, considering the amount of stuff that happened to that breast before it came to my plate.

    Overall I would like to give this whole vegan diet thing a go when I get to university. Why not now? Well the reason I simply don't have the time right now to be looking at what I want to eat, the alternatives etc. There's 10 and 1/2 weeks until my A2 exams start and to be honest I'm behind, which is my own fault. Also I think the only lifestyle change I can handle right now is more revising and less games. After my exams I'll definitely be doing some research on this topic.

    I definitely do not plan to go full vegan with no leather and stuff... Just diet wise. So sorry if that disappoints you.

    When I get to uni, I'll be living by myself and I'll be able to manage what I eat and stuff, so it'll be way easier. Right now I would have to kick up a big fuss and make everything more complicated at home than it already is. And it's complicated at home, trust me on that bit. It's the reason why I'm going to stay in university accommodation even though the uni i plan to go to is like a 40 minute train journey from my house.

    So overall, I'm not going to blink twice when I pour my milk into my coco pops nor will I particularly care when I bite into my meat sandwich that I'm probably having tomorrow either. What I'm saying is that this whole vegetarian/vegan thing seems appealing and when I get to university, I'll give it a go. If I don't like it, I'm back to being an omnivore. But if I do like it, then I don't see why I can't keep doing that.

    Thanks for linking the video RickmanAlways. I did keep an open mind while watching the video. It's gonna stay in my head for a few days now :lol:

    Axel Johann welcome i know now that your vision has not been clouded and mind been shut by those who seek pleasure over life, (and I am really struggling trying to sound pretentious so i am going to stop before i fail even more)

    Sorry i really had to reply especially after you wrote like 10 paragraphs!
    The thing that sticks in my mind is how much evidence there is that our bodies are designed to eat vegetables and not animal products! With the whole intestinal length and teeth; well we would have evolved to have fangs if we did need to eat meat.
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    (Original post by RickmanAlways)
    It got your attention didn't it?
    You prefer taste over killing animals (dont forget your an animal too) who may not be able to do complicated mathematical sums but are smart enough to know that they are gonna be slaughtered and they try to run but they cant they call for help but there is none, baby cows are torn away from their mothers so we can drink the milk instead. Imagine if the roles were reversed! The whole world would be screaming THIS IS WRONG! because simply it is.
    Nature isnt pretty baby. Get used to it. That tiger or cow or cat or fish which could kill you wll eat you in half a second if it could.
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    (Original post by huddledapple)
    Yes! I know that there are many cultures around the world who actually NEED meat because they don't have all the other options like we do - cultures who actually hunt the animals in the wild (like legit hunting for FOOD that they NEED - NOT hunting and poaching for sport or clothes or whatever).

    The issue I have with animal farming is the farming part - mass producing living creatures...? And the abuse that the animals undergo behind closed doors is just devastating to me. It's exploitation and it's so, so cruel
    I agree with you wholeheartedly huddledapple it is horrible the abuse and suffering they go through.
    Imagine if we were born with a kill date on us, that kill date being placed before we were even born! It's disgusting the mass production and the exploitation.

    If i had a gun/spear/other weapon and i went and killed an animal lets say a deer for example-in the wild, i would use the WHOLE animal and it would take me a long time to eat the whole animal.

    (For the animals sake-being born to be killed and they are aware when they are killed they scream for help and get none, Etc. and no natural order if an animal is killed because I managed (managed being the key word) to kill it perhaps because it was slow or injured.)

    Because that is the natural order, and humans go against this order and the mass killings of these poor poor animals are a prime example.
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    Me when I accidentally eat something with animal products in it.
    (Note:i am trying to make this more light hearted as this is a very serious and horrible topic.)
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    (Original post by huddledapple)
    Yes! I know that there are many cultures around the world who actually NEED meat because they don't have all the other options like we do - cultures who actually hunt the animals in the wild (like legit hunting for FOOD that they NEED - NOT hunting and poaching for sport or clothes or whatever).

    The issue I have with animal farming is the farming part - mass producing living creatures...? And the abuse that the animals undergo behind closed doors is just devastating to me. It's exploitation and it's so, so cruel
    i completely agree with you that there is a great deal of cruelty and exploitation in the farming industry and it really is depressing to think about but it is not the only way that animals can be farmed and reared, look at it this way if 30% of the population were vegetarian and didnt buy meat and 30% of the population would only eat ethically sourced meat the farming industry would still favor production of unethical meat because that 40% just dont care,

    however if 20% of the population who weree vegetarian decided only to eat ethical meat then the 40% who dont care would be forced to eat ethically sourced meat because with 50% of the population demanding ethically sourced meat its more viable than unethical meat

    those are numbers im just pulling out of my arse however the point is that there is going to be a significant portion of the population are never going to care how their food is made and as long as those who do care keep becoming vegetarians then it simply makes the remainder who dont a larger majority of the meat eaters and thus reinforces unethical farming practices.

    so ultimately by becoming a vegetarian as opposed to a conscientious meat eater your strengthening the unethical meat industry
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    (Original post by Henry27)
    i completely agree with you that there is a great deal of cruelty and exploitation in the farming industry and it really is depressing to think about but it is not the only way that animals can be farmed and reared, look at it this way if 30% of the population were vegetarian and didnt buy meat and 30% of the population would only eat ethically sourced meat the farming industry would still favor production of unethical meat because that 40% just dont care,

    however if 20% of the population who weree vegetarian decided only to eat ethical meat then the 40% who dont care would be forced to eat ethically sourced meat because with 50% of the population demanding ethically sourced meat its more viable than unethical meat

    those are numbers im just pulling out of my arse however the point is that there is going to be a significant portion of the population are never going to care how their food is made and as long as those who do care keep becoming vegetarians then it simply makes the remainder who dont a larger majority of the meat eaters and thus reinforces unethical farming practices.

    so ultimately by becoming a vegetarian as opposed to a conscientious meat eater your strengthening the unethical meat industry
    What about unethical banks? Oil use? Are they not as important to have their own threads?
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    I love eating meat. Lamb is my favourite I think.
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    We don't need to but we want to.

    Why do you need to convince others most are respectful to what you believe then you come attack what they believe.
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    I won't be giving up meat anytime soon. While I don't need to eat it, I want to eat it.

    *enjoys a bacon, brie, lettuce and tomato sandwich*
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    (Original post by Henry27)
    i completely agree with you that there is a great deal of cruelty and exploitation in the farming industry and it really is depressing to think about but it is not the only way that animals can be farmed and reared, look at it this way if 30% of the population were vegetarian and didnt buy meat and 30% of the population would only eat ethically sourced meat the farming industry would still favor production of unethical meat because that 40% just dont care,

    however if 20% of the population who weree vegetarian decided only to eat ethical meat then the 40% who dont care would be forced to eat ethically sourced meat because with 50% of the population demanding ethically sourced meat its more viable than unethical meat

    those are numbers im just pulling out of my arse however the point is that there is going to be a significant portion of the population are never going to care how their food is made and as long as those who do care keep becoming vegetarians then it simply makes the remainder who dont a larger majority of the meat eaters and thus reinforces unethical farming practices.

    so ultimately by becoming a vegetarian as opposed to a conscientious meat eater your strengthening the unethical meat industry
    I totally get what you're saying - this is the exact argument that my Dad has to support eating meat as well. I mean.. for me personally, whether it's the logical thing or not, I literally just cannot eat meat. When I look at a meat product all I can think about is the animal that it came from and how they've been harmed and I really just cannot bring myself to eat it even if what you're saying is right. I think (and hope) that it won't work out like that though. I think it will be more of a gradual slide where more and more people just slowly move up the scale - so people who buy battery will eventually start buying free range and who buy free range will eventually not buy at all until eventually there is so little demand for animal products of any kind that it will start to disappear. (I have no idea if or when this will happen but I do think that it will someday - injustice never lasts forever as I mentioned in my first post here)
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    Being Vegan/Vegetarian was too much effort. Either there were too little options or the options were bad. Plus tea+cows' milk is essential to survival.


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    Titans don't NEED to eat humans, but we just taste too damn good
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    I'm a vegetarian but I don't consume milk (almond milk is the best thing ever). Just eggs and cheese but not regularly. I try to not consume any all together but it's quite impossible seeing as I'm from a strict household. I'm hoping to become fully vegan when I move out.
    I don't understand the meat appeal but I don't judge people for what they eat however, I wish people knew or in this case cared about the dangers and implications of the meat and dairy industry. Not just to us but to the animals and the environment.
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    (Original post by Henry27)
    i completely agree with you that there is a great deal of cruelty and exploitation in the farming industry and it really is depressing to think about but it is not the only way that animals can be farmed and reared, look at it this way if 30% of the population were vegetarian and didnt buy meat and 30% of the population would only eat ethically sourced meat the farming industry would still favor production of unethical meat because that 40% just dont care,

    however if 20% of the population who weree vegetarian decided only to eat ethical meat then the 40% who dont care would be forced to eat ethically sourced meat because with 50% of the population demanding ethically sourced meat its more viable than unethical meat

    those are numbers im just pulling out of my arse however the point is that there is going to be a significant portion of the population are never going to care how their food is made and as long as those who do care keep becoming vegetarians then it simply makes the remainder who dont a larger majority of the meat eaters and thus reinforces unethical farming practices.

    so ultimately by becoming a vegetarian as opposed to a conscientious meat eater your strengthening the unethical meat industry
    How does one ethically murder an animal? It's impossible.
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    No, we don't, but we still do, which is why I found the hysteria surrounding the meat adulteration scandal slightly hilarious. Yeah, they didn't tell us they were cutting corners. But you don't get pissed off at your landlord cutting corners by making you live in a flat that's falling apart... which is slightly more cause for concern.
 
 
 
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