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What should be done for the steel industry in Port Talbot? Watch

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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    Try looking back a few pages, the welfare costs, even when you throw in lost tax revenues, is actually a tiny amount, even if the whole steel industry goes under, and all it requires is a savings of a couple of percent on steel prices for the 12m tonnes of steel to be net cheaper getting it elsewhere.
    I've heard both labour and conservative politicians talking about a 1.5 billion cost of it is closed.

    Don't forget there are many more jobs outside the plant than there are inside reliant on it


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    (Original post by paul514)
    I've heard both labour and conservative politicians talking about a 1.5 billion cost of it is closed.

    Don't forget there are many more jobs outside the plant than there are inside reliant on it


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    You're still looking at a very small price delta, especially for public sector steel use.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    You're still looking at a very small price delta, especially for public sector steel use.
    All I'm saying is they say it's 1000 -1500 million compared to losing 1 million a day it's not a big deal to privatise it for a few months


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    (Original post by paul514)
    All I'm saying is they say it's 1000 -1500 million compared to losing 1 million a day it's not a big deal to privatise it for a few months


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    You think if it's nationalised it will only be for a few months? They won't be able to get rid of the damn thing for hears at least, and that's 1m a day before considering the knock on from either public sector bodies paying above the market rate for steel, directly increasing the cost, or private bodies paying above the market rate and costing tax revenues.

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    I'm not a fan of Trump(for the most part I think he's a raving lunatic) but his approach to dealing with the Chinese is spot on.

    We should be imposing tariffs to cancel out their steel dumping. We don't want to find ourselves in a position where we can only rely on others for something as important as steel.
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    (Original post by JamesN88)
    I'm not a fan of Trump(for the most part I think he's a raving lunatic) but his approach to dealing with the Chinese is spot on.

    We should be imposing tariffs to cancel out their steel dumping. We don't want to find ourselves in a position where we can only rely on others for something as important as steel.
    You do realise we already import about half our steel, so we already are reliant on others, much like we are with most things, I would like to see Britain get by on just domestic food production, especially without *****ing about it, for instance.

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    (Original post by Bill_Gates)
    What should be done for the steel industry in Port Talbot?

    I personally think they should close it down.
    - We can't afford to nationalize it, the UK government is broke.
    - It's a low value added product
    - 80% of the UK economy is now in the service sector (i don't agree with it but it is what it is).
    - We have close allies who produce steel plus China has been very efficient in the area for years.
    - Putting on tariffs for steel might lead to a trade war we might lose out on in other areas of the economy i.e car sales to China for example.

    Your views?
    The UK government isn't broke. It's wealthy enough to spend 11.3 billion a year on overseas aid. Start there. Cut it to zero.
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    (Original post by Jammy Duel)
    You do realise we already import about half our steel, so we already are reliant on others, much like we are with most things, I would like to see Britain get by on just domestic food production, especially without *****ing about it, for instance.

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    Hence my use of the world only in that post. As an island we will always rely on imports but we should IMO be as self sufficient as reasonably possible.
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    (Original post by I Don't Care)
    Nationalising it is against EU law. Realistically, I can't see a future buyer making it profitable. The state should take over the pension fund and invest in retraining the workers in the area. The factory should be closed.
    Well, the answer to EU law is pretty simple. Vote OUT.
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    Nothing should be done. I don't understand this mentality. Sometimes businesses can't compete or they become obsolete, but this is the first time people are demanding the government to step in to prop them up.

    If a business fails, it fails.
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    (Original post by JordanL_)
    Nothing should be done. I don't understand this mentality. Sometimes businesses can't compete or they become obsolete, but this is the first time people are demanding the government to step in to prop them up.

    If a business fails, it fails.
    If you follow that logic then the banks should have all been left to go under as well. Especially RBS which didn't have enough cash to last until the end of the day at one point.

    I know the banking system is vastly more important but the principle is the same.
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    (Original post by JamesN88)
    If you follow that logic then the banks should have all been left to go under as well. Especially RBS which didn't have enough cash to last until the end of the day at one point.

    I know the banking system is vastly more important but the principle is the same.
    The banks failed because of mismanagement and a global recession. The steel industry is failing because they're being outcompeted.
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    (Original post by JordanL_)
    The banks failed because of mismanagement and a global recession. The steel industry is failing because they're being outcompeted.
    If a business fails, it fails.
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    (Original post by Howard)
    The UK government isn't broke. It's wealthy enough to spend 11.3 billion a year on overseas aid. Start there. Cut it to zero.
    Well said then leave the eu and save even more


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    (Original post by Howard)
    Well, the answer to EU law is pretty simple. Vote OUT.
    The EU would impose tariffs on steel products that gets too much state aid whether Britain is in the EU or not. Half the cars made in Britain are exported to the EU.
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    (Original post by JamesN88)
    If you follow that logic then the banks should have all been left to go under as well. Especially RBS which didn't have enough cash to last until the end of the day at one point.

    I know the banking system is vastly more important but the principle is the same.
    You make the key point "the banking system is vastly more important".

    27,000 people lost their jobs when Woolworths went bust in 2008. I don't recall anyone suggesting it should be nationalised.
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    (Original post by SmashConcept)
    What about the UK Jobs that rely on cheap steel?
    It would be a temporary measure until someone if anyone wants to buy it letting go of that plant would be a disaster for the already weak welsh private sector
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    (Original post by nulli tertius)
    You make the key point "the banking system is vastly more important".

    27,000 people lost their jobs when Woolworths went bust in 2008. I don't recall anyone suggesting it should be nationalised.
    That's a lot of jobs - but geographically dispersed and comparatively easy to replace, all those old branches of woolies are now let out to other retail chains now afaik. Experienced retail workers have other retailers to go work for.

    Steelworks often live in virtual single industry towns - if the steelworks goes you end up with a lot of people stuck in a town that doesn't really have any reason to exist anymore.

    (Original post by JordanL_)
    The banks failed because of mismanagement and a global recession. The steel industry is failing because they're being outcompeted.
    The USA, which is often held up as an example of red blooded capitalism, has introduced a tariff on Chinese steel which they claim is being dumped to improperly gain market share.
    http://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-impo...rts-1456878180
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    (Original post by Maker)
    The EU would impose tariffs on steel products that gets too much state aid whether Britain is in the EU or not. Half the cars made in Britain are exported to the EU.
    Half the countries in the EU are illegally propping up their steel industries in the face of Chinese overproduction. Only the Brits are daft enough to follow the rules, sit on their hands, and see their industries decimated.

    If the EU was worth a toss it would be imposing tarrifs on Chinese steel like the US is doing. Is the US car industry hurt as a result? No. It's booming both domestically and on an export front.
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    (Original post by Howard)
    Half the countries in the EU are illegally propping up their steel industries in the face of Chinese overproduction. Only the Brits are daft enough to follow the rules, sit on their hands, and see their industries decimated.

    If the EU was worth a toss it would be imposing tarrifs on Chinese steel like the US is doing. Is the US car industry hurt as a result? No. It's booming both domestically and on an export front.
    Tarrifs are the consumers of the country imposing them giving taxes to their government, its basically a hidden tax pretending to be protecting jobs.

    If Americans want to pay extra taxes, let them, I don't want to pay extra taxes so I don't want tariffs.

    Its stupid using taxpayers' money to prop up a failing industry when there are lots of emerging industries that could benefit a lot more with more potential for growth and employment.
 
 
 
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